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#21 Devon

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:02 PM

Can you be any more of a typical, ignorant yank? Jesus. You make the other Americans on this board look bad. I'm sorry, I'm not in the mood to be constructive when your posts are so blatantly uninformed.


Sorry. It's not all of us.




I started following this last night when I received a text while at a basketball game. It's still sort of sinking in I guess, and I don't really know what to make of it. If the West wants to hold true to its principles, then I think it has to support the people, but this could result in Islamic fundamentalism gaining control of Egypt, which would cause a whole chain of events I don't even want to think about now. On the other hand, fully supporting a government that abuses the liberties of its people would be (generally considered) morally wrong as well as just stupid, stirring up even more anti-Western sentiment. We could go the whole route of setting up a (hopefully) friendly dictator, but that's backfired before too. I don't know what to think of it all really.

Two things though:
Our state department issues a statement via tweet. Is this really what we've come to?
The Obama administration told the demonstrators they had a right to assemble, but needed to protest peacefully, or something like that. I'll always have a hard time listening to stuff like this until I hear the US government officially renounce the violent revolution our Founding Fathers started.

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#22 Hostile

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:15 PM

[quote name='Matias' timestamp='1296312001' post='839335']
[quote name='Ganon]People need to realize that the US is leading the world' date=' not controlling it.[/quote']

Americans need to realize that we don't need your "leadership".

Edit: Wait, I just read the rest of your post. Disregard everything, I will leave it to the others.
[/quote]
Older people understand being "revolutionary," it's part of being young, being passionate, being full of stuff. The silly notion that a collective group of young people can change the world. Yes you can, the question is what will you change it to? Communism? Or a better form of capitalism?

I used to be a young right wing guy, than I left I and went far left in my early years, than I "grew up", and realized there is a way to the way the world works.

You simply can't tear down everything and start again with young people being in charge. There is a reason why the youth has so much to learn. Fundemental changes are important, but tearing down everything and starting new by living in a commune is not the way.

Things need to evolve on a relative level, in small steps. Changes are coming but let's fix the system not replace it. There are still nations with a biblical mentality who are making nuclear weapons. You cannot combine the two. Jewish, Christian, and Muslims with nukes, need to stop pointing them at each other and beating their chest screaming "I'll wipe you from the map" because my God said so...

This is not the kind of rhetoetic we need. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with having nukes in your left pocket and diplomacy in your right.

America is not the enemy despite all these left wingers or ring wing dictators proclaiming they don't want the US to help. They are not exactly turning down our $US counted in the billions. (Eguipt $6 billion a year)

There is going to be some world power, which would you rather? US democracy, or maybe Chinese censorship? Maybe even a woldwide caliphate of Shariah law? Which government will you choose?

#23 Mathijs

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 01:46 AM

[quote name='Hostile' timestamp='1296339327' post='839382']
[quote name='Matias' timestamp='1296312001' post='839335']
[quote name='Ganon]People need to realize that the US is leading the world' date=' not controlling it.[/quote']

Americans need to realize that we don't need your "leadership".

Edit: Wait, I just read the rest of your post. Disregard everything, I will leave it to the others.
[/quote]
Older people understand being "revolutionary," it's part of being young, being passionate, being full of stuff. The silly notion that a collective group of young people can change the world. Yes you can, the question is what will you change it to? Communism? Or a better form of capitalism?

I used to be a young right wing guy, than I left I and went far left in my early years, than I "grew up", and realized there is a way to the way the world works.

You simply can't tear down everything and start again with young people being in charge. There is a reason why the youth has so much to learn. Fundemental changes are important, but tearing down everything and starting new by living in a commune is not the way.

Things need to evolve on a relative level, in small steps. Changes are coming but let's fix the system not replace it. There are still nations with a biblical mentality who are making nuclear weapons. You cannot combine the two. Jewish, Christian, and Muslims with nukes, need to stop pointing them at each other and beating their chest screaming "I'll wipe you from the map" because my God said so...

This is not the kind of rhetoetic we need. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with having nukes in your left pocket and diplomacy in your right.

America is not the enemy despite all these left wingers or ring wing dictators proclaiming they don't want the US to help. They are not exactly turning down our $US counted in the billions. (Eguipt $6 billion a year)

There is going to be some world power, which would you rather? US democracy, or maybe Chinese censorship? Maybe even a woldwide caliphate of Shariah law? Which government will you choose?
[/quote]

Only 4 sentences in before you linked my one-line reply to me wanting to revolutionize the world and institute communism everywhere.

