114 replies to this topic

[Pasidon]

Obama, Joe Donnallie, and a heck of a lot of other Democrats are pushing their health care again. I can't believe this, they were voted against for their socialistic healthcare plan, and yet again it's being pushed. I was just annoyed but after listening to the Peter heck show on this:



Heck is right... this is unethical. The democrats are pretty much saying, "Screw democracy, let's make this plan happen, even if the people clearly don't want it." This plan was created to keep the democrats the rulers over healthcare forever; a plan that would make the democrats the only political power in healthcare. It wasn't made for the people, by the people, but against the people for the federal government by the federal government. Peter Heck explains this so well, it'll make Biden want to spit on the Democrats even. If you're still out there making fun of Bush for saying stupid stuff, then you should really turn your heads and look at what the new guy is doing. I've got a bad feeling if Obama's crusade against democracy succeeds.

[Vortigern]

Yes, how on earth could free healthcare be considered a move 'for the people'? I hate to generalise, but you guys are idiots. The NHS is the best thing to have happened to this country in the last 60 years.

[Allathar]

The problem is not the free healthcare itself, but rather how it's being implemented.

[Beowulf]

I could use some free healthcare seeing that I don't fucking have any. Implementation aside, I will never understand how providing a basic service to all of your citizens is considered negative. It's not going to destroy the industry; it's providing help for those who cannot afford it. Given the choice of free vs paid, I'd still pay if I can afford it - it's still worth buying.

[Pasidon]

Maybe you don't know the details here Vort... The Universal Healthcare proposals are all free healthcare systems. But there's always backlash... the Democrats having the worst with ObamaCare threatening to create a European Welfare State that's no better than communists waiting in line for 5 hours for a piece of lettuce. We we would all be paying the same, not discriminating against the rich. Oh well, we can't do that, the rich are people too, right? It's all complicated jargon, but at least even the liberals are even trying to pass a plan that includes more reasonable plans that won't downgrade the quality of our healthcare system.

Just listened to Heck's podcast after that one...



If you really wanna' know why this plan stinks, listen to that. But beyond the facts of what it does, the Dems are going against tons of ethical walls just to get their dead plan into the system. The people voted against it, therefore the people don't want it. Obama doesn't care about what people think obviously.

Edited by {IP}Pasidon, 04 March 2010 - 08:53 PM.

[Vortigern]

Well, whatever. I don't really care. I'm not planning on moving to America any time soon. What annoys me about this whole affair is that, two years from now, when Obama is beginning his run for re-election, people will say he didn't come through on his promises of universal healthcare, and will completely ignore the fact that he tried and people turned on him for being 'socialist'.

[duke_Qa]

Good that they aren't giving up. I'd like to see some progressive changes now and then over in the states. Or else they'll just end up like the conservative/fundamentalist muslim nations, stuck in their glory days while the rest of the world is more pragmatic and moves forth.

How someone can complain about a government making sure ones citizens are getting the best care they can is beyond me. If you pay taxes you have certain rights and privileges, and free healthcare is one of those in my opinion. you could practically compare it to slavery in my opinion.

Edited by duke_Qa, 04 March 2010 - 09:14 PM.

[Pasidon]

That's a bit shameless. I call Barak Obama an enemy of freedom. I don't give a flying care for wacko terrorists with their bomb threats and dumb books that give them the illusion of rights for attacking Americans. The biggest threats to this nation are men who think liberty is a tool, and Obama is a radical who believes nothing less. And you're right Vort; you don't care, so what does it matter. We're facing the biggest threat this nation has had in a good while, and people still supporting him since they avoid the facts is what makes this enemy a threat.

[Vortigern]

Pasidon, you're hilarious. A liberal president as the enemy of freedom. I hope you realise that that is an inherent contradiction in terms. Although I'd be inclined to agree that he's the biggest threat to America in a good long while. Iraq? Bullshit. Bin Laden? Hiding in a cave in Who-gives-a-shit-istan, wondering what's going on in the real world. China? An economic power. Bush? No longer in office. So that leaves us with Obama, a man who seeks to slightly alter the traditional American world-view of "We're the best, we always have been, and anyone who disagrees is a communist." How very dare he? Change? You must be joking!

[Pasidon]

Either you're ignoring the fact he wants the US to adopt a Government Dominating philosophy or you haven't seen it. That second podcast is all a sane person needs to rationalize that Obama would throw you off a building just to make him that idol of change, like even you said Vort. Most people here hate the government because they withhold lots of our freedoms, well that's what Obama wants, plus nine.

