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US Debt Battle


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#1 duke_Qa

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:25 AM

Figured it was about time to create a thread about this event as well, since we only got a thread on the EU economy being unstable right now.

There has been more and more news about the sneakier ways of getting around this argument now, like minting trillion-dollar platinum coins and other sneaky ways to stop things from going wrong. This article even adds voldemort into the mix, because its the solution "which must not be mentioned" for some reason.

I also like the first user comment below that article, but that might be my rational hate against naysayers which the republicans seems to have many of:

t's very hard to see how Obama's invocation of the 14th Amendment would rise to the Constitutional standards for impeachment, those being treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors. Nothing in that language speaks to dubious interpretations of Constitutional language. Which means that the impeachment would be revealed as yet another right-wing effort at the political assassination of a Democratic president, the second in a row no less, and one all the more transparent because it lacks even the veneer of legitimacy provided by Bill Clinton's allegedly heinous crime of lying under oath about sex. The result is that GOP reveals itself to be nothing more than a free-range lunatic asylum. And, aside from the carefully walled-off lunatic asylums that are the DC broadcast media and right-wing Christianity, almost no one will be able not to see the GOP for what it is. In other words, from Obama's and the Democrats' perspective, invocation of the 14th Amendment as a desperate last-ditch effort to save the country's financial system in the face of GOP intransigence, followed by impeachment (rather than "laser-like focus on job creation") by the same fools who were the source of that intransigence, might lead to the effective destruction of the GOP as a political force in the country. Two impeachments of Democratic presidents in 15 years on specious partisan grounds, George W. Bush, and bringing the country to the brink of insolvency ... sounds like a plan for political suicide to me.





so, what is your opinion of this situation? I have no clue what's going to happen now, I'm just waiting for someone to make a ballsy move and kick some ass really, but I doubt that will happen. This is IMO, the big ideological battle of big government that keeps the economy safe vs small government that keeps the capitalists happy. I would have loved to see the republicans and their supporters get annihilated by this, but I doubt it.



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#2 Elvenlord

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 04:31 PM

Yeah, the GOP will not go away anytime soon. They have far too much support, especially in the South. For some reason. I'm thinking we should just have let them go during the Civil War.

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#3 duke_Qa

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:15 PM

Wasn't Lincoln a republican?

I think this is mostly an old American arch-capitalist brainwashing still stuck in people's minds. They think bigger governments will eat their souls, but they are already being dined upon by greedier men with less scruples.

Anyway, seems that some things are happening these days. There seems to be a compromise where Obama doesn't need to have this discussion again before after the elections, but there also seems to be no mentioning of higher taxes. But I'd say this has been a wake-up call for those that think the republicans are good for the economy.

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#4 Námo

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:38 PM

US debt limit:

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... and in pct. of GDP:

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By the time of 2012 election approaching 120% of GDP? ... looking rather similar to Greece. Conclusion: the US will not keep its AAA rating for long.
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#5 Romanul

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:47 PM

No, but I suppose that they will come to a agreement, no matter what.

I don't think the US will go bankrupt, really. It would be retarded, and the whole American nation would look retarded.

#6 duke_Qa

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:23 PM

Out of those 140% since 2000, 31.1% can be put down to inflation. Still a doubling though, which can probably be related to some wars.

I have to say the republicans have been having a good thing going, removing taxes and raising the debt limit while they are running the show, and then leave the bill with the democrats, forcing them to clean up their mess and look bad compared to them.
Its like some bad friend has you arrange a party, drinks up all your booze and eats up all your food, and the day afterwards when you are cleaning up the mess, he gets the cops to show up on your door for making a ruckus with the vacuum cleaner or something.

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#7 Romanul

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 07:29 AM

http://www.bloomberg...-be-active.html

Finally, they reached an agreement.

#8 Námo

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 10:45 AM

< sarcasm >

Nothing like waking up to a world where all our problems are fixed.

< /sarcasm >
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#9 Elvenlord

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:32 PM

Wasn't Lincoln a republican?


At that time the republican party was formed as an anti-slavery party and was fairly liberal for the time. Democrats were the conservative southern states. Go figure.

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#10 Beowulf

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 01:39 AM

There's a bill on the table to raise the debt ceiling again. It's going through the Senate tomorrow. Should pass to keep us from having a meltdown.

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#11 Námo

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:57 AM

... or just kicking the can down the road.
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#12 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 01:14 PM

If the US did lose their AAA rating maybe they'll have to actually start thinking about change.
There is so much failing in the states they'll have to make changes.
They can't keep racking up debt,funding wars,giving foreign aid and bailing out Banks.

They'll have to look at the purse strings.
Which from what I've heard is sort of what the compromise does reduces spending including reducing War spending.
Sooner or later there will have to be reform,someone's going to have to crack the books.

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#13 Beowulf

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:35 AM

... or just kicking the can down the road.

Not exactly. The latest bill, which passed already, requires a huge cut in spending to the tune of 1.5 trillion so it's a step in cutting spending where's not needed (hopefully it's in defense spending). If it's not met, the ceiling won't rise much higher. I suspect this will actually be the start of something positive. That is provided my government quits acting like five year olds and learns how to work together instead of fighting against each other like spoiled douchebags.