Well done. A clear example of how black and white your world is. "You don't want America bossing your country around? You must be a communist youth!"

Edited by Matias, 30 January 2011 - 01:55 AM.

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#24 Phil

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 02:29 AM

You simply can't tear down everything and start again with young people being in charge. There is a reason why the youth has so much to learn. Fundemental changes are important, but tearing down everything and starting new by living in a commune is not the way.

Things need to evolve on a relative level, in small steps. Changes are coming but let's fix the system not replace it.

Tell that to your Founding Fathers...
Fixing the system is fine and dandy, but sometimes a system is beyond repair. In that case it needs to be overthrown and everything old torn down. Not that I myself believe capitalism is such a system beyond repair, but I disagree with the whole idea that revolution has to be bad.

America is not the enemy despite all these left wingers or ring wing dictators proclaiming they don't want the US to help. They are not exactly turning down our $US counted in the billions. (Eguipt $6 billion a year)

As far as I know, those "left wingers" don't get billions of dollars. Thus the fact that dictators take your money hardly makes the US less of an enemy. I don't quite understand that argument you're making here.

There is going to be some world power, which would you rather? US democracy, or maybe Chinese censorship? Maybe even a woldwide caliphate of Shariah law? Which government will you choose?

The fact that others might be worse hardly makes the US' world policing legitimate.
You assume that after one single world power the next will certainly follow. Who says it can't come down to a number of "power blocks" on equal level? Looks like the Chinese censors do understand some things the US democrats don't. Firstly that there will come a time in which even big powers need to play ball with the rest. And secondly that soft power can sometimes be a lot more useful than hard power. You don't see the Chinese invading countries and thereby ruining their economy and making themselves world's number one target. And if they want to change their approach, let them try - and fail. Empires don't last.

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#25 Hostile

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:00 PM

You simply can't tear down everything and start again with young people being in charge. There is a reason why the youth has so much to learn. Fundemental changes are important, but tearing down everything and starting new by living in a commune is not the way.

Things need to evolve on a relative level, in small steps. Changes are coming but let's fix the system not replace it.

Tell that to your Founding Fathers...
Fixing the system is fine and dandy, but sometimes a system is beyond repair. In that case it needs to be overthrown and everything old torn down. Not that I myself believe capitalism is such a system beyond repair, but I disagree with the whole idea that revolution has to be bad.

America is not the enemy despite all these left wingers or ring wing dictators proclaiming they don't want the US to help. They are not exactly turning down our $US counted in the billions. (Egypt $6 billion a year)

As far as I know, those "left wingers" don't get billions of dollars. Thus the fact that dictators take your money hardly makes the US less of an enemy. I don't quite understand that argument you're making here.

There is going to be some world power, which would you rather? US democracy, or maybe Chinese censorship? Maybe even a woldwide caliphate of Shariah law? Which government will you choose?

The fact that others might be worse hardly makes the US' world policing legitimate.
You assume that after one single world power the next will certainly follow. Who says it can't come down to a number of "power blocks" on equal level? Looks like the Chinese censors do understand some things the US democrats don't. Firstly that there will come a time in which even big powers need to play ball with the rest. And secondly that soft power can sometimes be a lot more useful than hard power. You don't see the Chinese invading countries and thereby ruining their economy and making themselves world's number one target. And if they want to change their approach, let them try - and fail. Empires don't last.

Wow! So you are suggesting tearing down the existing western governments through revolution? Now we are getting to the truth. And replace it with what?

There was a time when politians watched Nazi Germany rise and they tried to appease and contain them. They were not successful. So here we are repeating the same mistake by not taking the rise of Islamic Facisim seriously. You can't appease facism. If you give an inch, they take a mile. So you want the US to shut up, take it's toys and go home, and simply watch it happen.

There were many people who thought the same thing of the Nazis, just give them an inch and they'll be happy.

I do assume that after the decline of one superpower than another will rise. Which one will it be? Which one do you want?

The idea of power blocks has existed since the beginning of time. An enemy of my enemy is my friend. That isn't going away any time soon. The US has nukes in it's left pocket and diplomacy in it's right pocket. Don't put the US in a position to have to reach into it's left pocket. Even the US wasn't stupid enough to make the Russians reach into it's left pocket.

