24 replies to this topic

[rainmaker]

Hi all:

Thanks again to everyone who has taken me to Stealth General school! Just wanted to update this topic now that I have a far better insight into the Stealth General.

I am tagging on a question and some favorite gambits to the end of this current thread (bottom of page 1).

See you on the field of battle!

Original post:

Please take me to Stealth General school! I am an experienced player but I just got started with the stealth general. To tell you the truth, it feels like bringing knives to a gun fight: I am just pumping out infantry when the computer is comfortably starting to roll out the metal, rolling over, burning, out-ranging and out-manouvering my screaming guys.

So I go to my arms dealer, and what do I get? Perhaps the weakest units in the game, that's what! Not since the airforce general's MCV have I seen such a weak excuse for a tank like the missle scorpion.

I think I am just going to list the units and what I do with them, and someone who is experienced with this general can reply and tell my what I *should* be doing with them (anything before level 3)

BTR-50P - needs armory, so then I finally build this thing and it's good for well, uhm? Yeah, if you play against china and need to clear some mines, but that would imply that I am in their base attacking, instead of on the back of my heels defending...

Radar Van - enough said

Worker and Biker Worker - no explanation necessary, biker worker nice to climb ridges on cliff maps

Jihad Warrior - good one: at first I thought these guys rock, they rule all other infantry in early game with their stealth and swiftness. Then comes the first dragon tank, humvee or quad cannon and some scanning, and I am loosing anyway. I do see the advantage though, sneaking in someone's base and taking over buildings, getting the upper hand on oil wells and tech buildings. Summary: good unit, only fair that it's superior, because the rest of my units are sub-par.
PS: Never used these guys on bikes, except to ride accross map to oil well. I suspect they are not camou when on bike, please let me know.


Tunnel Defender - standard rocket defender, does its job - doesn't camouflage though, not even with GPS scrambler! Don't use them on bikes (may be I should?), do they camouflage via GPS scrambler when on bike?

Terrorist - camou terrorists are great in early rush situation, no complaints there. Once on the bike, they are no longer camou though. Don't know whether or not GPS scrambler can fix that.

Missle Scorpion - see above, so what have we here? A short range missle buggy of sorts with medium armor and no melee weapon. Ineffective even in large groups. Don't know how to use this one!

Gun Buggy - this is the maverick unit that I suspect holds some key to this general's dormant abilities. Replaces the Technical with a unit that can have infantry fire from within. Stealth, also nice. But a naked man has more armor than this thing, and I only have use for it in the field meeting unsuspecting enemy units, but it's useless in base attack runs. Please tell me a thing or two about this unit (who should be in it, what is a great gambit with this unit) that I am obviously missing.

Mobile Mortar - same as the other GLA generals, it's great for harrassing and a place holder until the rocket buggy is available. I use this one in hit and run style attacks on enemy defense installations and unprotected expansions. Since it's the same as with the other generals, I think I am comfortable knowing how to operate this one.

Toxin Truck - my only way to clear a garrisoned building (aside from TNT). Otherwise, the tractor has little use for me, against infantry I just use my cool Jihad warriors. Same as other generals, so I think I know how to use this one. Is there any sense in building fake tractors?

Quad cannons - respectable unit, similar to the way it is in the original zero hour. Anti-air and anti-infantry application, with limited use against rolling metal (only if used in large numbers). The interesting (and yet unexplored) aspect that I find is that I can pop out a fake unit for $50. There should be some great gambit to be made with that, so if I am guessing correctly, please flesh out this idea for me and how you would implement that.

______________________________________________
Alright, that's all I got for now. On purpose, I am not getting into level 3 units, because I find it excessively hard to get to level 3. Once I am there, it's easier with the rocket buggies and the bomb trucks, but at that point I have usually allowed the computer to level up to 4 or 5, so I am eventually still getting pummelled.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by rainmaker, 09 August 2011 - 05:52 PM.

