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#21 Nazgûl

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 10:53 PM

Sooo, in short, both Orcs as well as Uruks - as seen in the movies - are completely off from the lore? (I read the books like 20 years ago) :mellow: So the scene where the PJ invented Lurtz for instance, spawns out of "black magic" right out of the soil/mud is completely made up? I wonder if that has something to do with story telling on screen, as in, there wouldnt be any cleaver way to move along in the story if Saurman had to wait 20 years for his breed to reach "useable" fighting age? "20 years later" would probably make the story seem less "flowing" on screen..

Anyway, I'm not sure if we should venture into this as it would render Orc pits useless and we'd have to find a way to use female orcs (and uruks?) which would raise the question of female dwarves, elves and men as well. Every faction would need a "love chack" :evgr:

Edited by Nazgûl, 21 October 2011 - 10:54 PM.

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#22 Sauron's eyes and ears

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:14 AM

Thanks everyone for your input. Do remember though that Mordor is "my" faction and indeed, like my protégé RB said I will put special attention to this faction, once more. We will have several orc tribes and I will also make sure that some of them carry themselves in more menacing postures (Black uruks and the awesome Morannon Orcs) to look more buff and vicious. And yes, the movies will always be my main inspiration. :rolleyes:


Like I said:

The way I see it, it all comes down to whether Nazgûl want's to be more acruate to the books, or the films.


I appoligise for any spelling mistakes, I just can't spell that well all the time!
If you wish to kill me, please post about it in my profile comments and allow 1 mounth for me to read it and prepare my defences(maibie 2 when I am being lazy or am cought up in work, or a game, or something).

I just saw this: Saurons Eyes and Ears
and: Special Extended Edition
spooky.

#23 ElessartheHigh

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 08:25 AM

The movies were very accurate in the gears and weapory of each Race and Folk . They did an impressive job in forging mails , crafting TRUE weapons , shields an such . The SEE mod is very close of the movies , thus I just like to watch those orcs , because there is a true realism , they carry axes , scimitars , spears , scythes , maces .... In a word , like the game itself hould have been at a bigger extent . I think the mod is well enough complete as it is for Mordor , but I imagine you'll put also Cirith Ungol orcs or even more variations between hordes ?
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#24 Sauron-the-Deciever

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:03 PM

I'm new here but THIS IS BETTER

Maybe, orcs are very weak but get's a 20% bonus to everything for each horde

PS Is this dead cause 4.5 is very old, are you guys gonna be releasing something new

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#25 njm1983

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:21 PM

Yeah this place is dead because of numerous set backs and delays, However we have started to build a new version recently which is SEE DC (Special Extended Edition Directors Cut).

#26 Ridder Blauw

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:46 PM

Directors Cut is Nazgûl's final attempt to realize the dream he always had from the moment he played the BFME series.

He's taken much of the control himself again, and let a few people help him along the way.

The future is looking bright, but looks can be decieving.

#27 Gollum

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 04:29 AM

Well either way the Orcs that need to remain powerful will remain powerful. Thank you Naz
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#28 Sauron-the-Deciever

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 04:30 AM

Can you send me a link???

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#29 Sauron's eyes and ears

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 07:51 AM

The movies were very accurate in the gears and weapory of each Race and Folk . They did an impressive job in forging mails , crafting TRUE weapons , shields an such . The SEE mod is very close of the movies , thus I just like to watch those orcs , because there is a true realism , they carry axes , scimitars , spears , scythes , maces .... In a word , like the game itself hould have been at a bigger extent . I think the mod is well enough complete as it is for Mordor , but I imagine you'll put also Cirith Ungol orcs or even more variations between hordes ?


Does this meen no Tom Bombadil? or was he in the extended editions?

Can you send me a link???


A link to what?

Edited by Sauron's eyes and ears, 23 October 2011 - 07:52 AM.

I appoligise for any spelling mistakes, I just can't spell that well all the time!
If you wish to kill me, please post about it in my profile comments and allow 1 mounth for me to read it and prepare my defences(maibie 2 when I am being lazy or am cought up in work, or a game, or something).

I just saw this: Saurons Eyes and Ears
and: Special Extended Edition
spooky.

#30 Námo

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:16 AM

Sooo, in short, both Orcs as well as Uruks - as seen in the movies - are completely off from the lore? (I read the books like 20 years ago) :mellow:

PJ's Orcs and Uruks are absolutely fine; it's just PJ's interpretation of their breeding process that's stupid. Don't misquote me.

So the scene where the PJ invented Lurtz for instance, spawns out of "black magic" right out of the soil/mud is completely made up? I wonder if that has something to do with story telling on screen, as in, there wouldnt be any cleaver way to move along in the story if Saurman had to wait 20 years for his breed to reach "useable" fighting age? "20 years later" would probably make the story seem less "flowing" on screen..

Yes, that scene is awful, and it's definitely not essential for the story to move on. The fact that Saruman had Uruks not afraid of daylight could have been told in many other ways, and told more elegant and realistic. SEE is about realism, right?

In my opinion PJ made an astonishing beautiful movie. Though there are a few flaws, that don't change the overall genius of PJ's work - but even we're both fans of that movie, we would detract from it's beauty if we can't acknowledge those few flaws.


Anyway, I'm not sure if we should venture into this as it would render Orc pits useless ...

