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#21 Pasidon

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 07:59 PM

Sure, but we could be luckier than this... or replace luck with intelligence.

Swap the Higher-ranked player with U.S.A. and the lower ranked with Afghanistan or Iran, and I myself see little difference.


If this war is even remotely unbalanced as an online strategy game, I'm rage quitting before Afghanistan spams more Ivans.

#22 Taralom

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 10:49 PM

If this war is even remotely unbalanced as an online strategy game, I'm rage quitting before Afghanistan spams more Ivans.

Fuck yeah!
You guys got the oil, the weapons and friggin' nukes. Combine those three with the fact that the world fears the U.S. and tries to stay on it's good side (i.e. the Dutch Parliament) and you've got yourself a foe that knows no equal. However, because of the fact that you take oil and other resources that do not belong to your nation, groups like Al Qaeda keep on popping out of the ground like weed. And because of the fact that the former U.S. president tried to get his name all over the history books, Dutch, French, Brittish and of god knows how many other nationalities soldiers die in battle. What does the average european tax payer get out of this expensive war? Nothing. Zero. Nill. Okay, we remain friends with the U.S., but I don't really see the point in that. What does the U.S. citizen get out of this war? Cheap gas, to keep on driving around in those HUV's.

Sorry for ranting on about this. Please don't take this personal.
If the above post offended you in any way,
please take note that, until further notice, I don't care, so get lost.

#23 Mathijs

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 11:25 PM

Taxes go up with the standard of living. If you think that was the same a hundred or so years ago, you need a history lesson or twenty.

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#24 Imagine

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 02:04 AM

Taxes go up with the standard of living. If you think that was the same a hundred or so years ago, you need a history lesson or twenty.


It's settled then. Pay your taxes of horrible, horrible cholera.

Edited by Imagine, 31 July 2010 - 02:04 AM.

They say the future is only as predictable as the past..... Probably because they're the same thing.

#25 Romanul

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:43 AM

Taxes go up with the standard of living. If you think that was the same a hundred or so years ago, you need a history lesson or twenty.


Agree.

#26 Hostile

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:04 AM

If this war is even remotely unbalanced as an online strategy game, I'm rage quitting before Afghanistan spams more Ivans.

Fuck yeah!
You guys got the oil, the weapons and friggin' nukes. Combine those three with the fact that the world fears the U.S. and tries to stay on it's good side (i.e. the Dutch Parliament) and you've got yourself a foe that knows no equal. However, because of the fact that you take oil and other resources that do not belong to your nation, groups like Al Qaeda keep on popping out of the ground like weed. And because of the fact that the former U.S. president tried to get his name all over the history books, Dutch, French, Brittish and of god knows how many other nationalities soldiers die in battle. What does the average european tax payer get out of this expensive war? Nothing. Zero. Nill. Okay, we remain friends with the U.S., but I don't really see the point in that. What does the U.S. citizen get out of this war? Cheap gas, to keep on driving around in those HUV's.

Sorry for ranting on about this. Please don't take this personal.

So where is all this oil you proposed we have? Iraqi oil goes into the international pool as does all world oil. Do you think the US is getting some kind of subsidized price on oil? No it isn't happening. We don't get cheaper oil because we have troops in Iraq. But if someone repeats a lie long enough, than people will believe it and repeat it.

We are not getting cheaper gas here in the US because of the war in Iraq. Got it?

#27 Taralom

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 01:37 PM

So where is all this oil you proposed we have? Iraqi oil goes into the international pool as does all world oil. Do you think the US is getting some kind of subsidized price on oil? No it isn't happening. We don't get cheaper oil because we have troops in Iraq. But if someone repeats a lie long enough, than people will believe it and repeat it.

We are not getting cheaper gas here in the US because of the war in Iraq. Got it?

Okay, if you say so, I'll accept this statement for now. Then answer me this: Why have you gone to Iraq in the first place? :p
If there was nothing to gain, why would someone start a war?
It was not to annihilate enemies in the War On Terrorism, that's for sure, since no nucleair bomb has ever been found in Iraq. There had to be a reason for sending a multinational force of troops. If it wasn't for oil, what was the reason?


quick edit: just want to stress another time that I do not wish to offend anyone here.

Edited by Taralom, 31 July 2010 - 01:39 PM.

If the above post offended you in any way,
please take note that, until further notice, I don't care, so get lost.

#28 Mathijs

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 03:00 PM

If this war is even remotely unbalanced as an online strategy game, I'm rage quitting before Afghanistan spams more Ivans.