[xenomorph]

i start out with a line of base defence (stingersites and the tunnel network) with artillery behind it as defence then i wait till rank 3 if youre doing it right opponent wont reach rank 2 for entire game (yes iam a turtler) works with every general against every general (ai not player) if opponent is usa or china make sure aa defence is mixed in i use infantry only to capture building and most of the time only the infantry giving support powers

[Countess]

Well since Stealth General is my favourite I hope I can help.
As Stealth General you just can´t do normal attacks at the enemy base. Instead you should concentrate on stealthing and sealing your base with camo defence. Gun Buggies (only stealthed when not moving, but stealthed when attacking, so place them early and place them good) placed all across the map with rpg and/or Jihads are great. Dont forget to create a good tunnel network all across the map to be the all seeing, and all bombing, eye.
Mortar buggies are great for attacking enemy forces from behind (tunneling you remember)
Quads are also great to have in tunnels against aircraft or large groups of infantry.
Just try to kill away more troops on their way to your base than you loose. If the enemy attacks your tunnels all over the map or doesnt attack at all try to kill away single buildings using mortar and dont rebuild your tunnel networks. Just place stealthed troops where you need them without using tunnels.
The most important thing is to use small troops and use them with caution. Depending on the map it is a good idea to build your base all across the map, so you cant be directly attacked.
When you reach level 3 build snipers, put them in gun buggies and try to steal enemy tanks. A troop transport for example can be really powerful if used with your snipers and rpg.
In simple words: try not to attack the enemy base with your troops only. Steal away what you can (snipers are way better for this than hijackers). If you can manage to get an enemy builder and rebuild his base, you are on the winner side. I often manage to attack with nuclear tank hunters in stealthed humvees or something like that.
It is true that stealth general is weak, but nobody said you must attack with him alone.
Just remember that only vehicles can be stealthed (important! stealth your harvesters and radar vans, build lots of radar vans for scanning, you must see more than you foe), but ALL vehicles can be stealthed. Dont rely to much on your base defences. Try to build small bases and evacuate them if needed. Dont let your enemy get promoted too soon.
You can use general powers for building fake bases (and upgrade them to become real) and steal away enemy troops with hijacker ambush and such.
If you play with a teammate try to build your base behind his defences. Your base can be really small and your stealthed troops and defence are really good if use together with his stuff.
You can stealth his troops too, so teamplay rocks with this guy.
Hope I could help you.

[rainmaker]

Hope I could help you.

Well, your first post is a great one, countess. I am reading this on my lunch break, but I will test your ideas tonight. This reads like a manual to the Stealth General, I really appreciate it.

It's funny that the one unit you failed to mention is the Scorpion. So am I right, it is just of no good use?

Also, do you, or does anyone reading this have any other good gambits? To define "gambit", by that I mean a tactical move that is particularly clever and can only be done with this general? Countess mentioned the troop crawler loaded with snipers. That's a great one, I love it.

I still feel particularly vulnerable to air. I also find it tough to defend my oil wells from air strikes.

This is now open to any level of the game - I get the sense that you will have to hide, hit and run until you are level 3 before you can get serious about attacking...

[dcesarec]

Fighting stealth vs ai is hard,you must mix plenty of fake units.But against human,stealth kicks ass.Check on strategy topic some replays.

[Countess]

Hope I could help you.

Well, your first post is a great one, countess. I am reading this on my lunch break, but I will test your ideas tonight. This reads like a manual to the Stealth General, I really appreciate it.

It's funny that the one unit you failed to mention is the Scorpion. So am I right, it is just of no good use?

Also, do you, or does anyone reading this have any other good gambits? To define "gambit", by that I mean a tactical move that is particularly clever and can only be done with this general? Countess mentioned the troop crawler loaded with snipers. That's a great one, I love it.

I still feel particularly vulnerable to air. I also find it tough to defend my oil wells from air strikes.

This is now open to any level of the game - I get the sense that you will have to hide, hit and run until you are level 3 before you can get serious about attacking...

*blushing* Thanks

The reason I didnt mention the scorpion is, I never really used it. Maybe its a good thing, maybe not. Try it if you like, I didnt. If you find some good use for it, please let me know.