[Nertea]

I have my healthcare and my freedom here just fine .

[Puppeteer]

How CAN you be so ignorant?

This plan was created to keep the democrats the rulers over healthcare forever;

Labour created our NHS but neither have they been the only party to parade it nor, as everyone knows, are they the only one to want to maintain or even reform it - one need only look at the Conservative electoral posters to see Cameron's commitment to the NHS.

against the people

Universal healthcare, overlooking the wealth of individuals? Definitely a move against the people, good call Pasidon.


Obviously you value your biased media (not quite a tautology - your media is biased even for media ) too much - I'm aware of the US TV ads that slammed the NHS with scaremongering accusations. But none of it's true - every Briton is proud of the NHS, without exception, and no one wants to abolish or privatise it. Nor do we wait 5 hours for a lettuce.

If this is rejected again, Obama should move to Canada or here - I'm sure either country would appreciate him far more than the US do, as a whole.

Edited by Puppeteer, 04 March 2010 - 10:05 PM.

[Pasidon]

You're ignoring the facts too Puppet. Making us pay less will ultimately be making us pay more. The insurance companies aren't doing what Obama wants for a good reason: it's evil. You'll be getting some political paper worker 500 miles away dictating if your sickness is even worth being treated, and people with major illnesses, first off. But our premiums will skyrocket because we're not paying for it anymore. Like Heck says, if we're not paying for it, it will ultimately cost more. Maybe Omaba thinks he found the magic loophole in funding, but he's a dummy if he thinks that.

[Mathijs]

Well darn, Pasidon. Here I was thinking you got a little smarter over the last month or so.

I like how you try to demonise European healthcare systems, too.

[MT]

No, he hasn't found a magical loophole. He is cutting things like the space program which aren't needed as much.

[Hostile]

*Cracks Knuckles* Noble attempt, but lousy communication. You're just spewing talking points Pas...

Yes, how on earth could free healthcare be considered a move 'for the people'? I hate to generalise, but you guys are idiots. The NHS is the best thing to have happened to this country in the last 60 years.

Have you noted that the government health care option has not only been removed, but was also not free to start with? Also if the individual didn't have health care they would be fined on an escalating tier up to $2500 per year as the program goes on. That is why the concern is people will simply pay the fine instead of paying for healthcare because it's cheaper. It is actually calculated that some % will pay the fine in the budget aspect of the bill. I don't see "free" anywhere in the proposition.

I could use some free healthcare seeing that I don't fucking have any. Implementation aside, I will never understand how providing a basic service to all of your citizens is considered negative. It's not going to destroy the industry; it's providing help for those who cannot afford it. Given the choice of free vs paid, I'd still pay if I can afford it - it's still worth buying.

The proposed bill does not give free healthcare, do some simple research. You don't believe everything you are told here right? You still have to pay for healthcare, but you also will be fined if you don't pay for healthcare like auto insurance.

Well, whatever. I don't really care. I'm not planning on moving to America any time soon. What annoys me about this whole affair is that, two years from now, when Obama is beginning his run for re-election, people will say he didn't come through on his promises of universal healthcare, and will completely ignore the fact that he tried and people turned on him for being 'socialist'.

Listen, if you don't like America it's ok. Than we don't like you either. No one asked you to move to the US, and we'd be glad to see Obama move to Canada. Keep socialism on your side of the pond thank you. We simply don't want it. We can see the drain on your European nations economies. Now who in America would want a welfare state? We're close enough to having one as it is with all these public entitlements. Whatever happened to survival of the fittest?

Good that they aren't giving up. I'd like to see some progressive changes now and then over in the states. Or else they'll just end up like the conservative/fundamentalist muslim nations, stuck in their glory days while the rest of the world is more pragmatic and moves forth.

How someone can complain about a government making sure ones citizens are getting the best care they can is beyond me. If you pay taxes you have certain rights and privileges, and free healthcare is one of those in my opinion. you could practically compare it to slavery in my opinion.

Honestly I think the word "progressive" is an oxymoron. There's nothing progessive about creating a larger government and demanding people submit to such a beast when it is as flawed as people are simply because it's ran by people. America is not ending up like a muslim nation. Stop trying to pass your brainwashing onto the "States." We simply don't want a socialist government. If you don't like it than don't bother us. Why not go tell Japan about their evil capitalist ways. They are the worlds 2nd largest economy.

