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Anyone else have these problems?(AI 3.20)


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#1 Ghoulz

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 05:47 AM

The AI will build way more than what's required to reach the peak. Tau just mass up PoE till vehicles get stuck, IG build infantry command till there's no room(and it happens fast), Eldar later mass up webways till they engulf their base with their avatar and vehicles stuck there, Orks build too many banners that quickly surround their mech shop.

There's no way to limit the AI from building so much?

I also noticed something weird recently. Wych squads will only engage in ranged fire, and I just recently seen terminator veterans attack them in melee and they didn't even get tied up and kept using their guns.

#2 thudo

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 03:28 PM

The AI will build way more than what's required to reach the peak. Tau just mass up PoE till vehicles get stuck, IG build infantry command till there's no room(and it happens fast), Eldar later mass up webways till they engulf their base with their avatar and vehicles stuck there, Orks build too many banners that quickly surround their mech shop.

There's no way to limit the AI from building so much?

Ah you do realize this is MAP-DEPENDENT? Most maps this won't happen.. ie. 2p_Blood_River. Some maps with cramped start points there is a chance it might. Yes we are aware of this for years but its difficult to fix.

I also noticed something weird recently. Wych squads will only engage in ranged fire, and I just recently seen terminator veterans attack them in melee and they didn't even get tied up and kept using their guns.

Again.. random events.. doesn't always happen. Wych will engage in CC if needed. Terminators.. assume they were the SHOTTY ones and not the Thunderhammer variants?
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#3 Ghoulz

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 08:12 AM

Well I did say Terminator Veteran. They shouldn't even engage in CC if needed, they're melee units. They're capable of messing up even Mega Nobs but the AI chooses a useless role for them. Is it because their ranged damage is listed as being higher than their melee damage so that tricks them?

And some maps I used weren't even close to being cramped and they still trash their base. There's hardly room in any map for 20+ infantry commands or a dozen PoE. With resources set to low they're less likely to do it, but they become too easy in the process.

Edited by Ghoulz, 21 October 2011 - 08:19 AM.


#4 thudo

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 11:34 AM

Sorry d00d but I ran a 10+ AI vs AI games last night on HARD and did not experience any of what you mentioned especially the building too many of X building. We always play the AI on HARD with regular resources and its very hard for most people to beat even on Standard.
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#5 Ghoulz

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:42 PM

I don't know why the AI is doing it for me then. Im still playing a 2 on 3 match(Always HARD) that's been going on for 6 hours and there's like, 35 Paths of Enlightenment all around our side of the map, lol. And now we're on the defending side cause there's a bunch of battlesuits and vehicles stuck in it's base. This would be workable if I was using IG, Tau, or Orks as they can easily blow up ally buildings without the AI repairing them.

Dynamic Building Production off doesn't solve it. That only tells them to build 1 of each unit producing building, then fill the rest with PoE.

#6 thudo

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:55 PM

Does it happen on 2p_BloodRiver -- the two player map I usually test the most? I can understand on SM Tactical Termies not going into CC. Assault Termies (w/Thunderhammers) obviously go into CC. DE Wyches usually switch between the two.
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#7 Ghoulz

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:31 PM

I never even seen AI Wyches engage in CC yet.

I tried alot of maps cept 2p. Those don't last long enough for the AI to build alot of resources.

#8 thudo

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:41 PM

I never even seen AI Wyches engage in CC yet.

Keep trying.. ;)

I tried alot of maps cept 2p. Those don't last long enough for the AI to build alot of resources.

As the late Steve Jobs said: "You are <doing> it wrong!" :crazed: Obviously the AI is too easy for you then even on INSANE. We can only please half the people half the time. We even have half the community asking to make the EASY AI, well, even easier. :blink: No winz for us ever. :sleep:
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#9 Ghoulz

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 11:50 PM

Isn't the AI from DoS basically the same thing despite the difficulty change other than faster resources? The control panel decides everything or no? Would be perfect if it weren't for the Wyches acting up and some races digging their own graves with walls of useless buildings(Well, waaargh banners have guns on top:P).

