77 replies to this topic

[Tropical Bob]

The only mention of the Strike-class that I've ever read was in the kids books with the Triclops and Jedi Prince fiasco (Glove of Darth Vader, etc.). It's only mentioned as a Strike cruiser (Though maybe not capitalized), but the image is of the Strike-class.

[Kaleb Graff]

But those are A. Not really canon (I read them a while back. Han and Leia married on Yavin? ), and B. After Endor. The Strike was introduced before Endor, as it's mentioned in Imperial Sourcebook.

[Phoenix Rising]

Death Star called Motti's first post, the Ion Storm, at least a "Strike cruiser" - not sure about "Strike-class" exactly. You do the math on his age and that puts it way too early. I have it internally placed in 2.5 ABY and don't plan on moving it more than a half-year either way; it's about as modern a design as the Empire gets.

Also, you're referring to the Coruscant Nights series for the Lancer? I wasn't aware those were kids novels if so.

[Kaleb Graff]

It's probably more in the Young Adult category, but it's only 350 pages in paperback, which suggests that it's a younger-aimed novel. Either way, that seems like a mistake, and no reason to move the Lancer. As for the Ion Storm, I think it's an equivalent. Or it can be ignored. Pretend it's a typo.

[Tropical Bob]

But those are A. Not really canon (I read them a while back. Han and Leia married on Yavin? ), and B. After Endor. The Strike was introduced before Endor, as it's mentioned in Imperial Sourcebook.

Yeah, I know. They're just the only reference other than PR that I've seen a Strike Cruiser in.

[SpardaSon21]

I seem to remember something about Thrawn having a hand in the development of the Lancer as a way to combat Rebel fighter superiority, or am I simply wrong?

[Zeta1127]

On the Lancer and Thrawn, the Lancer was developed after Yavin to counter Trench Run Disease, Thrawn just brought it back into wide-spread use to counter the New Republic's primarily starfighter-based planetary garrisons, another fine example of Thrawn's tactical genius!

Edited by Zeta1127, 15 November 2010 - 02:14 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

It's probably more in the Young Adult category, but it's only 350 pages in paperback, which suggests that it's a younger-aimed novel.

Maybe it's just a cheap way to get four books from the substance of three. Hm, I just realized both novels are by Reaves. Perhaps someone should keep him away from the technical stuff?

I hate to complain about people posting, but maybe we should return to the topic (my fault for going off on a tangent). If you want to discuss something else though, just start a thread.

[SpardaSon21]

tactical genius.

"So there my squadron was, about to attack that Imperial convoy, when these frigates pop out of nowhere and annihilate everyone but me. I barely got out of there alive."

"Where'd those frigates come from?"

"I don't know; they must have been the work of a tactical gen-"

"THRAAAAAAAAWWNNN!!!"

[Kaleb Graff]

It's probably wise. Some authors shouldn't be allowed anywhere near technical stuff. Actually most shouldn't. In Invincible there was an 8 kilometer SSD.
Back on topic, the consensus is that the Tector is a battleship version of the Impstar, which is more of a hybrid assault ship/carrier/battleship. The closest I can come to it is the Tarawa-class, before the guns were removed, or possibly the Kiev-class.
Thrawn probably made more extensive use of Lancers because the bugs had been worked out by that time. From what I've read, early Lancers had horrendous readiness rates, and thus weren't a huge success. By 9 ABY the bugs were probably worked out.

[feld]

Back on topic, the consensus is that the Tector is a battleship version of the Impstar, which is more of a hybrid assault ship/carrier/battleship. The closest I can come to it is the Tarawa-class, before the guns were removed, or possibly the Kiev-class.

Yup. That would be the general consensus.

As a further consideration for its "star-destroyer" classification...perhaps anything with "star-" in the front of it just means "capable of independent operations beyond its home sector". In that context, perhaps TECTOR is just a ship-to-ship combat specialist type. That would certainly be suggested by the only thing we know about her: no large ventral hangar bay. Makes perfect sense. Even as early as the waning years of the Republic there are indications (IIRC in Outbound Flight) that Palpatine had some foreknowledge of an impending extra-galactic threat. It would stand to reason that he and Vader built up the Imperial Navy first to maintain order/unify the galaxy and then to combat whatever the threat was.

v/r
feld

P.S. The "dagger-hull" is pretty much already explained in the canon and differentiated from any "star-" designated ships. The Kuat "regional defense fleets" in the ICS books were listed as the direct line predecessor to the "dagger-hull" ships that Rothana and Kuat built for the Republic/Empire.