Pasidon, you're hilarious. A liberal president as the enemy of freedom. I hope you realise that that is an inherent contradiction in terms. Although I'd be inclined to agree that he's the biggest threat to America in a good long while. Iraq? Bullshit. Bin Laden? Hiding in a cave in Who-gives-a-shit-istan, wondering what's going on in the real world. China? An economic power. Bush? No longer in office. So that leaves us with Obama, a man who seeks to slightly alter the traditional American world-view of "We're the best, we always have been, and anyone who disagrees is a communist." How very dare he? Change? You must be joking!

I agree with Pas. I also have to say that Americans could care less to take advice from "yesterdays news" (Europe)when it comes to being a world superpower. Europe doesn't even have enough of a military to invade itself. Thank you very much on that one.

How CAN you be so ignorant?

This plan was created to keep the democrats the rulers over healthcare forever;

Labour created our NHS but neither have they been the only party to parade it nor, as everyone knows, are they the only one to want to maintain or even reform it - one need only look at the Conservative electoral posters to see Cameron's commitment to the NHS.

against the people

Universal healthcare, overlooking the wealth of individuals? Definitely a move against the people, good call Pasidon.


Obviously you value your biased media (not quite a tautology - your media is biased even for media ) too much - I'm aware of the US TV ads that slammed the NHS with scaremongering accusations. But none of it's true - every Briton is proud of the NHS, without exception, and no one wants to abolish or privatise it. Nor do we wait 5 hours for a lettuce.

If this is rejected again, Obama should move to Canada or here - I'm sure either country would appreciate him far more than the US do, as a whole.

I agree media is biased, anything a liberal says/does is gold. Anything a conservative says/does is a farce. You should really actually LIVE in the US before you make the claims you do.

Well darn, Pasidon. Here I was thinking you got a little smarter over the last month or so.

I like how you try to demonise European healthcare systems, too.

I can guarentee you one thing, you won't see me flying to Europe to get any healthcare. Yikes! You keep your healthcare over there and we'll keep ours here and do our best to take care of those Europeans who fly here for better healthcare service. I swear we'll do our best to keep up with the workload. OR maybe we should deny Europeans from coming to the US for healthcare they can't get in Europe/ or have to wait too long to receive?

[Pasidon]

I always try to avoid the text wall, but whatever works. And I would agree with you on some levels Hostile on the European Healthcare System, but I was gearing more toward that lousy Communist healthcare that politicians always classify as a 'European Welfare State'.

Finally though... hasn't been much controversy lately. About time we get some crackling back.

[Rob38]

Now who in America would want a welfare state? We're close enough to having one as it is with all these public entitlements. Whatever happened to survival of the fittest?

Interesting... at least your argument is consistent.

I personally do not mind a public options as I do believe many can benefit from it. It really sucks when you you become unemployed and your healthcare benefits are cut too. Also, I believe we end up paying more when we have uninsured Americans. If you're uninsured, you will not go to the doctor for minor injuries and sicknesses that could easily be cured at a low price. Instead, people wait until the symptoms are so severe that they have to be sent to a hospital. Hosiptal are by no means cost effective. And without insurance, there is no way in hell that most will be able to pay for hospital costs. These costs have to be paid somehow, and it is not cheap.

Oh well, we can just create a system where we have healthcare for the rich and then healthcare for everyone else. If that's what Americans want, then so be it. My family has been fortunate to have health insurance during serious illnesses in the family, and I could only imagine how difficult it must be for Americans without health insurance to deal with major illnesses in the family. I truly do believe that if you give someone the opportunity, they will make their life and situation better and get out of the "welfare state". Of course, there will always be some that will "cheat" the system, but most probably would rather not be in the system if they could afford some form of health insurance.

[Námo]

... two years from now, when Obama is beginning his run for re-election, people will say ...

Whatever happened to the “HOPE” boy?
Teleprompt this: “You can’t stop this, OTP.”
You’re gonna feel it when I vote, boy
Cuz you gotta go, ya gotta go, yeah
...
Fool me once, shame on me, shame on we
United States of America
Fool me twice? It’s not gonna happen, G
One term president, OTP

[text by WOLVERINES]

Edited by Námo, 05 March 2010 - 10:07 AM.

[Mathijs]

I can guarentee you one thing, you won't see me flying to Europe to get any healthcare. Yikes! You keep your healthcare over there and we'll keep ours here and do our best to take care of those Europeans who fly here for better healthcare service. I swear we'll do our best to keep up with the workload. OR maybe we should deny Europeans from coming to the US for healthcare they can't get in Europe/ or have to wait too long to receive?

And we'll just shake our communist heads at all the Americans dying because they're too poor to afford to go see a doctor, all the while maintaining their idea that they live in a first world country.