Why make em dumber? I like them retreating and using annoying abilities. Makes you hate seer councils, fire prisms, and earthshaker rounds.

Though, SMs have a bad habit of loading their troops into the orbital relay and not deepstriking them until they spot a human player. I can sit back and watch an ally destroy their base, lol.

#10 thudo

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:35 AM

Isn't the AI from DoS basically the same thing despite the difficulty change other than faster resources? The control panel decides everything or no? Would be perfect if it weren't for the Wyches acting up and some races digging their own graves with walls of useless buildings(Well, waaargh banners have guns on top:P).

Except I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, bro. Its almost as if you are NOT running the same AI we run. I think you need to reinstall something as thats NOT remotely the same AI we playtest on a regular basis. Sorry..

Why make em dumber? I like them retreating and using annoying abilities. Makes you hate seer councils, fire prisms, and earthshaker rounds.

Again.. not the AI we play with/against.

Though, SMs have a bad habit of loading their troops into the orbital relay and not deepstriking them until they spot a human player. I can sit back and watch an ally destroy their base, lol.

Depends on the circumstance, man. It all depends... some code we cannot change.

90% of everyone we talk with love the AI but most find it too difficult to engage.
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#11 Ghoulz

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:57 PM

There's another AI other than Dawn of Skirmish 3.20...?

#12 thudo

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:10 PM

Nope.. its the best of the best! There are no others that best ours or have the modularity/configurability as ours. Its the AI used in every single DoW1 faction/balance mod.
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#13 Ghoulz

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:27 AM

Then why you think im using another AI...? Unless it's pretending to be Dawn of Skirmish 3.20....

#14 thudo

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:40 AM

Because you are talking to the ONLY person in all of the DoW1 community has the MOST HOURS logged with 3.20 and you are telling me things I have NOT seen. Case in point: I test many custom mod faction AIs against the standard SM AI also using 3.20 and don't ever see what you say because the AI is absolutely flipp'n brutal and uncompromising. Yes I do see the odd building dupped more than it should BUT its VERY rare. It could be you are playing odd maps but on official 2p maps I really don't see it. Thats why I have a problem with your side of things but does what you say happen: Yeah I suppose but its VERY rare compared to the many hours observed. Also, does it matter in the totality of the game the AI plays? Absolutely not: why? Because by that point the AI has already steamrolled one's frick'n ass back to Hades and then came back for desert wine and party favours. Simply put: even I am most of my cohorts cannot defeat the AI on HARD.. it simply out-builds, out-spams, and out-thinks us and the community will back me up on this.
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#15 Ghoulz

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:33 PM

Ever test them 2 on 2 with alot of time passed? I usually do 2 vs 2 or more. Sometimes 2 vs 3, cause Tau for an ally steamrolls any race. I still dare not choose Tau for an enemy. 1 vs 1 is too personal for my tastes.

Yeah, they are smart as hell, cept SoB(stupid immolators mostly), they know who to target and where to strike most of the time. I still end up failing with a race like Chaos cause their anti-armor lacks long range capabilities. If Orks don't mess up their base they'll give me the hardest time.

#16 thudo

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:48 PM

Ever test them 2 on 2 with alot of time passed? I usually do 2 vs 2 or more. Sometimes 2 vs 3, cause Tau for an ally steamrolls any race. I still dare not choose Tau for an enemy. 1 vs 1 is too personal for my tastes.

Yeah Tau in SS 1.20 is grossly IMBA. Having AI control then is asking for Hell on Earth. :mad2:

Yeah, they are smart as hell, cept SoB(stupid immolators mostly), they know who to target and where to strike most of the time. I still end up failing with a race like Chaos cause their anti-armor lacks long range capabilities. If Orks don't mess up their base they'll give me the hardest time.

Yeah Orks feel weak to me in 1.20 but the AI uses them as best they can. Like I said, using official maps ie. 4p_Mountain_Trail is real fun.

