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The Fires of Greed


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#1 duke_Qa

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:16 AM

So what happens when you forget to pay your 75$ bill for public services a year, and you get a fire? Well in a south fulton the fire brigade lets your house burn down to the ground rather than give you a hand.

http://www.msnbc.msn...s/us_news-life/


This is to me the perfect example of the flaws of conservative predator-capitalism. Punish the grass-root for pocket-change, bail out the bumbling rich idiots when they lose a few billions. Who the hell can't see that it would have been more economic to save the house instead of letting it burn? the only reason they didn't put it out was to make an example to those that have forgotten to pay. Corporate terrorism I'd call it.

Edited by duke_Qa, 07 October 2010 - 08:24 AM.

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#2 Pasidon

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 03:19 PM

This is altruism at work. These fire men were employed to serve the people, and they call upon their altruism to fuel their hunger for wealth. They ask us to sacrifice and be selfless when they themselves don't have a clue. Taking the sweat from under our fingers and becoming parasites of humanity.

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#3 Mathijs

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 05:19 PM

What? Can't you form a coherent sentence for once? From what I can tell, you don't know the meaning of the word altruism...

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#4 duke_Qa

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 06:06 PM

i had to double-check if there was some ironic statement in that, but i think egoism, the opposite word is what one should be using. Although it could be ironically meant.

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#5 Pasidon

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 11:38 PM

Idiots... I'm dead on. Public funding from taxes is already useless, yet these firemen felt as if the home owners weren't supporting their efforts by being selfless and paying their hard earned money to their cause. So they are making a point... yet it isn't as simple as "pay your dues to the community or we'll let you burn". These home owners earned their money on their own account and I am to assume they can't afford every tax luxury they are offered... or chained to, I must say. To ask of them to sacrifice the little they have... to only offer sweat for their blood is the foundation to a parasite. And they wish to feed off of their host until they have nothing more to offer, then they let them die off. Once again, selflessness... Altruism... is used as an excuse to let people die off.

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#6 Mathijs

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:51 AM

Yeah, that didn't make any sense whatsoever. Lay off the alcohol.

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#7 Pasidon

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:58 AM

The fact you have failed to demonstrate any opinion so far leads me to believe you don't even care enough to consider a valid opinion. I wouldn't expect a communist to agree anyway.

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#8 Mathijs

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:08 AM

And the fact you fail to properly explain what the hell you're talking about, (probably because there is no sense to it) and then attack me not with one, but two ad hominem arguments utterly unrelated to the matter of your incoherency leads me to believe you're a right fool.

Anyway, concerning the actual topic, I think my opinion is of a pretty general nature, at least from what I've heard other people around here say about it. (I'd already heard of this before it was posted here.) It's fucking horrible, and I certainly agree with Duke's notion of it being corporate terrorism. The fact that, what I've seen from the article on MSNBC and the video linked there, some people actually agree with the authorities here astounds me.

Edited by Matias, 08 October 2010 - 01:18 AM.

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#9 Taralom

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:08 AM

The fact you have failed to demonstrate any opinion so far leads me to believe you don't even care enough to consider a valid opinion. I wouldn't expect a communist to agree anyway.

I am pretty sure that Matias is no communist. And even if he was, there is nothing wrong with communism, just the way it was practised was wrong.
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#10 Ash

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:48 AM

Don't go there, Taralom. You won't enjoy where that line of conversation leads.

Fucking bastards. I am obliged to serve everyone, even those good-for-nothing dole-wallowing scrotes (so long as they're law-abiding) who are the first to exclaim "I pay your wages". Actually, no, I work and pay taxes. So technically, I pay your wages. Here is a ball, go and bounce it, you moron.

Firefighters are the same. This is just a sick case of people neglecting their oaths of service. Same as American doctors who'll tell you to fuck off if you can't pay. Hippocratic oath anyone?

#11 ambershee

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 08:36 AM

It's a criminal offence to deliberately let animals die in a fire.

I also like how they only turned up after the fire was already big enough to threaten a neighbouring property. If they'd had responded to the call, that wouldn't have happened either.

#12 Allathar

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:19 PM

I am pretty sure that Matias is no communist. And even if he was, there is nothing wrong with communism, just the way it was practised was wrong.