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#14 Copaman

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:16 PM

Not exactly. The latest bill, which passed already, requires a huge cut in spending to the tune of 1.5 trillion so it's a step in cutting spending where's not needed (hopefully it's in defense spending). If it's not met, the ceiling won't rise much higher. I suspect this will actually be the start of something positive. That is provided my government quits acting like five year olds and learns how to work together instead of fighting against each other like spoiled douchebags.


Wait, what? You mean to say you don't think congressmen are spoiled douchebags?

I agree, I think it the start of something good. Taxes will have to be raised at some point in the future in order to get the debt truly under control, however, and the republicans fail to realize that. What we truly need is to stabilize the economy for a bit, continue with the reduced spending, and then hike taxes.

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#15 Námo

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:41 PM

I think it the start of something good.

QE3 on the horizon? ... well, the earlier versions of Quantitative Easing didn't make any differences to the downward spiraling American economy.

Edited by Námo, 03 August 2011 - 06:55 PM.

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#16 duke_Qa

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:08 PM

Spiraling is better than plummeting though, meteoric plummeting to be exact. Half empty cup and all that you know... If the economic philosophies were the same today as they were in the 30s we all would have been out in the fields picking potatoes to survive. The wheel turns ever so slowly, but at least it is turning.

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#17 Námo

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:14 AM

Werther the story is quite accurate or not, this is what Bernanke should tell in public:

Drunken Ben Bernanke Tells Everyone At Neighborhood Bar How Screwed U.S. Economy Really Is

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The intoxicated Federal Reserve chairman informs bar patrons of the dangers of reckless spending.


SEWARD, NE — Claiming he wasn't afraid to let everyone in attendance know about "the real mess we're in," Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke reportedly got drunk Tuesday and told everyone at Elwood's Corner Tavern about how absolutely fucked the U.S. economy actually is.

Bernanke, who sources confirmed was "totally sloshed," arrived at the drinking establishment at approximately 5:30 p.m., ensconced himself upon a bar stool, and consumed several bottles of Miller High Life and a half-dozen shots of whiskey while loudly proclaiming to any patron who would listen that the economic outlook was "pretty goddamned awful if you want the God's honest truth."

"Look, they don't want anyone except for the Washington, D.C. bigwigs to know how bad shit really is," said Bernanke, slurring his words as he spoke. "Mounting debt exacerbated—and not relieved—by unchecked consumption, spiraling interest rates, and the grim realities of an inevitable worldwide energy crisis are projected to leave our entire economy in the shitter for, like, a generation, man, I'm telling you."

"And hell, as long as we're being honest, I might as well tell you that a truer estimate of the U.S. unemployment rate is actually up around 16 percent, with a 0.7 percent annual rate of economic growth if we're lucky — if we're lucky," continued Bernanke, nearly knocking a full beer over while gesturing with his hands. "Of course, if everybody knew that, it would likely cripple financial markets across the entire fucking globe, even in various emerging economies with self-sustaining growth."

After launching into an extended 45-minute diatribe about shortsighted moves by "those bastards in Congress" that could potentially exacerbate the nation's already deeply troublesome budget imbalance, the Federal Reserve chairman reportedly bought a round of tequila shots for two customers he had just met who were seated on either side of him, announcing, "I love these guys."

Numerous bar patrons slowly nodded in agreement as Bernanke went on to suggest the United States could pass three or four more stimulus packages and "it wouldn't even matter."

"You think that's going to create long-term economic growth, let alone promote job creation?" Bernanke said. "We're way beyond that, my friend. There are no jobs, okay? There's nothing. I think that calls for another drink, don't you?"

[...]

Customers at the bar told reporters the "shitfaced" and disruptive Bernanke refused to pay for his drinks with U.S. currency, claiming it was "worthless." ...

The story is courtesy of The Onion ;)

Edited by Námo, 04 August 2011 - 07:16 AM.

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#18 Beowulf

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 09:51 AM

Wait, what? You mean to say you don't think congressmen are spoiled douchebags?

You're not serious, right? Please tell me you're not fucking serious.

Spiraling is better than plummeting though, meteoric plummeting to be exact. Half empty cup and all that you know... If the economic philosophies were the same today as they were in the 30s we all would have been out in the fields picking potatoes to survive. The wheel turns ever so slowly, but at least it is turning.

Spiraling is still a bad thing though. The economy needs to start trending upward instead of dropping ever so slowly. Too bad there's no easy fix...

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#19 Námo

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:54 AM

Looks like the US economy is in worse shape than many of the troubled European countries, even before the Govt. debt ceiling target of 120%/GDP:

Posted Image


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#20 Copaman

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:07 PM

You're not serious, right? Please tell me you're not fucking serious.


Lobbyists say hi :)

I don't mean to say they're all spoiled douches. I've met some of my congressional/senate representatives and some of them were quite pleasant and I agree with some of their views. That being said there are definitely some congressmen who are spoiled douches, and I wouldn't trust half of them as far as I could throw them when it comes to actually representing the population.

I too feel like they need to stop acting like 5 year olds in the sandbox. For goodness' sake, we're all citizens of the same nation. They might be able to spin some kind of golden parachute into a bill somehow but at the end of the day their prosperity is directly proportional to the nation's. If America goes down the shitter, we all do. Except for maybe the very very top CEOs and such. I hope.

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If you meet me:

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