It would not render the orc-pit useless, but a few simple alterations would definitely make it much more realistic:

  • Remove the corpses floating around in the mud-soup, and the orc with the stick churning the soup.
  • Replace the texture of the soup with say a texture of wooden planks, and disable the rotation animation.
Voilà. It can even be done in simple coding (hiding of sub-objects in the various levels). Of course a little tinkering with the model is preferable, like raising the wooden floor, and whatever.

A note on realism:

Even without considering the problem of orc-breeding, the orc-pit (as it is now) is a disaster in terms of realism. The structure is a crater filled with a very liquid mud-soup, still it has some openings at the bottom allowing the orcs to run out of the structure. Now, what to me seems complete unrealistic, why the hell does the mud-soup not run out from those openings at the bottom, just as fast as a scared orc can run??


... we'd have to find a way to use female orcs (and uruks?) which would raise the question of female dwarves, elves and men as well.

Female orcs are not important (it was mostly a joke ;) )... female warriors were only characteristic for the Elves, and especially the Easterlings!

off-topic:

Every faction would need a "love chack" :evgr:

Not in this game. I only know one RTS game where this is implemented, and in fact works very well. The Vikings is a game much like The Settlers (I believe it's made by the same people) ... beautiful graphics and nice, cozy gameplay. Really recommended!
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#31 Nazgûl

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 11:13 AM

Ah you mean the BluByte games? Those are great

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#32 Námo

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 02:08 PM

[off-topic]

Great games , yeah.

Sorry, I got the the name wrong (from memory), should be Cultures (The Discovery of Vinland), but it IS made by some of the gifted developers of The Settlers in a new company called Funatics. Gameplay somehow like The Settlers, but with less fighting, and a very complex tech-tree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-iHq5Pxceo


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#33 Rob38

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:02 PM

Sooo, in short, both Orcs as well as Uruks - as seen in the movies - are completely off from the lore? (I read the books like 20 years ago) :mellow: So the scene where the PJ invented Lurtz for instance, spawns out of "black magic" right out of the soil/mud is completely made up? I wonder if that has something to do with story telling on screen, as in, there wouldnt be any cleaver way to move along in the story if Saurman had to wait 20 years for his breed to reach "useable" fighting age? "20 years later" would probably make the story seem less "flowing" on screen..

Do orcs take 20 years to become "full grown" or was their growth process accelerated? And if so, by how much? Always wondered about that.

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#34 Sauron-the-Deciever

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:51 PM

Oh yeah. A link to the SEE DC Forums or downloads or the latest version of SEE
If 4.5 is the latest don't send me the latest link to the download

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#35 Námo

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 10:46 PM

Do orcs take 20 years to become "full grown" or was their growth process accelerated? And if so, by how much? Always wondered about that.

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#36 Nazgûl

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:58 AM

Oh yeah. A link to the SEE DC Forums or downloads or the latest version of SEE
If 4.5 is the latest don't send me the latest link to the download

I think you need to pay more attenton to reading posts then making them... :wink_new:

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#37 isledebananas

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:01 PM

Just a little clarification, but in SEE Mordor has 5 Orc types right? Orcs, Gorgoroth Orcs, Morgul Orcs, Morannon Orcs, and Black Uruks. Black Uruks are obviously the Anti-Hero Elite and the Orcs are just the basic fodder. However,the Gorgoroth Orcs what role do they actually fill? I also think too many kinds of orcs tend to be redundant and step on each others toes. Also it could make a faction OP, and I remember some people complaining about that. The Black Uruks and Orcs are fine since they fill their needed roles well. However, I think orcs need some more variation than simple base stats buffing. Besides I think the strongest(base stats no upgrades) mass produced Orcs should be Isengard's Uruk Scouts as they were Saruman's special blend made to take on the Fellowship.

With Moria/Wild in BFME 2, Mordor was no longer the actual spam faction, but it didn't seem to have any uniqueness. In SEE with the different Orcs it was going in the right direction, but the different breeds were just stronger than the previous ones. They didn't actually fill any important roles. It required little strategy just simply having enough money would allow you to beat your opponents easily with troops that escalate in strength. Of course if you lose the advantage against your enemy you would pretty much lose if you didn't have a lot of cash. I don't think that fits Mordor unless they are dirt poor attacking their main base should always be tough. Only their offensive capabilities seemed to wax and wane, but their defense was always strong in a way paralleling Good Factions which are better at holding ground. I feel that fits well with Mordor portrayed in the books and films. They always have roving bands of weak orcs that you have to take care of in your lands. However, Mordor itself is rarely attacked simply for the fact that fighting them on home soil always incurs drastic casualties. On their home turf they tend to have stronger orcs that are also easily made, but are rarely seen outside of Mordor. Then every now and then they build up a large force of really strong orcs to throw at you.

The Morgul Orcs and Morannon Orcs need some uniqueness beyond just base stats being different. Perhaps making Morgul Orcs base stats be superior and make them the main offensive troops, but having Morannon Orcs weaker but gaining huge bonuses when fighting next to Mordor buildings making them a more defensive unit. After all in the movies Sauron sent out the Morgul Orcs to crush Minas Tirith but only brought out the Morannon Orcs to defend Mordor. Also, it seemed the Morgul Orcs could do somewhat fine under the sun, but Morannon Orcs were of course within the boundaries of the darkened land of Mordor. Perhaps making Morannon Orcs get a more significant bonus from Darkness than regular Mordor troops as well could further differentiate orc types.




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