We have to ask, is there going to be a global police force? Is there some nation that will stand up and try to counter facism in any form? And what nation is most qualified to do that? If some nation invaded your nation, it would be the US that would be the first nation to stop talking and start doing to remove the invader from your nation. Don't forget that. You might despise the US, but it would be the first nation to sacrifice it's youth to free your nation. Don't forget that my allies. :lol:

#26 Phil

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:27 PM

Wow! So you are suggesting tearing down the existing western governments through revolution? Now we are getting to the truth. And replace it with what?

It sure is amazing what you manage to read into a post. Even when I say the exact opposite, you can accuse me of wanting to tear down Western governments. Do you even read what I write? And by "read" I don't mean "hit every word once with an eye", but "process the information given and understand it". If you do, I'm amazed your brain doesn't explode when I say "white" and you accuse me of saying "black".
This is the part you might have missed when your brain shut down after reading "revolution" in my post.

[...] Not that I myself believe capitalism is such a system beyond repair, but I disagree with the whole idea that revolution has to be bad.

Contrary to what you might think based on my posts on this forum, I'm neither an anarchist, a communist nor a socialist nor anything of that sort. My political ideology is somewhere between classical liberalism (the ideology that founded your country - and mine) and social liberalism. Of course on the typical Fox News scale that would be way beyond the left end, but it's actually very centrist.


There was a time when politians watched Nazi Germany rise and they tried to appease and contain them. They were not successful. So here we are repeating the same mistake by not taking the rise of Islamic Facisim seriously. You can't appease facism. If you give an inch, they take a mile. So you want the US to shut up, take it's toys and go home, and simply watch it happen.

There were many people who thought the same thing of the Nazis, just give them an inch and they'll be happy.

Firstly, the damn thing is called fascism.

Secondly, the US doesn't exactly have a very good track record when it comes to fighting fascism. Sure, you brought down Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in WW2, for which the Europeans will be forever grateful (or at least another 50 years...) and set up democratic countries instead, but that was 70 years ago. Since then you haven't been known to export democracy very much. Maybe you can't appease fascism, but you sure can set it up when it fits you. Chile, anyone?
No, the sad fact is that US supported just about every "fascist" dictator if it fitted their agenda in any way. Be it for regional stability, suppressing islamists, oil, containment of neighbouring states, you name it.

Also, "Islamic Fascism"? Where? Iran? Even with that stretch it makes one country. How many others are you fighting? The ones on the Arab peninsula? I don't think so, relations seem rather cordial there...


The idea of power blocks has existed since the beginning of time. An enemy of my enemy is my friend. That isn't going away any time soon. The US has nukes in it's left pocket and diplomacy in it's right pocket. Don't put the US in a position to have to reach into it's left pocket. Even the US wasn't stupid enough to make the Russians reach into it's left pocket.

Who exactly are you threatening or not threatening with those nukes? Nobody with at least half a brain would use nuclear weapons today. Who is putting the US in a position to use nukes? What kind of hollow threat should that even be? You can bet that the US would lose just about every single ally in the western hemisphere if it did use them...


We have to ask, is there going to be a global police force? Is there some nation that will stand up and try to counter facism in any form? And what nation is most qualified to do that? If some nation invaded your nation, it would be the US that would be the first nation to stop talking and start doing to remove the invader from your nation. Don't forget that. You might despise the US, but it would be the first nation to sacrifice it's youth to free your nation. Don't forget that my allies. :lol:

I believe you're stuck in the Cold War somehow. Nonetheless, you have a point. Unfortunately the Europeans don't have enough balls yet to step in when it's really needed (rare cases of humanitarian intervention like in the Balkans in the 90s). For that kind of dirty work you need the Americans. On the other hand, the US grossly overuses its force in cases where it's highly unjustified and with little to no gain (Afghanistan, Iraq).


I do assume that after the decline of one superpower than another will rise. Which one will it be? Which one do you want?

Like I said: none.
Also, prepare for some tough decades ahead if you still don't understand the concept of multilateralism on the international stage. The time will soon come where the US can't simply say what goes. If you don't manage to balance that out with friendly relations and a very different attitude, you'll eventually be left behind.

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#27 Ganon

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 07:02 PM

Secondly, the US doesn't exactly have a very good track record when it comes to fighting fascism. Sure, you brought down Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in WW2, for which the Europeans will be forever grateful (or at least another 50 years...) and set up democratic countries instead, but that was 70 years ago.