Actually, he's a socialist. Also, communism (and socialism) inherintly doesn't work - mankind is greedy and selfish by nature. Communism is just another way of letting other people work for you - you don't have to do shit while still get the same as others because of 'equal sharing'. But yeah, let's not go there, we've been down that road before, although it led to a few good discussions.

Curious though, Taralom, what did you vote with the elections? :thumbsupsmiley:
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#13 Mathijs

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 02:13 AM

Actually, I'm a nihilist. I wasn't going to respond to Pasidon's stupid claims about my political affiliation, but please, no misconceptions. I was once a socialist, but these days I can't say I believe in anything; be it political philosophy or otherwise.

Also, your classifying of human nature in terms so various and interpretable as "greedy" and "selfish", and then actually believing that definition to be true by fact, demonstrates you haven't really got a clue what you're talking about, neither in Marxist philosophy, nor in the philosophy of human nature as a whole.

I really don't think there is any way to "define" human nature, it is, by nature, ha ha ha, far too diverse to just lump into those categories. Not everybody bases their lives and actions upon selfish self-improvement. Not by a long shot. I am one of those.

Edited by Matias, 09 October 2010 - 02:22 AM.

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#14 Taralom

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 03:47 PM

Actually, he's a socialist. Also, communism (and socialism) inherintly doesn't work - mankind is greedy and selfish by nature. Communism is just another way of letting other people work for you - you don't have to do shit while still get the same as others because of 'equal sharing'. But yeah, let's not go there, we've been down that road before, although it led to a few good discussions.

Curious though, Taralom, what did you vote with the elections? :wink_new:


SP, Socialistic Party. I just turned 18, so I voted for them because they wanted to keep the... errr... study financing(?). Oh, and because of the fact that they would never get in league with the PVV, among other things. So it was a matter of looking for what I felt that people of my age would need, instead of looking what the entire country would need (hadn't had the time to figure that out, unfortunately)

And dude, you just proved my point. Communism doesn't work because of the greedy, selfish nature of human beings. If everybody would care for each other, Communism has the great ideal that everybody gets an equal share. If you'd take human nature out of the picture, communism isn't that bad. It's just a taboo because of us being on the other side of the iron wall during the Cold War.
Actually, it's the same with Hitler. Hitler is a bad man by default because he lost the war. But History is written by the victor, so if Hitler and his Third Reich would have won the Second World War, we would not only speak German in Europe, we would also praise Hitler as our second savior or something.

And didn't I respond to Pasidon that Matias was not a Communist? :thumbsupsmiley: Why are you telling me that he's not a communist? Or did I just get that wrong?



As a last note: I'm not actively keeping up with my Revora postings, so feel free to respond, but I might be late with responding.

On the Last, Last note: Please be gentle? I often have a different look on things, which often goes in the opposite direction of what is generally accepted at Revora, as I have noticed on multiple occasions already.

Edited by Taralom, 11 October 2010 - 03:52 PM.

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#15 Ash

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 04:55 PM

Actually, it's the same with Hitler. Hitler is a bad man by default because he lost the war. But History is written by the victor, so if Hitler and his Third Reich would have won the Second World War, we would not only speak German in Europe, we would also praise Hitler as our second savior or something.

So...nothing to do with him slaughtering six million jews and a few million of other ethnic minorities? He's only bad because he lost?

It is true to say that history's written by the winners, but that which is evil is judged differently than who won. I mean, look further back - Genghis Khan won. A lot. He was still pretty fuckin' evil.

#16 Mathijs

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:15 PM

Not if you ask the Mongolians.

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#17 Taralom

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:18 PM

So...nothing to do with him slaughtering six million jews and a few million of other ethnic minorities? He's only bad because he lost?

You'd be too brainwashed to see that his actions were evil. Since Hitler would have won the war, his assumptions about Jews would be enforced by his totalitarian government and every time you would go to the cinema or whatever, you'd see commercials about how to kill Jews. And such propaganda works greatly on children who are about to watch Finding Nemo 2 or something. And in the same way, Hitler would become a savior thanks to his own propaganda.

