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The right result, surely?


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#1 Ash

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:09 PM

Faith in humanity restored by 2 points

In this country the man would probably be in the dock. Unfortunately, it's fair to say any decent parent would do the same thing.

On the positive side, one less sick fuck in the world, and one more father who can continue doing his paternal duty to protect his child.

Pin a medal on the man, somebody.

#2 duke_Qa

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:03 AM

I suspect most judiciary systems in the west would let this guy walk. Self defense and defense of others where the evidence is so clear, would leave no options beyond a few hours in custody for report-writing and double-checking.

Also, what kind of shitstorm do you think the local authorities would go through if they actually charged a guy(or even just holding him for more than a day) for murdering someone like that? the 4th pillar of democracy would make sure the sentence has been passed before it was even a question.

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#3 Ash

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:48 PM

Heh, you betray your never having had dealings with the Crown Prosecution Service, or as we wee bobbies prefer to call them, the Criminal Protection Service...they really do make some of the stupidest decisions you could imagine regarding charging (because, didn't you know? Cops aren't smart enough to decide whether they've got enough evidence to run a case through court...)

#4 duke_Qa

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:33 PM

I guess innocent until proven guilty is the chakra of most prosecutions, but they be damned if they let a big case go by them without being given a proper walkthrough. They seem to have done so as well in this case, but it never came to a court and it didn't lock someone up while it was being reviewed.

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#5 Beowulf

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:58 AM

Heh, you betray your never having had dealings with the Crown Prosecution Service, or as we wee bobbies prefer to call them, the Criminal Protection Service...they really do make some of the stupidest decisions you could imagine regarding charging (because, didn't you know? Cops aren't smart enough to decide whether they've got enough evidence to run a case through court...)

Someone in Britain making stupid decisions? Never.

Then again, what am I talking about? I live in the US. I think we're still the reigning champions of stupid.

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#6 Hostile

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:32 AM

meh, the US is only as messed up as the leader. Get rid of him and can can bank on a serious change.

#7 Caspa

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:38 AM

Are you really that stupid, or is it just an act? The problem isn't the one moron at the top. It's systemic. It's like a cancer in the veins of America through each party and just about every single senator, constituent and whatever else. A loathsome mess of corruption, greedy and stupidity that's destroying even the small amount of Americans overburdened with an abundance of real education.

And Ash is right. For the most part, British bobbys are really fucking stupid. They can't even get a conviction on a no brainer rape case, unless they've got a dozen witnesses and 17 angles of security footage.

Edited by Caspa, 30 July 2012 - 05:41 AM.

Hostile is a cunt.

Thought I'd have that here to save time.

#8 Hostile

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

Well the fucking leader tweaks the system based on their own decisions so if you're gonna start somewhere you have to start at the top. But I'm sure you already knew that seeing you're the all seeing eye and shit.

#9 duke_Qa

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:08 PM

The president doesn't do all the lawmaking. And a system that hasn't increased the median wage with more than 5% the last 30 years is doing something wrong.

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#10 Hostile

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:35 PM

Well let's talk about that for a second...

Our leader sues the state of Arizona for trying to enforce immigration laws that are already a federal law. Since when does the federal government fight to not enforce it's own laws.

Eric Holder that's who, and this person was appointed by Obama. So now let's talk sir.

#11 duke_Qa

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:45 PM

I don't think immigration the biggest problem the US has. Immigration, ethnic/religious/sexual minorities; hate-wanking and "bread & circus", all of it.

[*] "The DOJ is telling the court in Arizona that immigration policy isn't a nightstick to be waved in the face of every Latino walking down the street," said Foster Maer, an attorney with LatinoJustice, a Hispanic civil rights group.

So, once you do a bit of research, the topic is not a paradoxical attack on Arizona for doing what the federal government wanted them to do, but for modifying the law into something that gives the police the right to demand ID-papers of any person who might be an illegal immigrant.

So, the president sends his dogs on someone who is bending the law beyond what it was supposed to do. Sounds like a typical "battle of the administrations". Back and forth until someone wins or someone yields because of a popular opinion pounding.