Nah, you give us too much credit there. Let's not piss off the brits, please.
I may be a little overly patriotic, but I'm not stupid.

The Brits pretty much single-handedly held off Hitler with their Royal Air Force, for a while.
Sure we gave them a lot of support (In terms of supplies and whatnot), but don't forget how late we entered the war....After so many innocent lives were lost.
Not to mention how many Russian lives were lost, especially in places like Stalingrad.

Anyway, that truthfully is a problem with the American mentality. That the world should revere us so highly because of something we played a large, positive role in, almost 70 years ago.
The world is moving on, the Cold War is over, and people just don't need the US so much anymore.

That's the way I see it.

But to reply to a previous statement:

If you want an appropriate place to start, with violent repercussions which really backfired on America, try Afghanistan. Funding of the mujahideen. Why? No other reason than to defy the Soviets, who were themselves trying to stabilise a NEIGHBOURING state.

Which is precisely the reason that situation was taken advantage of. It isn't complicated.
We didn't trust the Soviets and we used any advantage at our disposal. Keep your enemy busy chasing chickens, then sneak into the hen house.
I hope that makes sense to you.

Edited by Ganon, 30 January 2011 - 07:15 PM.


#28 Romanul

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 07:08 PM

Posted Image


This thread is subject to Godwin's law.

#29 Ganon

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 07:18 PM

This thread is subject to Godwin's law.

That's not fair. :lol:

As if you expected the subject of Hitler or fascist Germany to NOT be brought up. In this topic.

Edited by Ganon, 30 January 2011 - 07:19 PM.


#30 Phil

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 08:22 PM

[image cut]
This thread is subject to Godwin's law.

I don't find that particularly funny or witty. Your avatar makes you look like a real fascist to anyone who hasn't seen this thread. I'd think it over if I were you...

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#31 duke_Qa

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 09:22 PM

He's claimed plenty of times that he is a fascist. A poser fascist but a fascist nonetheless. (fascism is, all in all, a memetic disease in the same grouping as fanatic religion. It might help build nations but it does so on the bones of the dissenters, which ultimately will lead to a brain drain and cause early death)

America wouldn't have been of much help in Europe against Hitler if it wasn't for the Soviets and Eastern Europeans sacrifices against the elite warmachine of the nazis. And it wouldn't be able to do much either if Britain got invaded. What is fascinating is that we in the western world somehow managed to keep the world in our grasp for the last 60 years after having something that can be considered a civil war that killed 3-5% of the world population.

Also, prepare for some tough decades ahead if you still don't understand the concept of multilateralism on the international stage. The time will soon come where the US can't simply say what goes. If you don't manage to balance that out with friendly relations and a very different attitude, you'll eventually be left behind.


Pretty much sums it up. I personally believe the US is moving in this direction. More economic insentives like the military funding to Egypt and the likes instead of hands-down invasions.

Although such ways of doing politics are also somewhat morally grey... Nobody really talked much of this corrupt regime in Egypt before the people started rising, and its pretty much only now we realize that this was a regime that did horrible things with our blessings. If the Egyptian people lose this revolt, it would be a very big hit on our karma. I personally don't see how we could accept such hypocrisy if we are to live in freedom, but won't allow others trying to do the same because their abusive masters are doing the same.

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#32 Bart

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 10:20 PM

Here's an interesting article. Sorry, it's in Dutch (so I guess only Matias can read it :lol:) but it explains why Europe should leave the US behind.

http://www.depers.nl...el-Amerika.html
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#33 Vortigern

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 10:29 PM

Care to sum it up for those of us who aren't fluent?

This is only a tangential point to the thread, I'm afraid, but Romanul: do you actually understand what genuine fascism entails? Or do you just like to label yourself in a provocative manner?

Ganon, nice of you to appreciate the efforts of the British, although as has been said, we really couldn't have won WW2 on our own. We did owe the USA for that one, but I'm of the opinion that what debt there was has long since has been paid. WW1, now, that was a different matter. The American contribution there was minimal at best at a point at which Germany was already collapsing internally. Don't try and claim any credit for that one.
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#34 Hostile

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:08 AM

Wow! So you are suggesting tearing down the existing western governments through revolution? Now we are getting to the truth. And replace it with what?