Allow me to stress that I am not supportive of Hitler's actions in any way, but that I am trying to state my arguments as objectively as possible.
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#18 Allathar

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:19 PM

SP, Socialistic Party. I just turned 18, so I voted for them because they wanted to keep the... errr... study financing(?). Oh, and because of the fact that they would never get in league with the PVV, among other things. So it was a matter of looking for what I felt that people of my age would need, instead of looking what the entire country would need (hadn't had the time to figure that out, unfortunately)


Hmm, ignoring the fact that the goals of the SP aren't payable and that their plan for higher taxes is very bad for the economy? And you don't think that the PVV is right about there being too much immigrants here who have no future prospects whatsoever? (I voted VVD, by the way, but I agree with the PVV on a lot of things... yeah, I'm controversial too, and enjoying it :thumbsupsmiley:)

If you'd take human nature out of the picture, communism isn't that bad.



Indeed. In theory the system works, but it only requires a few greedy, selfish assholes to bring down the entire system with them.

Actually, it's the same with Hitler. Hitler is a bad man by default because he lost the war. But History is written by the victor, so if Hitler and his Third Reich would have won the Second World War, we would not only speak German in Europe, we would also praise Hitler as our second savior or something.


True too. Not that that doesn't make him less evil, we just wouldn't realize it, although I sometimes think Hitler is being too much demonized. He had a few good points, the Versailles treaty was unfair and only destabilized Europe even more. Small problem was he was as insane as dictators come.

As a last note: I'm not actively keeping up with my Revora postings, so feel free to respond, but I might be late with responding.


No problem. What/where are you studying now, by the way? You've just completed your VWO, right? :wink_new:

On the Last, Last note: Please be gentle? I often have a different look on things, which often goes in the opposite direction of what is generally accepted at Revora, as I have noticed on multiple occasions already.

Well, I prefer that above the same old crap I'm always thinking... Discussions are most fun when done with someone with directly opposing views. Met some die-hard socialist girl a while back, led to a few great discussions and a couple new insights. And the more your look goes against the generally accepted and political correct, the better :evgr:
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#19 Taralom

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:32 PM

Hmm, ignoring the fact that the goals of the SP aren't payable and that their plan for higher taxes is very bad for the economy? And you don't think that the PVV is right about there being too much immigrants here who have no future prospects whatsoever? (I voted VVD, by the way, but I agree with the PVV on a lot of things... yeah, I'm controversial too, and enjoying it :thumbsupsmiley:)



True, but I knew beforehand that SP wouldn't become a ruling party. However, I feel the PVV generalizes too much. There are some immigrants who lack future perspectives, but there are dutch people who do exactly the same. However, the blame is put on those immigrants, a mere 2% or so of the total population.
And there are lots of immigrants who I personally know and look up to. There are several here on campus who really outsmart me by miles. Should they be sent back because some lack the moral initiative to actually do something?

Indeed. In theory the system works, but it only requires a few greedy, selfish assholes to bring down the entire system with them.


And that is the entire point! I have to write response papers on political theories, and I often come back on the greed part. Greed is one of the main causes of war. Greed makes social structures fall apart. Greed is the goddammed worst sin there is in human life. And to come back on the point I formerly quoted, PVV judges all immigrants on those few who come here out of greed.

True too. Not that that doesn't make him less evil, we just wouldn't realize it, although I sometimes think Hitler is being too much demonized. He had a few good points, the Versailles treaty was unfair and only destabilized Europe even more. Small problem was he was as insane as dictators come.


I thought I saw that he was indoctrinated by his mother or so? That explained his hatred for jews.
Point remains, power makes people insane. They feel that they cannot overstep any line anymore. It is boundaries that keep us sane, unfortunately. Dictators lack those boundaries.

No problem. What/where are you studying now, by the way? You've just completed your VWO, right? :wink_new:


I'm currently doing a University College from Leiden Universiteit, though the actual location is in The Hague. It has a focus upon political and global problems. I take college at the Lange Voorhout, just a few streets from the binnenhof.
http://www.lucthehague.nl/
That's the site, might make things a bit clearer?
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#20 Mathijs

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:42 PM

Just to add onto some of the things Taralom said about greed and the human need to constantly get to some higher position, (even if it doesn't really mean anything in practise), most socialist theory devotes quite a bit of pages to the abolishing of this drive, which they consider counter-productive on a large scale. Coöperation > competition, and all.

Most socialist philosophers, Marx included, believed that the conditions of one's environment should be adjusted to minimize the need for constant strife to outdo one another, and then subdued further by education, to cultivate a society based on communal gain, not individual gain.

Just for your information.

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