30 replies to this topic

[Claymore]

Full image: http://imageshack.us...1182323244.jpg/

With some graphics tweaks to the depth of field mod, the BT mod looks sometimes better than DOW2 :-) The balance seems to be quite good already and I would have to play a lot of games before making any suggestions. What apparently needs to be polished in beta-3 is inconsistency in sound volumes in sounds, speeches and music. The new ones are often way louder than they should be, which might overdrive the overall sound output.

[thudo]

Yeah normalization has to take place for all of those speech files. However, just getting all units for any War40k scripted AND voiced is in itself a MAJOR challenge so to take Jones to the next level would set this project into the unique realm of SL, IDH, HRM, DA, and WH_AS which all have custom voices fully in-game. We got ALOT coming for everything.

[Claymore]

I understand :-)

[thudo]

Yer not volunteering for doing speech post-processing are you?

ok if now.. I just haven't got around to working on the BT voices.

[Claymore]

There's some project I need to take care of first and you did amazing job on the postprocessing :-) Dealing with the voice actors again would likely give me a headache but if you just need to fix the sound / music / speech volumes and have no time to do it that's something I could do (sooner or later) :-)

[thudo]

Volumes and normalizing is easy now that I use batching in latest SoundForge. I find because some VAs record differently in various conditions I have to change based on what they give me. What I find the most challenging is building SF scripts to crop a single set of voices in one submitted mp3/wav file and region each line into a seperate file. Its the detection of where the voice begins and then ends that is frustrating as it works for some VAs and others not.

I probably could pick your brain on this and will need some criticisms/comments when I submit all my Legion of the Damned voices.. That will be MASSIVE! Stuff no one has heard in War40k-dom. Just need to get it done as its almost finished.

[Claymore]

As for the voice detection, I have no experience with SF or it's scripts but the detector would likely work better if noise gate was applied before the detection process. Somewhere in SF there is either a noise gate effect or a compressor with noise gate settings. The maximum rms or peak level in decibels (whatever you noise gate uses) of the microphone noise between the phrases should be the level that triggers the gate. Once you adjust the gate to suit your needs, in ideal case it should eliminate all noise between phrases and the detection should be easier.

I always tweaked volumes by hand but the Inquisition soundtrack with 24 tracks, combined with my obsession of endless tweaking made it mission impossible. That's when I had to advert to measuring the RMS levels, simply compare maximum rms levels and they should tell you where to go. Skirmish music files in DOW also don't go over -6 db (peak value, not RMS) but I think it is safe to go to to -5 or even -4 db. The music tracks in BT have maximum peaks at 0db and ingame volume 0.7 and 0.6 (Imperium) while the vanilla tracks have ingame volume = 0.200000. This is why they are so loud. It's not a problem in the menu but it will leave less room for speeches and sounds during the gameplay. But they completely and utterly kick ass, which is probably why they volume looks like this, haha :-) I also didn't expect the Imperium track to be used as skirmish music. But it works, I'll send you the source file so that you can tweak it.

Edited by Claymore, 26 August 2011 - 10:51 PM.

[thudo]

Ah.. yeah thats likely what I've been missing.

[Claymore]

I should probably ask one more thing. The mod changes a lot of sounds and volumes of the vanilla space marine race, as a legacy from Firestorm over Kaurava.
Is the plan to keep it as it is, change the volumes so that it matches vanilla or change most sounds back to vanilla? I ask because about 2 months ago I went through all the sounds, reverted most back to their original state apart from the obvious improvements like lascannon or assault cannon and fixed the volumes on those. But I didn't know what would be the opinion about this in the team so I didn't post the update anywhere and played with it myself. So if you are after option nr.3, I didn't delete the public beta installation yet. :-)

[jONES1979]

change the volumes so that it matches vanilla or change most sounds back to vanilla?

It seems, I can not understand this part.


If you are talking about sound-FX-es like lascannon or assault cannon, bolters firing, etc, than: Yes, I'm very happy with FOK's updated sounds.Is they are not good?

[Claymore]

Vanilla means the original made by Relic. I wanted to know if there's a plan to unify the volume levels between the original game and the mod or a plan to get back to the original sounds.

If you are talking about sound-FX-es like lascannon or assault cannon, bolters firing, etc, than: Yes, I'm very happy with FOK's updated sounds.Is they are not good?

They are much louder than the original sounds and replace them as well, which means that if you combine mods you will hear Black Templar heavy bolter on Steel Legion chimera, for example. As the volumes in Black Templars mod are different than in the Steel Legion mod, the heavy bolter will also be much louder than other weapons when playing with the Steel Legion army.