Btw, tried using -dev then have all AI vs AI battles? Best sh*t going for DoW1.. makes troubleshooting faction mod AIs sooo much easier. ;)
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#17 Ghoulz

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:12 AM

Rename target "C:\Program Files\THQ\Dawn of War - Soulstorm\Soulstorm.exe" -modname dowai to "C:\Program Files\THQ\Dawn of War - Soulstorm\Soulstorm.exe" -modname dowai-dev?

Doesn't seem to work and the autoexec.lua stays as a text file.

#18 thudo

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:26 AM

Actually..

<installed Soulstorm path>\Soulstorm.exe -dev -nomovies

If you are adding a mod..

<installed Soulstorm path>\Soulstorm.exe -modname <mod name from its .module> -dev -nomovies

I usually launch it using a .cmd file as follows using the Dark Angels mod as example:

start soulstorm.exe -dev -nomovies -modname Dark_Angels

Btw, the autoexec.lua IS actually a text file, bro.

Mine looks like:

run = Cpu_ControlLocalPlayer()
run = setsimrate(50)
run = fog_toggle()
--run = FOW_RevealAll()

bind("F1","setsimrate(5)")
bind("F2","setsimrate(12)")
bind("F3","setsimrate(35)")
bind("F4","setsimrate(50)")
bind("F5","test()")
bind("F6","test1()")

function test()
local count=World_GetPlayerCount()
g_Player1=World_GetPlayerAt(0);
if count>1 then
g_Player2=World_GetPlayerAt(1);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player2,0);
end
if count>2 then
g_Player3=World_GetPlayerAt(2);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player3,0);
end
if count>3 then
g_Player4=World_GetPlayerAt(3);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player4,0);
end
if count>4 then
g_Player5=World_GetPlayerAt(4);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player5,0);
end
if count>5 then
g_Player6=World_GetPlayerAt(5);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player6,0);
end
if count>6 then
g_Player7=World_GetPlayerAt(6);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player7,0);
end
if count>7 then
g_Player8=World_GetPlayerAt(7);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player8,0);
end

Player_SetResource(g_Player1,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player1,RT_Power,9999);
end

function test1()
local count=World_GetPlayerCount()
g_Player1=World_GetPlayerAt(0);
if count>1 then
g_Player2=World_GetPlayerAt(1);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player2,0);
end
if count>2 then
g_Player3=World_GetPlayerAt(2);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player3,0);
end
if count>3 then
g_Player4=World_GetPlayerAt(3);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player4,0);
end
if count>4 then
g_Player5=World_GetPlayerAt(4);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player5,0);
end
if count>5 then
g_Player6=World_GetPlayerAt(5);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player6,0);
end
if count>6 then
g_Player7=World_GetPlayerAt(6);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player7,0);
end
if count>7 then
g_Player8=World_GetPlayerAt(7);
World_EnablePlayerToPlayerFOW(g_Player1,g_Player8,0);
end

Player_SetResource(g_Player2,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player2,RT_Power,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player3,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player3,RT_Power,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player4,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player4,RT_Power,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player5,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player5,RT_Power,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player6,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player6,RT_Power,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player7,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player7,RT_Power,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player8,RT_Requisition,9999);
Player_SetResource(g_Player8,RT_Power,9999);
end

bind("shift+tab", "toggle_screenmode()")
screenmode = 0
function toggle_screenmode()
if screenmode == 0 then
taskbar_hide()
message_hide()
ingame_select_ui_toggle()
ingame_stats_toggle()
screenmode = 1
else
taskbar_show()
message_show()
ingame_select_ui_toggle()
ingame_stats_toggle()
screenmode = 0
end
end

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#19 Ghoulz

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:21 PM

Apparently the no movies works, but player 1 isn't CPU controlled still.

#20 thudo

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:24 PM

Sorry man but it has to be due to it forcing it in the first line:

run = Cpu_ControlLocalPlayer()

That means autoexec.lua isn't getting called when -dev is run via your shortcut. Something up on your end.
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