Fuck yeah!
You guys got the oil, the weapons and friggin' nukes. Combine those three with the fact that the world fears the U.S. and tries to stay on it's good side (i.e. the Dutch Parliament) and you've got yourself a foe that knows no equal. However, because of the fact that you take oil and other resources that do not belong to your nation, groups like Al Qaeda keep on popping out of the ground like weed. And because of the fact that the former U.S. president tried to get his name all over the history books, Dutch, French, Brittish and of god knows how many other nationalities soldiers die in battle. What does the average european tax payer get out of this expensive war? Nothing. Zero. Nill. Okay, we remain friends with the U.S., but I don't really see the point in that. What does the U.S. citizen get out of this war? Cheap gas, to keep on driving around in those HUV's.

Sorry for ranting on about this. Please don't take this personal.

So where is all this oil you proposed we have? Iraqi oil goes into the international pool as does all world oil. Do you think the US is getting some kind of subsidized price on oil? No it isn't happening. We don't get cheaper oil because we have troops in Iraq. But if someone repeats a lie long enough, than people will believe it and repeat it.

We are not getting cheaper gas here in the US because of the war in Iraq. Got it?

I'm no expert, but if the internationl oil pool gets larger from the previously untouched oil from Iraq, wouldn't that make gas prices lower for everybody? Including the US?

If not, why ARE you there? Why did Bush lie about nuclear weapons to go to Iraq? Don't tell me he didn't lie, because he most certainly did. They had no intel whatsoever that proved the presence of nuclear weapons, and I think in the case of invading a country proof is, especially when said country is run by a man empowered by the USA a few years before, a very, very necessary thing to have.

And how do you know that the USA is in fact not stowing away oil? Because your extremely subjective media tells you so? Because you read it on some right-wing internet blog? How do you know?

Oh, and about your incredibly populist article; if you really think its got good points, then dear god you are clueless. I especially like the last paragraph, it's amongst the most terrible American conservative reasoning I have ever burned my eyes on.

Edited by Matias, 31 July 2010 - 05:23 PM.

No fuel left for the pilgrims


#29 Hostile

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:23 AM

I'm no expert, but if the internationl oil pool gets larger from the previously untouched oil from Iraq, wouldn't that make gas prices lower for everybody? Including the US?

I suppose it should but my gas hasn't gone down.

If not, why ARE you there? Why did Bush lie about nuclear weapons to go to Iraq? Don't tell me he didn't lie, because he most certainly did.

I don't think he lied, I think he was dumbly advised and misinformed. Even Oliver Stone portrayed that in his movie "W" and he hates Bush. So if Oliver hates Bush and didn't call him a liar why should the rest of us?

They had no intel whatsoever that proved the presence of nuclear weapons, and I think in the case of invading a country proof is, especially when said country is run by a man empowered by the USA a few years before, a very, very necessary thing to have.

I'm wondering if any nation intent on invading another needs to actually have a reason. :ninja:

And how do you know that the USA is in fact not stowing away oil? Because your extremely subjective media tells you so? Because you read it on some right-wing internet blog? How do you know?

Well how do I know anything is true about anything? Let's not create a conspiracy without SOME proof...

Oh, and about your incredibly populist article; if you really think its got good points, then dear god you are clueless. I especially like the last paragraph, it's amongst the most terrible American conservative reasoning I have ever burned my eyes on.

I wanted to reply to this but couldn't find anything all that conservative in the last paragraph. Maybe I'm missing something.

What in the hell happened? Can you spell 'politicians? ' I hope this goes around THE USA at least 100 times!!!
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GO AHEAD - - - BE AN AMERICAN!!!


Where is the conservative part? :crazed:

#30 Pasidon

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 12:30 AM

Apparently most people hate the conservative part of American politics anyway...

Even Oliver Stone portrayed that in his movie "W" and he hates Bush.


Wait... he does? He's a pure blood American'o actor! A shotgun to the face will cure his insubordination...

#31 Romanul

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 07:03 AM

Because what's "conservative" there is homophobic, pro-Christian and sometimes exaggerated.

Usually conservatives are idiots, unless they really care for a couple of statues.

#32 duke_Qa

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:55 PM

a quick 2-cents on the statistics of taxes: Income taxes does not equal all taxes, does it? You have to consider the taxes that everyday people pay when they buy stuff as well.

Also, that the rich have a lot of money usually can be accounted to them taking more of the cake for being the owner of the business. Not that strange, but just another thing to think about. Up here the state publicizes every single person's income every year unless they specifically ask them not to. An American IT-guru was shocked that we were able to do this, because if it was done in the US there would be riots in the streets and people screaming bloody murder about the differences in wages.

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#33 Vortigern

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 07:58 AM

I'm no expert, but if the internationl oil pool gets larger from the previously untouched oil from Iraq, wouldn't that make gas prices lower for everybody? Including the US?

I suppose it should but my gas hasn't gone down.


