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Balance in Thrawn Campaign


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#1 Stormhawk

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 01:28 PM

After playing the Thrawn Campaign through once on each side, I have to say that it's slightly tipped in the NR's favor. Several reasons:

1) They start with more Star Dreadnoughts. Especially the two at Coruscant. They are nearly impossible to kill, especially with power to shields. I remember one fight where I had a dozen plus Katana dreadnoughts pounding away at one with power to weapons on, and after about 10 min of continuous bombardment its shields had only dropped by about two thirds.

2) This is the most important one. The NR is much much much more mobile. With some quick conquests at Eriadu, Denon and Druckenwell with the Sluis Van fleet, the Hydian Way and Corellian Run suddenly provide the NR with a superhighway of major trade routes they can use to swiftly react to any attack. Coupled with the fact that most NR warships have Class 2.0 or better hyperdrives, the NR can strike quickly and reinforce quickly nearly anywhere in the Galaxy. On the other hand, the Katana fleet is completely made up of Class 4.0 hyperdrive ships, and the Empire's fast ships (Star Destroyers) are not numerous enough to strike at the NR without dreadnought support. Added to the fact that the Empire does not start within conquering distance of any trade routes besides the Branxant Run, the Imperial fleet cannot respond to NR attacks well and also is very slow to mobilize.

3) NR starts with both more income and proximity to even more income. Several powerful planets are very close to large NR fleets (Corellia, Corfai, Denon, Eriadu) while the only fast opportunities for Imperial expansion are Bandomeer and Muunilinst. NR's great economy plus the shipyards at Kuat, Coruscant and Sluis Van means the Imperial Fleet's superiority is usually short-lived.

While each of these advantages are relatively small, they all add up.

My suggestions for balance: Some more Star Destroyers for the Empire. Preferably Imp-II's, since they have the Class 1.0 hyperdrive. Just adding 1 or 2 of them at, say, Bilringbi would, I think, balance the campaign out nicely.

Edited by Stormhawk, 11 September 2010 - 01:30 PM.


#2 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:02 PM

The campaign should play fairly differently now. For one, the Katana Dreadnaughts are gone. I'll let Ghostrider respond in detail.

#3 Tropical Bob

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 07:49 PM

The campaign should play fairly differently now. For one, the Katana Dreadnaughts are gone. I'll let Ghostrider respond in detail.

Did you guys get around to making the Katana fleet a reward to an objective that both factions are able to fulfill?

#4 Stormhawk

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 08:44 PM

The campaign should play fairly differently now. For one, the Katana Dreadnaughts are gone. I'll let Ghostrider respond in detail.

Did you guys get around to making the Katana fleet a reward to an objective that both factions are able to fulfill?

The thing that I'm not sure I like about that is that 200 dreadnoughts is a lot of firepower. Whoever gets to it first will win, basically.

#5 SpardaSon21

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 09:33 PM

Hopefully it will be balanced somehow. After all, Thrawn was only able to crew the Katana fleet thanks to the cloning facilities on Wayland.

#6 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 09:52 PM

Did you guys get around to making the Katana fleet a reward to an objective that both factions are able to fulfill?

Nah; didn't want to mess with scripted events for this release. I can guarantee the campaign will change again in v1.3 though.

#7 Stormhawk

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 10:01 PM

Did you guys get around to making the Katana fleet a reward to an objective that both factions are able to fulfill?

Nah; didn't want to mess with scripted events for this release. I can guarantee the campaign will change again in v1.3 though.

Wait, so the Katana Fleet's just gone?

#8 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:58 AM

Yeah, pretty much. We'll fix it when we conform with The Essential Atlas in v1.3.

#9 Tropical Bob

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:23 AM

The campaign should play fairly differently now. For one, the Katana Dreadnaughts are gone. I'll let Ghostrider respond in detail.

Did you guys get around to making the Katana fleet a reward to an objective that both factions are able to fulfill?

The thing that I'm not sure I like about that is that 200 dreadnoughts is a lot of firepower. Whoever gets to it first will win, basically.

I would figure it would be something like you can only get a few at a time, or something like that, allowing each side to get a pick from the total pool. A decent gameplay retcon could be that the Fleet got scattered a good bit across the system, or across multiple systems, when it jumped.

Either that, or the objective/s required to be fulfilled could be arduous, allowing the other faction to get an upper hand if you're distracted.

#10 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:07 AM

I'm tentatively planning on having one spawn for every infantry platoon you bring to the deep space location listed in TEA, until they run out. There may also be a sort of quest to unlock the location.

#11 Reedek

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:07 PM

I'm tentatively planning on having one spawn for every infantry platoon you bring to the deep space location listed in TEA, until they run out. There may also be a sort of quest to unlock the location.

Sounds cool...too bad its planned for V1.3

#12 Stormhawk

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:57 AM

Yeah, pretty much. We'll fix it when we conform with The Essential Atlas in v1.3.

So what does the Empire get to make up for that? More Star Destroyers and Strike class cruisers? Well, that solves the mobility problems somewhat.

#13 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:10 PM

Yeah, basically. You also can't discount Thrawn's captains. The Empire starts with a pretty even spread of leadership across the galaxy.

#14 Stormhawk

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 12:37 AM

Yeah, basically. You also can't discount Thrawn's captains. The Empire starts with a pretty even spread of leadership across the galaxy.


What about bringing in heroes from Hyperspace. Has that been accomplished yet?

#15 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 02:06 AM

You're talking about the vanguard slot? No, and I don't expect it to be. The game is either excluding HeroCompany objects from its space reinforceable list, or it's excluding DUMMY_GROUND_COMPANY behavior. Both of those are necessary parts of a hero.

The only thing that might work would be trying Unique_Space_Unit on the hero unit. That's how Vader operated in FoC with the Executor. I don't remember if you could reinforce him or not though. Anyone want to check?

#16 Stormhawk

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 02:29 PM

You're talking about the vanguard slot? No, and I don't expect it to be. The game is either excluding HeroCompany objects from its space reinforceable list, or it's excluding DUMMY_GROUND_COMPANY behavior. Both of those are necessary parts of a hero.

The only thing that might work would be trying Unique_Space_Unit on the hero unit. That's how Vader operated in FoC with the Executor. I don't remember if you could reinforce him or not though. Anyone want to check?


Yes, you could. I remember using a spotter ship to bring in Executor because I never had the patience to wait for the things to ponderously move across the map. I brought in fighters in the vanguard slot, moved toward the rebels, and as soon as I saw incoming fire I would jump in Executor right on them.

#17 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:52 PM

Thanks. I can try reworking it for v1.3 then.

#18 Stormhawk

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 09:27 AM

Zombie thread here, but I was wondering if Ghostrider is willing to elaborate on the changes to my favorite campaign now that most of the stuff for 1.2 seems to be finalized. :)

#19 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 07:26 PM

We haven't really added anything to it since the three Thrawn Offensive news posts that Ghost made a couple years (:blink:) back; it was the first campaign he worked on for v1.2.

#20 Stormhawk

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 02:40 AM

We haven't really added anything to it since the three Thrawn Offensive news posts that Ghost made a couple years (:blink:) back; it was the first campaign he worked on for v1.2.


No Katana Fleet update? That's alright. Still really looking forward to this. The thing I liked the most about the Katana fleet was that it gave the Imps a very unique feel to their starfleet.



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