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The Essential Guide to Warfare


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#81 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:01 PM

I'm excited about Scourge. Even if it's a bit of a rehash, a 19-ABY look at Hutt Space is golden.

#82 johnchm.10

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:03 PM

supposedly, if the rumors are to be believed, the original Extra-Galactic Invasion storyline was going to be a bit more interesting. if you believe the wookie-page, the basic points still would have been there, but hopefully the invaders wouldnt have had the whole "our ships are fully organic, herpderp." having the race that became the vong instead being outcast Sith might not have been much better, and that some important character would have had to die, but they could have killed off another character. but no. we get a bunch of aliens who's ships are living and who use black holes for everything. and a whiny Solo brat who's like Anikin 2 (obviously skywalker) and who goes all "non-violent hippy" AT THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME!!!, and who becomes a pale imitation of his grandfather later on in life. if they could have the force ghosts re-appear, im pretty sure obi-wan's and anikin's ghosts would have been like "dude, enough with the hippy crap ok? THESE GUYS KILLED BILLIONS OF PEOPLE BY BRINGING DOWN A MOON ON THEIR PLANET, ONE OF WHOM WAS YOUR FATHER'S BEST FRIEND. AND THAT WAS JUST THEIR WAY OF SAYING 'HELLO' WE SINCERELY DOUBT THAT A NON-VIOLENT SOLUTION IS THE WAY TO GO HERE"

#83 smashedsaturn

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:17 AM

oh god.... why?

everything has now been reduced to sibling rivalry and apparently abeloth is the cause of it all....
lets break off and create our own cannon where Han shoots first, the prequels never happened, and all this recent nonsense was someones bad dream. The Vong are ok.... I think that they were a bit too overpowered and the story could have been done much better, I mean the whole "I will not save the galaxy by firing centerpoint at these invaders" was really the end for me. I'd have loved to see palpatine's planned out defense to them though. Imagine fleets of battle-cruisers and dreadnoughts slugging it out against their sissy coral ships and all the experimental 'evil' weapons, like the World devastators and Death Stars.... they would probably think the death star was one of the droids from their old galaxy and run away. imagine a world devastator ripping apart a Vong ship and using it to make Droid fighters and Dark troopers and their reaction to that. Much more entertaining than a lot of the NJO stuff.

#84 johnchm.10

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:48 AM



#85 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:22 AM

As long as we're ranting, can I say that I hate how everyone's a noble. Even Han is descended from kings. Almost makes you think they'd pull out the guillotine after defeating the Empire.

This Abeloth looks like the boss in a D&D campaign where the heroes are all level 30 and have already killed the entire plane. They should've retired a few levels ago or had the DM wrap it up, but instead the campaign is quickly descending into ridiculousness...

#86 johnchm.10

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:39 AM

never got into D&D, although i have an idea of what youre saying.
im going to start a new thread for how star wars has jumped the shark, as the saying goes

#87 Kitkun

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:30 PM

Even Han is descended from kings.

what

Thanks for justifying my decision!

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#88 SpardaSon21

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:52 PM

As long as we're ranting, can I say that I hate how everyone's a noble. Even Han is descended from kings. Almost makes you think they'd pull out the guillotine after defeating the Empire.

This Abeloth looks like the boss in a D&D campaign where the heroes are all level 30 and have already killed the entire plane. They should've retired a few levels ago or had the DM wrap it up, but instead the campaign is quickly descending into ridiculousness...

If Abeloth looks that way, its because all the main characters in Star Wars are level 30 and really have managed to kill everything in the entire plane.

#89 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:26 PM

Oh, that's old news, Kitkun. Courtship of Princess Leia? Looks like it's presently ambiguous in canon though.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 23 April 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#90 P.O._210877

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:59 PM

You know, after reading about the MC80, I figured that what PR calls Reef-Home-class could well be retconed into the elusive MC80a (or A for the truly hardcore fans of the EU). They talk about the Independence and sister ships, they talk about the Liberty-class, but I don't recall any mention of the "wingless". So it's not such a big step to imply that the Reef-Home was an early (maybe the prototype) MC80a. It sure would fit the role PR gave it, although it could need some complements of fighters and transports to keep in line with the rest of the class.