Against Air strikes the best you can do is using radar vans and quad cannons. Place the radar van in front of the quads, so the aircrafts are detected early. gun buggies work well here too, since they can defend themselves.
Since the troop crawler idea seemed to enjoy you, try the same thing with Overlord tanks (I like these big flame things, forgot their name, from Flame general, too). If you can manage to capture an USA supply, or china airfield, use helicopters with snipers and rpg. Easy to see, but powerful, use this only if money doesnt matter!

About the gambits... try to build a base spread across the whole map without any real defence. Dont build anything in main attacking routes of course. The logical places like dead ends are no good idea against humans either. But you can really kick ass, if you play a 4 player all against all. Leave your starting base to be destroyed and rebuild anywhere else. They know you are there, but they simply cannot afford to search. You can hit and run their attacking troops and get your rank up. Dont forget to care for money. It is possible to use Bounty alone for your living, since your troops are cheap. So you cannot be found at resource hardpoints, or at least only your stealthed mobile harvesters (I love this stuff).

[rainmaker]

Thanks both, dcesarek and countess. As a note on the side, I searched the forum for "Stealth General", yet the strategy post calls it "Stealth Gen" and therefore my search didn't find it. And it's been so long since I read the strategy post that I forgot it was even in there. However, what I did find there was and is very informative.

Meanwhile, I like countess' gambits. I just don't ever want to be on the receiving end I think.

Tonight I have a tournament at my house, me and 5 other guys are doing what countess would call a "Netzwerk Abend", which is german for "LAN party" or "game night". At least that's what we used to call it when I was younger and lived there.

I have had no luck winning a 1v1 against the SW general (easy/low AI). I held it off and then finally got Hazael's to take a bite out of the base, little by little, while getting pummelled with air strikes, tomahawk storms, particle cannons and you name it. So I went to bed at midnight knowing I could have won it in perhaps another 3 hours...

Tonight will be different though, I will have my fellow human players, and we usually go 2v2v2, so I got a partner I can leverage with my abilities. That should be fun.

One gambit (ok, tactical move, since it's not all *that* clever) that I came up with yesterday was to build 30 Saboteurs at a time (late game, obviously), and run them into the supply center, effectively stealing $30k from the computer in one fell swoop. That slowed it down for a couple of minutes, although since it cheats, it didn't take too long to bounce back (gets cheaper units, faster).

I will come back and let you know how I make out tonight.

[rainmaker]

It was an epic game night! As suggested above by the other posters, the Stealth General worked much better versus human opponents, than versus AIs. I can post some replays if requested, all in all we played 3 games with 6 people in each.

The first game I was partnered with a China Tank general and a China Infantry, and I supplied buggies and assassins (snipers) mixed into their tank force, which I stealthed, courtesy of my GPS scrambler. The first to fall was a China Tank General who lost a whole squad of tanks to my snipers. Then it was a 3v2 against a remaining Cyber Gen and a GLA Demo. GLA Demo held out the longest, but didn't have an answer for the continued pressure.

The second game crashed about 1 hour into the game ("game detected a mismatch"), but it was shaping up to be a tough 3v3 on the map Iron Dragon. As you might imagine, we had a door-to-door battle in the towns, and my favorite, the cementary fight for the cannon at the north/12 o'clock. GLA Demo general was on my team this time, stepping it up from last game. I also had another GLA partner, I forget which general though, so we were 3 GLA vs. 3 China (2 Tank, 1 USA Air I think). This game could have gone either way, at the time of the crash I had just lost the middle oil wells to destruction following a comanche helicopter RAID (I am still weak vs. air).

The third game was a 6 way ffa with everyone playing GLA Assault, so that's off-topic as far as the Stealth General is concerned. It was still a good game though, in fact the most fun game of the night. 4 of us made level 5 and at one point a player was rolling 9 (nine!) Desert Cruiser super-tanks accross the map. That's probably why the game crashed, too ("game detected a mismatch"). By then, it had been pretty much decided though.

I think the best play I did with the Stealth General was to use the GPS scrambler on my partner's mixed group of tanks. Also good, but you won't be able to tell, is the amount of panic cries I got when I rolled in with several fake bomb trucks (and 1 real). That's what makes this general fun. I will keep on practicing, I think I am going to stick with it for a while to come.

