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What would you like to see in a TC mod?


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#1 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:19 AM

Out of curiosity, and a general interest in the community's opinions, what kinds of things would you guys like to see in a TC mod?

Don't count on my making any of them, in any way shape or form, this is not necessarily for a project, and if I hate you're ideas I don't want to be on the hook for anything, but it's always good to know what you guys want from a mod. I do still mod after all, and it's great to have this kind of information. I don't think what I want out of a mod is ever what the community desires exactly.

This time, specifically TC mods, as I have had a bit of interest in them lately, and I don't see a lot of TC mod work being done around here to compare.
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#2 Lauri

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:21 AM

Well, a historical mod would be nice, being at a certain time or simply spanning a decade or two, or even a century.. with my ideas, probably more than a century :p
And having different factions from all over Europe and the Middle East, perhaps in far Asia aswell.
And you've also got Rise of Rome, that was a great idea that started good.

Otherwise, I think that a mod based on Dragon Age would be hard but possible..
Anything with guns or lightsabers I think belongs to a newer CNC game, unless it's the first guns ever made, in that case I guess I'd "allow" it in a BFME TC..

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#3 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:06 PM

Oh... How different, I was thinking more in the realm of original fantasy worlds. This is exactly why I need outside opinions on these kinds of subjects.
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#4 Kwen

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:00 PM

Otherwise, I think that a mod based on Dragon Age would be hard but possible..
Anything with guns or lightsabers I think belongs to a newer CNC game, unless it's the first guns ever made, in that case I guess I'd "allow" it in a BFME TC..

I think this covers the Fantasy world TC.

Me personally, I would love a medieval TC. One that covered the different places i history and geographic placement.

Like different time periods and such. Like the Greeks, the Romans, then covering the middle ages.. and such.

Now I understand that Medieval 2: Total War basically covers it, but I would love to see this sort of gameplay and architectural and design beauty in the SAGE engine. I really love the graphics of the environment.



Just picture it, instead of a Gondor or a Rohan castle, you have a detailed, and accurate French Castle, or English one..

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#5 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:56 PM

It's not original fantasy world. That is, something designed specifically for the mod, which would allow you to put gameplay first and not be bothered by lore, so it has some advantages.

Not a huge fan of the sage engine myself... Not sure I would use it if it were ever up to me. But I'm addicted to modding it, so I'm not really sure. It's unfortunately lacking in a lot of areas. It's not too bad, for an earlier 3d rts engine, but it's pretty outdated now. All the early 3d rts engines, and even some more modern ones could have used some more work.

I would love to see a good historical game, though. I haven't played a decent history rts since Age of Empires II... It seems like a pretty popular idea, we really aught to come together as a community and make one. Oh, we already tried that.

Still, if y'all feed me the assets I'm willing to code one. As an open mod for the community to freely use, my gift to you. Probably in BFME2 for naval combat and some more advanced things. Maybe RotWK for a 7th faction among other things.
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#6 Kwen

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 07:07 PM

ROTWK could be good, because then it would be much closer to Age of Empires because of the Build Anywhere system.

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#7 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 07:21 PM

Yes, I would certainly take inspiration from age of empires if I were to make a history mod.

Still, the economics would be fairly different no matter how you did it and it would probably use hordes not single units, which certainly makes a difference.

I'm not sure what to do about spellbooks, though.
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#8 Lauri

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 07:49 PM

Spellbooks is where ancient greek, roman and nordic gods come into play I believe :p Killing the idea of "historical"

Personally, I've always wanted a History TC for a mod, starting small of course. Hell, I've even started on one for BFME1, though it was just barely started, and the faction was a anti-lore LotR faction invading from the north, being inspired heavily by Vikings ;)
You know Gfire, we should make one, for BFME2 or RotWK (everyone who has WK has 2, while WK has some new stuff avaliable for use..)

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#9 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 07:57 PM

It would depend on if we thought the RotWK features were worth it.

I think RotWK is like $5 these days so people should just get it.
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#10 Lauri

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:12 PM

Personally I think I'm more of an BFME2 guy, and a 7th faction won't help us given that we'd never got around to making a 7th faction :p
Possibly just 2, or perhaps more if we simply did units first for a Gondor-buildings look-alike ;)

Anyways, I forgot, but spellbook for strictly historical:
There are of course summons, that would kill the game if used to much. But there's also war chant, anti-war chant against the enemy, player upgrades (invention of better craftmanship, all infantry medium-heavy armour units permanent +10% speed) and so on. Mercenary force upgrade, that allows you to build and recruit mercenaries (although an Inn could work for that..) and also a War Paint player upgrade, that does, yeah, war pain the folks (Braveheart scotsmen, I'm looking at you)

So there's certainly possiblities within the gameframe.. sucks that BFME2 has way more spells than BFME1 though :cool2:

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#11 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:33 PM

That's true. RotWK doesn't really have any other anims bfme2 doesn't have that I'm aware of... I believe most the new units use the anims of old units, though I could be mistaken.