Edited by P.O._210877, 23 April 2012 - 08:59 PM.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#91 Kitkun

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:15 AM

Oh, that's old news, Kitkun. Courtship of Princess Leia? Looks like it's presently ambiguous in canon though.

That's... on my bookshelf. Whoops.
I'll shut up and quit derailing now.

Frosty Freaky Foreign Forum Fox

<DevXen> Today I was at the store and saw a Darth Vader action figure that said "Choking Hazard." It was great.


#92 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:56 AM

As far as canon is concerned, all MC80s are equal. I wouldn't trust their judgment.

#93 P.O._210877

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:58 AM

PRians, if you didn't already, here's an excerpt of something you MUST read :


For those who like this sort of thing, here are official dimensions and Anaxes class designations for Ansel’s original creations and interpretations of briefly glimpsed background ships. All this has been approved by Lucasfilm, so it’s canon:

Naval Station Validusia: 31km by 21km by 17 km (tower height)

Procursator-class Star Destroyer – 1.2 km long

Allegiance-class battlecruiser – 2.2 km long, often known as a Heavy Star Destroyer. This is the mysterious oversized ISD from Dark Empire II. It’s also a perfect example of the “Star Cruiser” subclass of battlecruiser mentioned in Warfare.

Secutor-class Star Destroyer – 2.2 km long. Its size would seem to put it in the battlecruiser class, but it’s classified as a Star Destroyer because it’s lightly armed for its size, plays a carrier role, and was designed early in Imperial history, or perhaps late in Republic history. (The Venator-style twin bridges are a giveaway.)

Altor-class fleet supply ship – 4.6 km long.

Praetor-class/Praetor Mk. II-class battlecruisers – 4.8 km long.

Bellator-class dreadnought – 7.2 km long. The Bellator is a rethinking of the humpbacked Mandator- and Mandator II-class dreadnoughts, which are slightly longer at 8 km. Known in the Imperial military as a “fast dreadnought,” the Bellator sacrifices firepower for speed, where the Mandator III is a 12-km monster valued as a hulking weapons platform. So you have divergent, differently sized redesigns of the same basic hull. (That’s in-universe; out of universe, Warfare’s text and art had separate references to the famous humpbacked ship seen above Byss in Dark Empire. From that accidental collision, a design retcon.)

Assertor-class dreadnought – 15 km long.


The rest of the post is also a must IMO.

http://jasonfry.tumb...e-endnotes-pt-7


Addendum :

Quick note: In Pt. 7 I missed another Ansel Hsiao design that’s been canonized by Lucasfilm. It’s the Vigil-class corvette, and its length is 255 meters.


Edited by P.O._210877, 23 May 2012 - 07:01 AM.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#94 Zeta1127

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:04 AM

I was quite pleased when I saw those endnotes, save the continued lack of use of the official Kuati designations, a "Star" prefix for Kuati battlecruisers and dreadnoughts, and the re-designation of the Bellator-class to a dreadnought. I do love that there are actual dimensions for a space station, which are normally few and far between.

I won't be satisfied until an official work uses the official Kuati designations for all Kuati starship classes, specifically the Allegiance-class Star Battlecruiser, the Praetor II-class Star Battlecruiser, and the Bellator-class Star Battlecruiser, the Mandator-class Star Dreadnought line, the Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought, the Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought, and the Vengeance-class Star Dreadnought. Fortunately, the Assertor-class Star Dreadnought is already officially a Star Dreadnought.

Edited by Zeta1127, 17 May 2012 - 08:08 AM.

"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
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#95 P.O._210877

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

Zeta I've got to ask you something, I've been around the net and read a lot of your posts. Suffice it to say that I am 100% convinced that this subject is close to your heart. I understand and respect that. Still, I am puzzled as to why you love the Kuati designations so much? And why do you believe that it should supersede other systems?