I think some of the FOK sounds are great and some of them are around the quality of original Relic sounds, which means they should likely be stored inside Data/Sound/Races/Black_templars/ directory and not in Data/Sound/Races/space_marines/ directory so that they don't have an influence on original DOW races and other mods. But that would require changing all the links to these sounds in Object editor...

[Shodar87]

IMo visual changes (visual scale), FoK-cam and custom FoK sounds should be added as option. Or at least those changes should not affect anything outside BT race. So if somebody like me dislike stuff like that he should be able to not install that. Aside of that you did amazing job with conversion of FoK add-on to SS. Awesome mod looking forward to V3

[Gambit]

This is already done, but not included into last public build

Great!

Ok master Jones, my first PT report for the current public Beta3 built (I included the fix). Sorry if some are already mentioned/reported by other guys, I had no time to check.

Most issues are trivial, as expected.

General Issues
(Though you said that: "Squad CAP "increasing" redefined.", I have to report this (but you most possibly fixed it!))
-The Castellan rises the maximum squad cap limit by one. If he is not present, the max squad limit is 19. Is this normal? (it is not stated in his UCS entries as it is for the chaplan)

-Techmarine Builders are attachable!!!

-Techmarine Builders cannot be transported by Land Raider Crusader. Is this normal?

Cover Bonuses
-Most vehicles are not affected by cover bonuses at all. Is this as planned?
-The Land Rider crusader has the shield icon above the model, but no UI shield.
-The Dreadnought has the shield icon inside the model!! (You must be very observative to spot it.)
-Nearly all infantry squads are affected by the cover bonus, but most lack the shield above the models (including techmarine builders).

-Land Raider Crusader and Land Speeder have some graphical issues with white lines above/around the models. (I guess you already know of this..)

-Suggestion: I would very much like to see a change to the drop-pod deep strike logo of the orbital relay. Can you use the chapter's badge? Moreover, the Stronghold-Barracks could have the same teleport deep strike logo change.....

-Terminators cannot enter the Orbital Relay for drop-pod deep strike (they can only teleport deep strike from the barracks). Is this as designed?

-Smoke Launchers upgrade: It states that it applies to Rhinos (and the Rhino UCS states the same), but it is also applies to MOST vehicles! Note that other vehicles' UCS do no state that they can be upgraded with Smoke Launchers You should rectify this.


UCS-Related
-Just like Plasma Generators (second UCS entry), Heavy Bolter Turrets should also have a UCS entry that states that "each (HQ) can support a limited number".

-Heavy Armor Deployment upgrade should state in third line "... Land Raider Crusader"

-Sword Brethrens squad: Shouldn't it be Brethren and NOT Brethrens? (I haven't red the CODEX, sorry)

-In the Machine Cult, 3 Rhinos can be produced (which is OK), yet the UCS states "Limit: 6".

-Machine cult, last UCS line: Change "..and Land Raider Crusader" to "..and the Land Rider Crusader".

-Both grenade wargear upgrades have tiny inconsistencies as to what units get them. (I will be more specific if you want me to, but I think this is something that requires your opinion on what should be mentioned)


I assume balance is YOUR field of expertise Jones, and I trust you judgement. From a quick look tough, everything seem fine.


I haven't tested yet:
(everything related to) Models/squads; commander's abilities; all Armory upgrades; Vows; units' damage indication, plus some other tiny stuff. Sorry, my time is limited today!!!
Expect my second PT report, tomorrow.

Edited by Gambit, 12 December 2011 - 01:56 PM.

[jONES1979]

Sorry, have no time to expanded reply, so only shortly, by memory.

-Techmarine Builders are attachable!!!

Yes! And you can assign skull-probe to him!

-Techmarine Builders cannot be transported by Land Raider Crusader. Is this normal?

Probably no, it is not normal.

-Suggestion: I would very much like to see a change to the drop-pod deep strike logo of the orbital relay. Can you use the chapter's badge? Moreover, the Stronghold-Barracks could have the same teleport deep strike logo change.....

Yes, and I think about it all the time I see "default" one

-Terminators cannot enter the Orbital Relay for drop-pod deep strike (they can only teleport deep strike from the barracks). Is this as designed?

Yes, it is the same as for vanilla SM. Terminators can only "deep-strike" from barrack. All others incl dreads can only "drop-pod" from the OR

-Sword Brethrens squad: Shouldn't it be Brethren and NOT Brethrens? (I haven't red the CODEX, sorry)

Yes, it should by Brethren and NOT Brethrens, as it written in codex. I remember that I fixed it ones.. Hmmm

[Gambit]

I said:

-Techmarine Builders are attachable!!!

