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Galtung: U.S. empire will fall by 2020


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#1 duke_Qa

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:30 AM



This is pretty interesting, disturbing in my ears, but this guy is apparently aknowledged as a very wise person.



more on the reasons why The US will fail. It is quite accurate description of the world right now as well. He does remind me a bit of palpatine though ;)

This is pretty relevant to the surge of the Tea-party. He believes that when the US empire falls, it might be a good thing for the US, either going into an age of blooming or become a fascist nation.




This is a bit more disturbing, a quick summary of the big problems in the world, including the big dangers of a world war 3 and the likelihood of a Muslim version of the E.U gathering all the Muslim nations together.

Edited by duke_Qa, 07 November 2010 - 01:51 AM.

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#2 Hostile

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 04:16 AM

He makes some very interesting points. He speaks of retracting US military might in many areas. But to remove ourselves from Afghanistan would only reinforce the existing idea that we trully are not looking out for the people there.

You can't eat your cake and have it to. I also undrstand his points about US military bases encircling Russia-China. That would make any nation state uneasy. But the nations we are involved in happen to be in their neighborhood. Removing our presence might appear good, but what would be the cons of such an action?

I was alittle puzzled by his statements on the Jewish empire?! He failed to define exactly what that was.

It also appears you enjoy the idea of the collapse of a so called American empire. I'm sure the Chinese Empire will give you what you want. ;)

#3 duke_Qa

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:25 PM

No, I find it somewhat disturbing. As much as I don't like empires I prefer an American empire compared to a Chinese, Muslim, Russian or Indian one. Mostly because we(westerners) honor human rights a lot more than any of those do, and that we are culturally more related. Culture wars are nasty things after all, I rather not get stuck in the same position as the jews did a mere century ago.

I am honestly worried that if Americans remove their military presence, someone else is going to take over in a jiffy. Just the transition would cause plenty of chaos.

On the Israeli empire, I think he means Zionism. Empires usually base themselves on having control in lands far outside their borders. He calls Israel a micro-empire, which I guess means he's aiming at the local control over the palestinian areas and the wast amount of military power and covert operations around the world.

Edited by duke_Qa, 07 November 2010 - 02:34 PM.

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#4 Gen.Kenobi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 05:18 PM

I'd prefer the rise of a green and yellowish empire from the South America ;)

Nah, just kidding... but seriously, one day USA's empire will fall...it could happen tomorrow, or in 2020...just take a look at the History Books: the Vikings, Alexander, the Romans, the Portuguese, the British, USSR, ...they all have fallen...

America will just be another one, untill another one rise and fall, untill the entire humanity joins togheter to create the Empire of the Earth, exploring the Universe ;) (it feels kinda Treekie ;) )

kudos to Pasidon for this awesome avvy and siggy!


#5 Puppeteer

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 05:44 PM

It's not a case of an empire falling, more of it just fading. The point when other nations compete and overtake the USA economically is the point at which America's decline accelerates.
Oh.

#6 duke_Qa

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 09:29 AM

"Empires die with a whimper" as he says. Economic+political turmoil and being economically overrun by the Chinese doesn't exactly help. Consumer society is another problem in the long run. It sure does work fine to begin with, but once you are so picky that you won't do anything but be fed grapes by MeganFoxClones©, how can you expect to be a major economic power?

(...I just realized that a massive amount MeganFoxClones© in sweaty, dirty working conditions might just be what the western world needs! it would be two birds with one stone; more labour and more inspiration to work ;))

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 10:14 AM

No, I find it somewhat disturbing. As much as I don't like empires I prefer an American empire compared to a Chinese, Muslim, Russian or Indian one. Mostly because we(westerners) honor human rights a lot more than any of those do, and that we are culturally more related. Culture wars are nasty things after all, I rather not get stuck in the same position as the jews did a mere century ago.

I am honestly worried that if Americans remove their military presence, someone else is going to take over in a jiffy. Just the transition would cause plenty of chaos.

On the Israeli empire, I think he means Zionism. Empires usually base themselves on having control in lands far outside their borders. He calls Israel a micro-empire, which I guess means he's aiming at the local control over the palestinian areas and the wast amount of military power and covert operations around the world.


Well that's the problem, people think an american "empire" is bad but the consquences could be a whole lot worse. But then again i've got the feeling that America just slightly backs down and the world becomes "balanced" meaning there isn't truly any sole superpower but again though that could be bad aswell ala cold war which became full of proxy wars.

#8 Pasidon

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:29 AM

Well that's the thing about extremists... they don't care if their empire turns out worse; they just want their name on it and their god's guts squeezed in the gears. But this guy is no better than the modern day Nostradamus, spewing what seems like sense, but underestimates the lengths to mass human survival in this century. I would like the West to fall as much as any 80 year old, but probably not the likely outcome.

#9 duke_Qa

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:20 AM

Well that's the thing about extremists... they don't care if their empire turns out worse; they just want their name on it and their god's guts squeezed in the gears.

Yeah, luckily there is just one group of people that have a tendency to do that right now beyond us, and that are the Muslims. Fortunately for us they are not on good terms with any of the other empires, barely with themselves.

- Russia got their own Muslim minority to suppress and keep in chess, they wouldn't support a Muslim empire if the muslim nations got together as the E.U have. Russians are very aggressive when it comes to encroachment like that.
- China has a more passive-aggressive fear of the Muslim religion, more so than against christianity, since it is a bit less aggressive in the "unified empire" rhetoric. China keeps to itself as long as it can trade and be left alone. A Muslim empire that starts trying to chip in on Chinese resources in Africa and Eurasia is going to get great-walled.
- India hates Muslims and won't have much to do with them, besides, they got enough right now keeping themselves occupied, not a big army running around outside here. Pretty much a "Outsource to us and we'll help you, but stop preaching already." Mentality

We also got other entities like Venezuela which likes to ally and aid opponents of The US empire. I would like to say Venezuela is a budding empire-builder trying to expand it's influences to unpopular nations and earn money that way. Though it seems that neighboring countries don't really like that. Brazil and the other south-American nations are pro-western in my opinion, even though they traffic a lot of drugs to us.

But this guy is no better than the modern day Nostradamus, spewing what seems like sense, but underestimates the lengths to mass human survival in this century. I would like the West to fall as much as any 80 year old, but probably not the likely outcome.


He does have a lot of experience though, he anticipated the fall of the Soviet union based on wars and peace-agreements. He seems to have a very good sense of the international power-dynamic compared to generic political animals with agendas. He speaks his mind with little interest in sides, which is refreshing.

I don't understand what you mean about "underestimating the lengths of mass human survival this century". Sounds like some food crisis. Also don't get your "80-year old wishing the west to die" reference, if anything your average 80-year-old would be hardcore nationalists most of the time. The outcome is quite likely if the west just sit around doing nothing but bicker about utopian philosofies like anarcho-capitalism and communism, and don't actually get anything done. I wish there was a "STFU-And-build-me-a-nation-bitch" philosophy out there.

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