It sure is amazing what you manage to read into a post. Even when I say the exact opposite, you can accuse me of wanting to tear down Western governments. Do you even read what I write? And by "read" I don't mean "hit every word once with an eye", but "process the information given and understand it". If you do, I'm amazed your brain doesn't explode when I say "white" and you accuse me of saying "black".
This is the part you might have missed when your brain shut down after reading "revolution" in my post.

[...] Not that I myself believe capitalism is such a system beyond repair, but I disagree with the whole idea that revolution has to be bad.

Contrary to what you might think based on my posts on this forum, I'm neither an anarchist, a communist nor a socialist nor anything of that sort. My political ideology is somewhere between classical liberalism (the ideology that founded your country - and mine) and social liberalism. Of course on the typical Fox News scale that would be way beyond the left end, but it's actually very centrist.


There was a time when politians watched Nazi Germany rise and they tried to appease and contain them. They were not successful. So here we are repeating the same mistake by not taking the rise of Islamic Facisim seriously. You can't appease facism. If you give an inch, they take a mile. So you want the US to shut up, take it's toys and go home, and simply watch it happen.

There were many people who thought the same thing of the Nazis, just give them an inch and they'll be happy.

Firstly, the damn thing is called fascism.

Secondly, the US doesn't exactly have a very good track record when it comes to fighting fascism. Sure, you brought down Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in WW2, for which the Europeans will be forever grateful (or at least another 50 years...) and set up democratic countries instead, but that was 70 years ago. Since then you haven't been known to export democracy very much. Maybe you can't appease fascism, but you sure can set it up when it fits you. Chile, anyone?
No, the sad fact is that US supported just about every "fascist" dictator if it fitted their agenda in any way. Be it for regional stability, suppressing islamists, oil, containment of neighbouring states, you name it.

Also, "Islamic Fascism"? Where? Iran? Even with that stretch it makes one country. How many others are you fighting? The ones on the Arab peninsula? I don't think so, relations seem rather cordial there...


The idea of power blocks has existed since the beginning of time. An enemy of my enemy is my friend. That isn't going away any time soon. The US has nukes in it's left pocket and diplomacy in it's right pocket. Don't put the US in a position to have to reach into it's left pocket. Even the US wasn't stupid enough to make the Russians reach into it's left pocket.

Who exactly are you threatening or not threatening with those nukes? Nobody with at least half a brain would use nuclear weapons today. Who is putting the US in a position to use nukes? What kind of hollow threat should that even be? You can bet that the US would lose just about every single ally in the western hemisphere if it did use them...


We have to ask, is there going to be a global police force? Is there some nation that will stand up and try to counter facism in any form? And what nation is most qualified to do that? If some nation invaded your nation, it would be the US that would be the first nation to stop talking and start doing to remove the invader from your nation. Don't forget that. You might despise the US, but it would be the first nation to sacrifice it's youth to free your nation. Don't forget that my allies. ;)

I believe you're stuck in the Cold War somehow. Nonetheless, you have a point. Unfortunately the Europeans don't have enough balls yet to step in when it's really needed (rare cases of humanitarian intervention like in the Balkans in the 90s). For that kind of dirty work you need the Americans. On the other hand, the US grossly overuses its force in cases where it's highly unjustified and with little to no gain (Afghanistan, Iraq).


I do assume that after the decline of one superpower than another will rise. Which one will it be? Which one do you want?

Like I said: none.
Also, prepare for some tough decades ahead if you still don't understand the concept of multilateralism on the international stage. The time will soon come where the US can't simply say what goes. If you don't manage to balance that out with friendly relations and a very different attitude, you'll eventually be left behind.

OMG let us correct the issue for my dyslexic self. It's called fascism, not facism. I suppose that is more important than the subject matter.


Here's an interesting article. Sorry, it's in Dutch (so I guess only Matias can read it :lol:) but it explains why Europe should leave the US behind.

http://www.depers.nl...el-Amerika.html

I totally agree, the US should tell Europe to go to hell. No more funding the IMF or the World Bank, or funding the UN in New York. I'm fully supporting the isolation of Europe by the US. Look at Greece and Portugal. Simply let the Europeans have an epic fail moment. Let them dissolve...;) then they can get all commie and stuff.

Also, "Islamic Fascism"? Where? Iran? Even with that stretch it makes one country. How many others are you fighting? The ones on the Arab peninsula? I don't think so, relations seem rather cordial there...