And you replied:

Yes! And you can assign skull-probe to him!

I like this a lot, but you can also attach other commanders to him, and this is not codex-compatible...
But you are right. Since attachment cannot be selective, we can always trust player's discretion.


Ok, my second PT report...
-Castellan's voice is of higher volume (a bit) than the other units.

-Strange issue...: When a dreadnought is produced, after about 10 secs, ALL its upgrades and abilities buttons DISAPEAR! They are OK back again after about another 10 secs....

-Wargear:Bionics upgrade, affects the health of ALL infantry squads (including the terminators) excluding only the sword brethren. The UCS second line is not correct. (Morale changes are correctly sated in the UCS)
-Wargear:Bionics upgrade level 2 has the same problem, omitting the same units that are also affected.
Moreover, it also affects the morale of the units as in the first upgrade but there is no UCS entry stating it. Please include the morale entry of the first upgrade (which states the correct units) to the second one, as well.

-Both Veteran/Hero commander upgrades state that they increase maximum damage dealt by commander units, but they do not. Damages remain the same. Moreover, only the castellan and chaplain are affected, the command squad is NOT affected by the upgrades. Shouldn't it? (its can be considered a "commanders" squad...)

-Wargear plasma pistols research does not upgrade the bolt-pistols of crusader squad initiates (and possibly others, I didn't check very well...).

-Wargear power weapons last line refers to the "Force Commander". It should state "Castellan".

-Wargear power weapons state that it also affect sword brethren. But after the upgrade they STILL have their chainswords...

-Wargear Power fists state that they affect the apothecary and the castellan, but it does not (the models maintain their previous weapons)

-Crusader seals upgrade does not affect assault initiates.

-The button that gives the castellan the terminator armor has poor UCS. Is this changeable?

-Stronghold Barracks should have a UCS entry that states: "It can teleport terminator units to the battlefield, including the castellan in terminator armor."

-Stronghold Barracks: in the Allows Buildings line, the "." should change to ",".

-Sacred Artifacts research states that it provides Land raider (crusader, I think it is also missing here) with improved shielding. I could not see any change after the upgrade, though (no shield). Is it OK?

-The units that follow show NO indication in the UI stats panel as to which target they are good against: Castellan (not termie), dreadnoughts (and some of their weapon upgrades), rhino, razorback (and heavy flamer and assault cannon upgrades), damocles.
Moreover, many units lack UI stats panel descriptions as to what they are good against at. Their upgrades sometimes also omit to provide this in the UI stats panel. For example, the chaplain is good against daemons as well (as stated in the ucs), but this is not included in the ui stats panel.

-Terminator squads (both types) third entry states "..from this structure." But when they are on the battlefield, this is wrong info as they are no longer in any building... Can this be changed to "... form the stronghold barracks building" ?

-Rhino third UCS line mentions Dozer Blade and reinforced armor upgrades. What/where are these upgrades?

-Rino's name in UCS is Rhino Transport, instead ...just rhino (a tiny issue, I know).

-Full Scale Crusade Attack (HQ addon 2) does not upgrade the HPs of the Crusade Landing Site. Is this normal? (the first add-on, does)

-Smoke launchers state that they throw smoke at the targeted location, but this is ot the case (smoke appears around the vehicle, instantly).

-Machine Spirit ability of the vindicators should UCS-state that smoke launchers are unavailable as long as the machine spirit is in effect... (if you click machine spirit, smoke launchers are unavailable.) On the other hand, you CAN chose smoke launchers first, and THEN machine spirit.... What gives?

-Neophyte UCS second entry state "...of a Initiative...", while it should be "an".

-The sword brethren squad can be upgraded with "Upgrade: power weapon". The icon of the upgrade in the squad's weapon upgrades panel show a sword. And the UCS states that "power axes..". When I checked the squad, I show power swords. And after some tests, a power axe appeared! I do not remember the combination of choices, but it DID happen... Is this a strange glitch?
Or it is randomized, and sometimes a power axe appears?
If the last case is correct, I suggest:
1] Include a line that also states the benefits of power swords. (for axes, the entry is OK)
2] Include in a previous ucs line that the unit will be benefited from EITHER a power axe OR a power sword.
3] If it is possible, change the icon (that currently demonstrates a sword) to demonstrate BOTH weapons....

-The standard bearer does NOT provide a morale bonus to nearby squads as he should...
-On the other hand, the castellan in terminator armor has an aura that increases damage AND morale (normal castellan has NO such ability). It is not stated anywhere in the UCS...

-Vow: Suffer not the unclean to live, UCS first line states: "-The Crusade Swears..." instead "-The Crusade swears..."