I'm not a big fan of summons personally, but that could work if not overdone.

Also, what about heroes? I don't really like the idea of heroes in skirmish so much.

Edit: I think the obvious choice for factions would be Athens and Sparta. It would make like an old school rts, where there are two factions which sort of mirror each other, but of course have their unique attributes (as much as in BFME, of course.)
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#12 Lauri

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:18 PM

I'd personally like to have a few heroes for each faction, as named captains. Fictional ones most likely.
Even though I have Captain units for T4A, I don't really like them anymore. They're basically what a mini-hero in terms of supporting the troops, but hard to keep track of :p
So having the heroes as named captains, and of course going for more diversity between factions by really making a Spartan captain with very fighting oriented skills, while the Athens one would be more passive (Ancient Greece is not something my history skill is very good at, so pardon any obvious flaws)

So yeah, I do like your idea for Sparta and Athens, if it's possible to really make them different in terms of gameplay. Even though they were different but similar in history, it has to reflect gameplay.
That's why a France vs England would work great, with England going for infantry and especially longbowmen, while France is more cavalry oriented. (again, take my words with a shovel.. I'm more a post-1900 guy in terms of knowledge)

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#13 Kwen

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:31 PM

Spellbooks is where ancient greek, roman and nordic gods come into play I believe :p Killing the idea of "historical"

I think their Mythology is history. It was their 'religion' in their time, so its as much a part of history as Christianity or Judaism.

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#14 Lauri

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:36 PM

You are of course right, I could've used another word.

Killing of being a historical and "realistic" mod perhaps :p No thunder from Thor and the likes

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#15 Kwen

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:02 PM

Agreed. I think that 'Spellbooks' could be used differently. It could be oriented to Military tactics. The concept of it being for spells could be removed if the mod is a TC. Just requires some string and APT changes. And as far as anyone else is concerned, just a button to a window with more buttons. No need for 'spells'

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#16 Gfire

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:40 PM

Indeed, they could all be passive upgrades, maybe tech tree options. It could tie in to the game more.

Since points are granted by killing enemies, I'd imagine Sparta might really rely on it in order to advance and grow, whereas Athens might rely more on the resources and technology. Passive technological upgrades learned from their experience in war, but they aren't nearly as effective as the Sparta spellbook. And Sparta has to use their spellbook advantage in order to keep up with Athens which is probably economically and technologically stronger.

Not sure exactly how that would be implemented.
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#17 Lauri

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:22 AM

We could also LIMIT the spellbook. Kinda like doctrines. So in the first tier, you choose one of 4 (isn't it 4 in BFME2?), and get access to those below it, but disabling the other 3. For example: Economic - Passive - Limited War - Total War. Each one giving access to those below, and of course granting bonuses and negative values against you (Say.. Economic = +10% resources, +10% longer training time and cost for units... Passive is 5% on those, Limited war is -5% and Total War is -10% on those. Yeah, buildtimes might've been better with a SEE system where it takes long to build, but it's just an idea) That would lead to one uniqe power for Total War, and one unique for Economic, while the rest of the powers and tiers are crossing all over. (well, E and TW might not be able to reach the one to the far opposite on tier 3..)


A possibly even better idea, is simply having different tactics or whatever, and make them all independent, and avaliable from the get-go. So you could save up to a really strong one in tier 4 (I'd say, still use the tier system of "how powerful is this?") and buy that tier 4 power as your first, although you'll have to fight to get enough points. Or you can take one of those early ones that you can afford right at the start.

Damn, sounds exicting :p

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#18 Kwen

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:30 AM

That's quite a good idea. it gives more variety to players to choose economic strategies. The spellbook could be the foundation for the whole economy of each match. All buildings and units and such would be directly affected by the economic decision.

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#19 Gfire

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:31 AM

Indeed, being able to purchase sciences but not being limited by this tree would be interesting. I believe you can even use a science purchase commandbutton on a structure, so you don't even open the spellbook in order to buy them, they are integrated with your base. You could disable the spell store itself via map scripts and then use the points almost like a second resource for buying sciences at various buildings. It would be a possibility.
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#20 Kwen

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:42 AM

I would contribute heavily to this project if it became a reality.

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