Are you blind? You don't see the oncoming surge of Islamic immigrants flooding your nation? Demanding Shariah law?! Haven't you noticed Islamic Europe?

I bet you haven't which would normally be fine. Because I don't really give a shit about Europe except for it's strategic location just east of the US.

There are numerous zombies wondering around bumping into each other in Europe that just aren't grasping or are embracing the Islamic "soft jihad" otherwise known as "social jihad"

Also, prepare for some tough decades ahead if you still don't understand the concept of multilateralism on the international stage. The time will soon come where the US can't simply say what goes. If you don't manage to balance that out with friendly relations and a very different attitude, you'll eventually be left behind.


It's going to be a tough couple of decades ahead. No doubt... If you feel the time has come to tell the US to go home, than be my guest and watch the Russian tanks roll through western Europe. And then we'll have to have the whole war thing all over again.You think that the US is the enemy? You should be looking to the east my friend. There are very large nations that are quick to roll right over your happiness, your high speed internet access, and your social programs. They will roll right through to the Atlantic Ocean.

And there is NOTHING the European nations can do to stop them because "you cannot afford a reasonable army." So tell me how all those expensive social programs worked out for you. ;)

You thnk we'll be left behind? The only thing saving your ass is the large stockpile of US nuclear weapons. And the fact we've strategically placed large numbers of US troops in places to deter foreign aggression. And your country did what to hold back the Russians and the Chinese?

I'm sorry, I didn't hear you what you said, what did you say again? Say it louder my ally!

#35 Pasidon

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 05:30 AM

Guhh... had to tune in right when someone posts a novel.

The US is an enemy to the world just as terrorist cells are an enemy to particular parts of the world. But nothing can prove it... and the chances of a US related take-over isn't far from far-fetched. Human instinct and good will are too deep in our government's mind. They may be greedy, but it's hard to imagine even the citizens of the US would allow us to bomb another nation to soot for world domination. And the US has a helping hand in too many nations to deem them a threat. And besides... trying anything involving world domination would be suicidal. It's a "Don't die before I do" scenario.

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#36 mike_

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:01 AM

Ganon; as a fellow American, I'm going to ask you to please stop posting in this topic, or any others concerning our country. You're simply solidifying the image of American ignorance and foolishness on the world stage. You're making the rest of us look bad.

#37 Romanul

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:51 AM

He's claimed plenty of times that he is a fascist.


Happy now?

As for on-topic stuff, I see that no one around understands the fact that the US, no matter what, has economic interest in the countries it invaded in (at least) the past 20 years.

As I said it before, I don't believe in revolutions. Not at all. Maybe just in coups mixed with popular revolt, but nothing more.

Edited by Romanul, 31 January 2011 - 06:53 AM.


#38 duke_Qa

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 07:26 AM

Lolwhut, thought it was Pasidon that posted that picture since that's the guy I connected that pic to. I can't honestly say I've put you in that booth yet. ;) Need to check poster-names more closely next time :lol:

Edit: Also, mike: don't go around telling people to shut up because they have some sort of idiotic opinion on something, that will just leave the opinion festering. I prefer Ganon's presence because he probably is learning something from this.

I totally agree, the US should tell Europe to go to hell. No more funding the IMF or the World Bank, or funding the UN in New York. I'm fully supporting the isolation of Europe by the US. Look at Greece and Portugal. Simply let the Europeans have an epic fail moment. Let them dissolve...../../public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif then they can get all commie and stuff.


I somewhat believe that the EU is moving pretty independent of the US these days, EU military force, EU constitution, EU economic bailouts. We're pretty much where you say we are at, just less chaotic. Naturally some flaws are to be found in nations that you mention, but this I personally believe is caused by laziness and corruption that needs to be rooted out.
On the topic of Islamification of Europe, there has been a dawning realization with Merkel in front that "multiculturalism does not work". France is doing their best at balancing it, Briton is pretty phobic about it, the Netherlands are quite pissed off about it, Even Scandinavia(which have been overly phobic about letting too many Muslim immigrate since the 70s, but then have spoken warmly about because we are not really getting into it) are getting lukewarm about the great Cultural Equality utopia. So that is not going to become a problem. These nations will slowly and surely show that we are not to be pushed around, and we will demand respect for our culture, which usually is much older than this youngster religion.