This is an honest question, no strings attached. :mellowthumbsup:

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#96 Zeta1127

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:55 AM

I don't think the Kuati designations should supersede something like the Anaxes War College System, if anything the Anaxes system is superseding what Kuati designations for its battlecruisers and dreadnoughts, for the sake of a consistent classification system. I welcome the Anaxes War College System, because before it, they called every battlecruiser or dreadnought, which are primarily Kuati starship classes with few very exceptions, a Super Star Destroyer unless it was a well depicted class like a Mandator or Executor-class Star Dreadnought, or a Procurator or Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser.

The issue I have is, with something like say an Allegiance-class Star Battlecuiser (beforehand it was only ever called the Imperial-class Super Star Destroyer due to its similar appearance to the Imperial-class Star Destroyer), or an Eclipse or Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought, the writers colloquially refer to such ships as Super Star Destroyers, which would be fine if they called them by a proper name at least once. Since virtually all these starships are Kuati designs, and the Kuati system is already in use for the well depicted classes, like the Executor-class, I don't see why they aren't Star Battlecruisers and Star Dreadnoughts. I am so insistent on this because I like things organized in a logical manner, but the authors have a tendency to cut corners and just say its a SSD, leaving Wookieepedia to call it as such because that is how canon works.

Edited by Zeta1127, 18 May 2012 - 03:35 AM.

"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie

#97 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:51 PM

I'm thrilled that the background ships from Dark Empire have been canonized - honestly, I wasn't sure this would ever happen. That said, I'll be hugely disappointed if they're all given to KDY (still halfway through TEGtW - been busy with PR development).

I analyzed the DE ships for OSH a while back and drew my own conclusions. I had the "Bellator" at 5.5 km and I desperately wanted it to be a bigger cousin to the Republic-class, given that RSD doesn't pick sides and hasn't built anything for the Empire since the Clone Wars. I hoped the "Secutor" was the aforementioned Rothana destroyer at 1.9 km (and an Acclamator tower... and probably a quick hyperdrive). I measured the "Procursator" at 1.2 km and did assign that to Kuat, likely as a KDY version of the Victory (a straight destroyer). "Assertor" was estimated very roughly at 8 km with no conclusions drawn, since it's so tiny in the comic. I don't believe the other classes originate from DE.

A few others - if they canonized these, I missed them. 3.2-km Kuat battlecruiser. 1.6-km Rendili destroyer. Oh, and check out the three ships in the top left (measured 700 m, Sienar towers, no GWPs).

Anyone want to speculate on what system the Validusia is in? I think Wistril would be perfect for it.

#98 P.O._210877

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:29 AM

Zeta 1127 Clone Marshal Commander of the 89th Legion, I thank you for your candor and open mind. I do understand your impassioned posts in a clearer way now.

I analyzed the DE ships for OSH a while back and drew my own conclusions. I had the "Bellator" at 5.5 km


Fractalsponge did mentioned this:

The ship was built to 6.4km, but in the text it's 4.8km. Can't win em all Posted Image



. 3.2-km Kuat battlecruiser


Could well be one of those Star Battlecruiser mentioned in the end notes, built on the same wedged hull as the others but largely looked over in the time of the Empire. But in the time of the Dark Empire they were more plentiful...? Could also be what little of the class answered the "call to the Deep Core"

But given all the new elements introduced in this book, I believe any variant of the ISD hull can be imagined, heavier and lighter both.


1.6-km Rendili destroyer


Could be another odd variant, maybe a Vic III, or perhaps Rendili got to fill the void in the Star Destroyer (Anaxes War College System) leftover after Kuat Drive Yards was comissioned with the battlecruisers and dreadnoughts...?


check out the three ships in the top left


Without more canon on these, I believe anything goes.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#99 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:47 AM

The implication on your last quote there was that they're Vindicators. Of course, it's impossible to measure comic-background ships with much precision.

#100 P.O._210877

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 04:11 AM

I would very much like them to be Vindicators, I loved that ship since I laid eyes on it.

Edited by P.O._210877, 18 May 2012 - 04:13 AM.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus




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