BT First Impression
Man, I like the BT very much. Excellent work! I guess one must study (play test) something in order to see its value/quality/beauty. There is a lot of work behind this project...

P.S.: I made this report late this night. It took me 3 hours, it was too late and I was tired, so please forgive possible inconsistencies....

Edited by Gambit, 13 December 2011 - 01:25 AM.

[thudo]

@Gambit - massive salute bro! This is exceptional beta testing once more. Thorough, point-form, fast! Gawd.. please keep going. WE NEED YOU!

[thudo]

No hyjacking this thread, bro.. IDH will come out 4 years since the release of the DC one. Harlequins.. in-progress.. Back to BT now...

[jONES1979]

Yeah, massive input, thank you, Gambit!!!!

-Wargear plasma pistols research does not upgrade the bolt-pistols of crusader squad initiates (and possibly others, I didn't check very well...).

It should not. It just "unlock" p-pistols for players selective upgrade.

-Sacred Artifacts research states that it provides Land raider (crusader, I think it is also missing here) with improved shielding. I could not see any change after the upgrade, though (no shield). Is it OK?

It increase LRC's "armour minimum" parameter. (http://forums.relicn...-Actually-Works) So it constantly consume some damage. At least it should

-Rhino third UCS line mentions Dozer Blade and reinforced armor upgrades. What/where are these upgrades?

.... This feature was removed. UCS need to be corrected.

-Crusader seals upgrade does not affect assault initiates.

It is affect!  research_templar_race.htm   87.04KB   317 downloads
And this upgrade also unlock "Melee Leap" feature for ASM
And "switch" Righteous Zeal bonuses to the next level

-The sword brethren squad can be upgraded with "Upgrade: power weapon". The icon of the upgrade in the squad's weapon upgrades panel show a sword. And the UCS states that "power axes..". When I checked the squad, I show power swords. And after some tests, a power axe appeared! I do not remember the combination of choices, but it DID happen... Is this a strange glitch?
Or it is randomized, and sometimes a power axe appears?

Yes, it is randomized. As it is in TT "codex" power swords are the same as power axes.

-The standard bearer does NOT provide a morale bonus to nearby squads as he should...

SB have ability-aura \abilities\templar_inspiring_aura_banner.rgd . It increase min/max damage and morale restoration speed in 25m radius around

-On the other hand, the castellan in terminator armor has an aura that increases damage AND morale (normal castellan has NO such ability). It is not stated anywhere in the UCS...

It is my modding approach to not include EVERITHIN in the UCS. So such small differences/tricks should be felt by player, not been just read from UCS. Yep, casual players will never notice such "features", but I dont care about casual players

Edited by jONES1979, 13 December 2011 - 03:55 AM.

[Gambit]

Jones, all your answers were enlightening! I have only ONE minor objection:
You said:

...such small differences/tricks should be felt by player, not been just read from UCS. Yep, casual players will never notice such "features", but I dont care about casual players

I generally agree - I don't care about casual players, as well.
My Objection: On the other hand, an aura that increases BOTH max damage AND max morale to the surrounding troops is something quite serious, and thus worth referring into the .ucs...

Off-Topic
You also said:

"It is my modding approach to not include EVERITHIN in the UCS.

As you must already have noticed, I am a UCS "lover" and I like complete UCS descriptions - but I have to agree, UCS is not that serious... It is just me being a perfectionist

Edit :
I said:

-The standard bearer does NOT provide a morale bonus to nearby squads as he should...

And you replied:

SB have ability-aura \abilities\templar_inspiring_aura_banner.rgd . It increase min/max damage and morale restoration speed in 25m radius around

Then I suggest it would be better if the UCS stated "morale regeneration bonus", and not "morale bonus". I believe the standard bearer deserves a special UCS treatment, as he is a very special character. But, as you pointed out, it IS a trivial issue, plus the UCS is not something you focus at, so I guess this statement of mine is pointless...
But I still just had to say it!

Edited by Gambit, 13 December 2011 - 02:27 PM.

[jONES1979]

I said:

-The standard bearer does NOT provide a morale bonus to nearby squads as he should...

And you replied:

SB have ability-aura \abilities\templar_inspiring_aura_banner.rgd . It increase min/max damage and morale restoration speed in 25m radius around

Then I suggest it would be better if the UCS stated "morale regeneration bonus", and not "morale bonus". I believe the standard bearer deserves a special UCS treatment, as he is a very special character. But, as you pointed out, it IS a trivial issue, plus the UCS is not something you focus at, so I guess this statement of mine is pointless...
But I still just had to say it!

But also SB add +100 to squad morale