Edited by duke_Qa, 31 January 2011 - 07:51 AM.

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#39 Ganon

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:07 PM

Ganon; as a fellow American, I'm going to ask you to please stop posting in this topic, or any others concerning our country. You're simply solidifying the image of American ignorance and foolishness on the world stage. You're making the rest of us look bad.


heh heh.
Oh well, I don't articulate what I'm trying to say very well.
This topic is starting to bore me anyway.

As if I could learn anything by listening to a bunch of opinionated fools shout at each other.

#40 Phil

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:58 PM

OMG let us correct the issue for my dyslexic self. It's called fascism, not facism. I suppose that is more important than the subject matter.

Funny how you say that and then it's the main thing you pick out from my post to reply to. Ironic, isn't it?


Here's an interesting article. Sorry, it's in Dutch (so I guess only Matias can read it :p) but it explains why Europe should leave the US behind.
http://www.depers.nl...el-Amerika.html

I totally agree, the US should tell Europe to go to hell. No more funding the IMF or the World Bank, or funding the UN in New York. I'm fully supporting the isolation of Europe by the US. Look at Greece and Portugal. Simply let the Europeans have an epic fail moment. Let them dissolve...;) then they can get all commie and stuff.

I don't believe the US is the right country to lecture others on financial issues. Maybe fix your multi-trillion-dollar-debt first?


Also, "Islamic Fascism"? Where? Iran? Even with that stretch it makes one country. How many others are you fighting? The ones on the Arab peninsula? I don't think so, relations seem rather cordial there...

Are you blind? You don't see the oncoming surge of Islamic immigrants flooding your nation? Demanding Shariah law?! Haven't you noticed Islamic Europe?

I bet you haven't which would normally be fine. Because I don't really give a shit about Europe except for it's strategic location just east of the US.

There are numerous zombies wondering around bumping into each other in Europe that just aren't grasping or are embracing the Islamic "soft jihad" otherwise known as "social jihad"

Apart from the fact that's typical right-wing scaremongering against Muslim immigrants, who are very peaceful for the most part, how does this make any sense in your argument? So if you define the mindset of Muslim immigrants in Europe as this "Islamic Fascism" then how exactly does the US fight it? Last time I checked Germany didn't get lots of terror threats from Islamic terror groups before they took part in that silly war in Afghanistan. But thank God the US is fighting Islamic Fascism by occupying foreign countries. I'm feeling much safer now. By following that logic though, why doesn't the US fight Saudi Arabia?

No, at least for the moment, our domestic right-wingers are a far more dangerous threat to our liberty than the handful of extremist immigrants.


It's going to be a tough couple of decades ahead. No doubt... If you feel the time has come to tell the US to go home, than be my guest and watch the Russian tanks roll through western Europe. And then we'll have to have the whole war thing all over again.You think that the US is the enemy? You should be looking to the east my friend. There are very large nations that are quick to roll right over your happiness, your high speed internet access, and your social programs. They will roll right through to the Atlantic Ocean.

I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. At first I wanted to post "ROFL", but it's actually quite tragic. Where do you get those delusional ideas from? You're really still living in the Cold War. Must be an ultra-conservative thing... if you can't stop the times from changing, just pretend they don't.
Russia!? I mean if you had said China or Iran, I might have understood where it came from, but Russia?!? The Russians would rather join the European Union than attack it. We are not living in the 1960s anymore. The only way Russia is an "enemy" is when they pull political stunts with the gas exports.


And there is NOTHING the European nations can do to stop them because "you cannot afford a reasonable army." So tell me how all those expensive social programs worked out for you. ;)

I think they're working out pretty well, in the grand scale of things. But I guess it's a matter of preference if you'd rather give money to poor people to feed and shelter them or to the military industrial complex to be able to kill and blow shit up in a remote corner of the world. I've always suspected that some Americans valued their guns higher than their fellow citizens.

Speaking of affording a reasonable army. At least we're affording those tiny armed forces you speak of primarily with our own money and not Chinese loans. Tell me how that's working out for you.


You thnk we'll be left behind? The only thing saving your ass is the large stockpile of US nuclear weapons. And the fact we've strategically placed large numbers of US troops in places to deter foreign aggression. And your country did what to hold back the Russians and the Chinese?

Dream on... But lock your door before you do, the evil Russian Communists are out to get you!

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