You want to bet? In 2003 petrol prices over here were around 77.9 pence per litre, back when we invaded Iraq. They then rose steadily to a high of 103.9 in 2008, which incited strikes and protests at the outrageous price of a commodity that everyone needs to go about their daily lives, at which point our dear government were forced to lower taxes, which brought it down to an average of 89.9 pence per litre, still significantly higher than before we invaded Iraq with its apparent massive fuel reserves. Since then prices have risen enormously, and we've all been forced to resign ourselves to it because there's just nothing we can do. The garage down the road from me is now charging 119.9 pence per litre.

(A dollar is worth about 65 pence. We're paying nearly two dollars for a litre of fuel. How bad is it for you, really?)

On an earlier point, you can't just raise taxes on the rich, for a very simple reason: if you do, they'll put their money somewhere else. It's happened here and it'll happen in America too. The super-rich you're talking about taxing are the people who can easily afford the smartest and most immoral accountants to shift all their worldly wealth into offshore accounts and tax havens, so all you achieve by raising their taxes is a bunch of rapidly expatriating businessmen.
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#34 Bart

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:23 AM

I don't understand why they want to tax people with higher incomes more. Tax is a percentage, so it's already more if you keep it the same for everyone.
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#35 Allathar

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 04:36 PM

I don't understand why they want to tax people with higher incomes more. Tax is a percentage, so it's already more if you keep it the same for everyone.

I hope you voted in the recent elections for a political party who didn't want to cut in the hypotheekrenteaftrek (mortgage tax deduction)? :) It's basically the same story.

Unfortunately, silly leftists think it's a crime to motivate the people for hard work, and think it's fair to enter a top tax of 60% for the richest people. Talk about work demotivation :p
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#36 Phil

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 02:52 AM

I don't understand why they want to tax people with higher incomes more. Tax is a percentage, so it's already more if you keep it the same for everyone.

I believe the point is to tax "everyone according to his ability". The cost of living is not measured in percentage, but fixed. So poor and rich people pay the same amount of money for the same bread, not some percentage of their income. So after you subtract the cost of all the basic needs, the rich people will have disproportionate amounts of money left.

If this system is fair is an entirely different question. A flat tax would also be a lot easier to handle for the state and cut down on administration cost. On the other hand, you would have to remove a lot of the currently existing tax benefits. I'm not sure how it is in other countries, but in Switzerland if you're rich enough to own a house and, even better, a business, you can pull a lot of completely legal tricks to cut down on taxes. You will still pay more than someone with less income, but not as much as it looks like on first glance. Also, taxes on property are quite low.

Our income tax rate extends to 40%. That is a lot, but still bearable if you ask me. It's low enough for people to still have an incentive to do more work and earn more money. I think everything close to or over 50% is simply ridiculous because it oversteps a psychological line. You work more for the state than you work for yourself... Then again, people in Scandinavia don't seem so sad, so maybe it can work.

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#37 Vortigern

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:02 AM

Then again, people in Scandinavia don't seem so sad, so maybe it can work.

You know, apart from the world's highest suicide rates.

I think you're right about going over 50%. It just seems so very much more even if it isn't really, and politics is all about what things seem.
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#38 duke_Qa

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 05:23 PM

You know, apart from the world's highest suicide rates.


Such generalizations makes me want to kill myself... or wiki for DAH TRUTH!

43th Denmark, 39th Norway, 34th Iceland, 29th Sweden and 14th Finland(Finland is a pit of despair and alcohol anyway :)). The US is 41st and the UK is 66th, but it varies greatly within the different domains. Considering the large amount of winter-gloom and cold, I'd say we are more mentally balanced than your average European/American :p

Taxes ain't a big argument up here, people see what they get for the money. Most of the time at least. And if there's something you ain't happy about, you can, with enough elbow-grease, complain about it and get something done about it. The advantage of being a small country.

Edited by duke_Qa, 04 August 2010 - 05:24 PM.

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#39 Imagine

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:53 PM

The garage down the road from me is now charging 119.9 pence per litre.


Compared to what I've seen in London that's a bargain. I've seen 124.9 in some stations towards the center of London but as you head out it drops down to 120.9
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#40 Vortigern

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 09:59 AM

Compared to what I've seen in London that's a bargain. I've seen 124.9 in some stations towards the center of London but as you head out it drops down to 120.9

I've seen motorway service stations at 128.9, but I found out yesterday that the Esso garage in West Wycombe is 112.9 at the moment. I wonder how they've got everything so much cheaper.

Such generalizations makes me want to kill myself... or wiki for DAH TRUTH!

43th Denmark, 39th Norway, 34th Iceland, 29th Sweden and 14th Finland(Finland is a pit of despair and alcohol anyway :)). The US is 41st and the UK is 66th, but it varies greatly within the different domains. Considering the large amount of winter-gloom and cold, I'd say we are more mentally balanced than your average European/American

Man, I guess I was wrong. So if that's so far from the truth, why does everyone think it's the case? Seriously, I've heard that loads of times from a wide variety of sources, so what's the deal there?
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