[Phoenix Rising]

I don't think you even need something as esoteric as the pending extra-galactic invasion to justify the TSD; it'd be pretty devastating against almost anything the Separatist Remnant can throw at you in starship combat. You'd really only need to fear the Bulwark-class or the Subjugator-class. The CIS is also pretty bad at fielding bombers and doesn't seem to make much use of combat transports, so no need to employ a fighter screen against something that can't hurt you.

[Tropical Bob]

The extra shielding and armor would seem to be useful against the Yuuzhan Vong weaponry, though. The Coralskipper swarms (Like what easily incinerated the Star Destroyer sent to Helska IV) would be something to fear, but with such extremely effective dedicated anti-fighter ships that existed by that time, the Tector might have actually been quite an effective ship.

[Phoenix Rising]

How much intel did Palpatine really have on them though? Not to get off-topic again, but the YV seemed to lack big guns, so I'd think battlecruiser spam would be a better strategy. I guess he did that too...

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 14 June 2010 - 03:29 AM.

[Ghostrider]

If you compare Health, Shields ad damage potential of the guns and the impressive missile system on the Tector II, it is equivalent to a 200% strength ISD-I (my ultimate benchmark).

In comparison, even with the fighter screen, the ISD-II only just hits the 150% rating. This makes the Tector upgrade pretty damn scary as fast battleships, and although they lack a true fighter screen you would have to be a pretty bad commander to let this monster get hurt, unless you are stupid enough to just have Strike Cruisers for an escort.

The stats speak for themselves
The ISD Mark is my key benchmark variable for comparing units in a campaign scenario.

ISD-I: 100% ISD Mark
ISD-II: 154%
ISD-III: 199%
ISD_IV: 316%

Tec-I: 81%
Tec-II: 193%
Tec-III: 305%
Tec-IV: 439%

The only real benefit of the ISD vs the Tector is role variability, as the ISD-class is more versatile against mixed fleets and smaller units. But for taking down space stations and anything bigger than a cruiser, the upgraded Tectors are second to none - but they have to be part of a battle fleet. On their own they are... Targets

This probably explains why the Empire pushed the Imperial class, given that a single ISD-I is a self-sufficient fleet.

[Zeta1127]

It is all about the role of the ship. The ISD is very versatile design, the kind of ship that was needed after the Clone Wars, but the TSD has a much more specific role, to combat the enemy's battleships and larger ships. Between the CIS and foreseen Yuuzhan Vong invasion, the Tector-class was a justified ship if properly supported. As PR mentions, the CIS rarely used bombers, and the bombers they did have where poorly used at best. The Tector-class, with sufficient anti-fighter support, almost certainly would have been a viable ship for countering with the Yuuzhan Vong capital ships and the mighty Worldships! It really is a shame that many ships like the Tector-class Star Destroyer, the Strident-class Star Defender, the New Class Modernization Program classes, and other ships have been so poorly depicted in the EU.

[Phoenix Rising]

Imperial I created- pinnacle of destroyer design, barring firing arc problems and weak spots in the armour.

I don't think the weapon coverage is a problem so much as a design choice. If the enemy is directly in front, all weapons can be brought to bear. It's exploitable, yes, but that's the trade-off. Most starships cannot bring all weapons to bear in any arc.

It really is a shame that many ships like the Tector-class Star Destroyer, the Strident-class Star Defender, the New Class Modernization Program classes, and other ships have been so poorly depicted in the EU.

We'll work on it. The sad part about the Black Fleet Crisis is that it's too small on a galactic scale to turn into a viable campaign.

[Kaleb Graff]

It really is a shame that many ships like the Tector-class Star Destroyer, the Strident-class Star Defender, the New Class Modernization Program classes, and other ships have been so poorly depicted in the EU.

We'll work on it. The sad part about the Black Fleet Crisis is that it's too small on a galactic scale to turn into a viable campaign.

You sure about that? If you set it up right, with plenty of deep-space battlegrounds, it could be really interesting. And nothing with a Super-class SD involved is minor.

[Tropical Bob]

We'll work on it. The sad part about the Black Fleet Crisis is that it's too small on a galactic scale to turn into a viable campaign.

You sure about that? If you set it up right, with plenty of deep-space battlegrounds, it could be really interesting. And nothing with a Super-class SD involved is minor.

Sure, the Koornacht Cluster was large if you include deep space, but even with that in consideration, the Cluster is still a small area in the great scheme of things. And I'm assuming that's what PR is meaning. Especially since, if I remember correctly, there were only one or two skirmishes between the New Republic and the Yevetha.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 01 July 2010 - 07:27 AM.