5 replies to this topic

[Beowulf]

http://www.heraldsun...v-1226185138636
I've been following the Greece economic collapse on and off for a while now. Appears that France and Germany are sick of Greece mismanaging themselves and continually tanking their economy. If Greece doesn't get their shit together, they will no longer be on the Euro, and possibly, out of the EU entirely. That will seriously fuck up Greece's shit more than it already is, but at the same time, I can see the reasoning behind the decision from Germany and France. Why continue pouring aid into a country that's not using it properly?

What do you guys think?

tl;dr discuss the link.

[Námo]

The important news in that article is the first line:

EUROPEAN leaders have for the first time raised the prospect of the eurozone splintering ...

The taboo is broken.

I guess that they slowly are realizing, that they can't kick the can down the road much longer.

They really don't care for the Greeks, and in fact would like to see Greece as a serfdom of the EU ... after all, that's the whole purpose of the EU as we know it now.

Their real concern is Italy. They can't backstop Italy, then France will fall too (with their banks in big trouble already), with Germany left as the only country to save all the rest ... and then the German debt will raise to something like 315 pct. of their GDP.

The EFSF (European Financial Suicide Fund) is an epic failure, so the ECB probably will need to start up the printing press soon. The yields on 10yr Italian bonds are slowly edging closer (now 6.4%) to the magical 7%, the point of no return where the debt enters a poisonous negative spiral.

From an anti-EU point of view, there'll hopefully be lots of stumbling blocks in the coming month:

• Friday, Nov. 4: Greek government confidence vote.
• Monday, Nov. 7: Meeting of Eurogroup finance ministers. EFSF issuance expected within two weeks of this date. IMF/EU officials start second quarterly evaluation of Portugal’s bailout program implementation. Should also last two weeks.
• Tuesday, Nov. 8: EU finance ministers meeting. Greek T-bill auction.
• Thursday, Nov. 10: Italian T-bill auction.
• Friday, Nov. 11: EUR2.0 billion of Greek T-bills mature.
• Monday, Nov. 14: Italian bond auction.
• Tuesday, Nov. 15: Greek T-bill auction.
• Wednesday, Nov. 16: Portuguese T-bill auction.
• Thursday, Nov. 17: Spanish and French bond auctions.
• Friday, Nov. 18: EUR1.3 billion of Greek T-bills mature.
• Sunday, Nov. 20: Spain holds general election.
• Thursday, Nov. 24: General strike in Portugal.
• Friday, Nov. 25: Italian T-bill/zero coupon bond auction.
• Tuesday, Nov. 29: Italian bond auction. Final Portuguese budget vote.

[duke_Qa]

It's not a membership if you can't be kicked out of the club. The EU is there for those that are progressing in a positive direction.

Mediterranean nations with the "me first" philosophy and massive amounts of corruption needs to know that there are consequences to bullshit like that. I wouldn't call it "splintering the EU" as much as "keeping the EU healthy".

If nations that wants to get into EU can't because they do not meet the demands, why should already included nations that fail their demands be allowed to stay?

Edited by duke_Qa, 05 November 2011 - 04:43 PM.

[Pasidon]

Yea, its not like Greece will just vanish and its boarders absorbed into Italy, or something. That's like Joe Biden saying Colorado will be ejected from the United States and treated like a separate country just because they don't make the dough. We'd just cut their highway funds. If anything will happen to Greece, it would be a coupe de' snatch of their funds and fixed. But seriously... how can you not be making tons of money from a giant tourist attraction?

Edited by {IP}Pasidon, 05 November 2011 - 05:37 PM.

[Námo]

If nations that wants to get into EU can't because they do not meet the demands, why should already included nations that fail their demands be allowed to stay?

Good point.

The problem for the EUROcrats is, that if one nation is allowed to leave, even if it's just stepping out of the Euro-zone and going back to their former currency, the EU would collapse in a few years.

Like in the case of another totalitarian union, who shares many similarities with the EU:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

Vladimir Bukovsky spent many years in Russian labour camps and psychiatric prisons for defending human rights; he lectures and writes on the old Soviet system and the EU.

[duke_Qa]

The EU was originally made for economic cooperation to reduce the friction between nations and the dangers of war in Europe after WW2. If that is what you want to get rid of then prepare for the consequences of removing it.

Looking critically at the undemocratic direction of certain EU elements does not equal getting rid of the entire system. This is like the 99% movement: just because the government is in bed with the money does not mean you should kill the government.