[Su8perkillr]

Sounds like some great fun indeed =) You have brought me on new ideas to play stealth gen, I had much trouble with him myself =)

[Countess]

Ah, nice one with those bomb trucks. Looks like you found a good way to play stealth. I think he´s playes best in coop matches. Yesterday I had one with an air Force gen by my side. He shut down the enemy stealth checking and opened a little bit of his defences for my saboteurs, I sneaked in and sabotaged his energy supply (he was laser). The last thing he saw were my comrades air force and my tunnel in his base. His partner now stood against my airforce buddy, me and my new laser weapons.
Thats why I love playing stealth. Its like a birthday present, you never know what you get in the end.

About your air problem:
Try stationary defence combined with Quad Cannons, both stealthed of course. Dont forget to put some scanning with them.

[dcesarec]

If you play with human player in team,an easy way to win fast is if your partner is sw and you are stealth.Build fast command vehicle and scramble his dozer,he would be able to rush with defence while stealthed.This strategy used me and casojin a lot.

[Countess]

If you play with human player in team,an easy way to win fast is if your partner is sw and you are stealth.Build fast command vehicle and scramble his dozer,he would be able to rush with defence while stealthed.This strategy used me and casojin a lot.

We use a very similar strategy. We start it once my comrade is rank 3, then he places some patriots just outside the enemies range of view. Then some long range defences behind the patriots and now the party starts. Your can do this one alone, if you manage to capture a dozer with some snipers (dozer capturing is our favourite, we had a game with both of us playing 4 generals at once this way)

btw, did you know you can finish any building with any worker/dozer once its started? e.g. start building a war factory with your tank dozer, finish it with your stealth worker and start building an airfield with the same tank dozer...
You can build a large base outside your main base using this little trick without putting your stolen dozer in danger.

[dcesarec]

Ofcourse i do,project members are not noobs. When it comes to contra,we are like s.w.a.t. team
And when it comes to cybernetic or stealth general,i am like pro.

[rainmaker]

Just pulled off my first win versus the "insane" AI last night. It's getting easier now. Looks like the computer struggles with fake units, fake buildings and stealthed units in the field.

Also learned the hard way that the bio-bomb upgrade is really more of a hinderance then help. I waited until level 3 and then had 10 factories cranking out bomb trucks which I rolled into this super-weapons general's base, but because of the toxin spill with each truck, I kept loosing many more trucks than I should have.

Just like with every other general, some fine-tuning is still in order, but I get the gist now. Thanks for all the suggestions, who would have thought that there is so much love out there for this general?

[lil tasman]

You should play on Hamachi sometime. Im not the best, so it would probably be a fair fight between us...

[rainmaker]

I think it's not well-known, but the best Contra games are on GameRanger these days (IMHO). It works differently than Hamachi in that it uses the peer-to-peer function from inside the game. Speaking as a IT infrastructure consultant (my job), I prefer GameRanger over Hamachi because you are not doing a split tunnel (all packets go through the same connection), which makes the games faster and more stable.

I always enjoy a challenge. I usually have 2 other friends on Friday nights on GameRanger, we play Contra 007 exclusively. I'll keep you posted.

Edited by rainmaker, 16 June 2011 - 02:50 AM.

[lil tasman]

Alright, I also have Gameranger but I never play online much....

[rainmaker]

Alright, I also have Gameranger but I never play online much....

Here is a list of people that I know that play Contra on GameRanger. My nickname is "westvolk". These people don't necessarily know me, but I have been in games with them and subsequently put them on my 'friends' list. So all you do is add them to your friends list and when you see them online, hit them up for Contra. I don't think I ever got turned down for a game...

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[rainmaker]

I am getting the hang now. Just came out the winner on a 1 vs 4 allied, insane AIs on the map Mountain Guns. And better still, I finally killed more units than killed me. Map control is so easy with this general, gotta love it.

I attached my stats from the game.

Also, does the Hazael have a second, smaller gun that kills infantry? It seems that way, but it's tough to tell. Anyone know?

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[Countess]

Im happy you like stealth. He can be a real pain in the ass, if you know how to play him.
Are you from Germany? Your Nickname sounds like German to me. (I have to know, I´m living there)