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#12 Pasidon

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:00 AM

It wasn't really a law bender type deal. It's more of a 'you're doing something that violates my administration' deal. Petty... but probably what any president would have done. But just for the sake of Obama bashing, he really is dumb when it comes to immigration. Obama is a strong law student, and his expertise is in public courts and criminal sentencing... and when he does economic and infrastructural work, it makes me gag. He's probably so lenient on immigration since he himself is an immigrant Woops... that starts arguments. What I should say is that it isn't a problem from where Obama came from; it's where he's at now that I take issue with.

I don't think immigration the biggest problem the US has. Immigration, ethnic/religious/sexual minorities; hate-wanking and "bread & circus", all of it.

No, but it always seems to contribute to our biggest problems.

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#13 Elvenlord

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:59 AM

http://abcnews.go.co...hispanic-scorn/

Oh yeah, so lenient.

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#14 Ash

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:40 AM

And Ash is right. For the most part, British bobbys are really fucking stupid. They can't even get a conviction on a no brainer rape case, unless they've got a dozen witnesses and 17 angles of security footage.

Hey, whoa, now slow down there. It isn't the bobby on the street who's stupid, because he doesn't prosecute the case. The requirement placed on the bobby in any criminal investigation is to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry. Which means, yes, we'll probably have to duplicate witnesses and speak to all of them when maybe two or three would realistically do, to obtain CCTV, forensics etc. These are things we have to do. From there it's the CPS who actually do the prosecution. And they are notoriously shambolic at what they decide to go to court with. By which you should read: they won't take it unless it's a nailed-on job that guarantees them a conviction because they know if they bin the job then it isn't them that looks shit, it's the police, which is exactly why you came to the assessment of the cops you did. Even if the job is relatively clear-cut they sometimes won't run it, likewise if there's any actual legwork to be done by the prosecutor.

#15 duke_Qa

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:24 AM

No, but it always seems to contribute to our biggest problems.


That's the hate-wanking digging into your brain. Would you have cared about the waves of immigrants half as much if there was work with good pay for every American and legal immigrants? The hate is pretty rational because you have to compete about the few jobs that are around, forcing the wages down and making life harder than it could have been or have been in the past.

This isn't the immigrants fault, its the fault of the higher ups for outsourcing and offshoring all the jobs that Americans could have done on their own, but are not allowed to because your bosses got greedy and wanted bigger profits at the cost of your society. How long can a nation survive, when its money is siphoned off to the elites, who then invest that money abroad in tax-havens and sweat-shops? About 30-50 years I'd reckon, and you are 30 years into it now.

Edit: more on topic: Ash is more on topic :)

It's a shame if the prosecutors don't go for the pretty clear-cut cases, but I guess they prefer to let an idiot go once and see what happens next instead of making a mistake the first time they get him in their files. I'm sure the police pay attention to people who have almost had charges pressed against them?

Edited by duke_Qa, 31 July 2012 - 09:26 AM.

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#16 Pasidon

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:50 AM

Hey now, hate is a strong word. Accurate, but strong. I have refrained from using any terms such as 'beaner' or 'lazy low wage worker', so keep a little confidence I'm being as unbiased as possible. I don't care for jobs as much as the massive unnecessary population spikes that are draining resources, and not to mention stereotypical crime-ridden behaviors from immigrants. I don't like to say most Mexicans are involved in some bad crimes, but I really haven't seen otherwise. The 5 Mexicans that live down the road from me break into houses like it's their job.

And on the topic of prosecutors, they really can't get a case based on what seems right. I've heard that in quite a few countries recently, prosecutions require a bit more fluffing to proceed. Like in Arizona for example... prisons are so over-booked, some crimes just aren't being handled the same. Some crimes aren't dealt with at all. So if I had a guess, I would say that the criminal prosecution world isn't based on what seems to follow the law, but the condition of local crime in general. Such as, the punishment for stealing bread is a day in prison, but since 78% of your population is involved in throwing small babies into a pit, which is punishable by 60 years in prison, the bread punishment will be prosecuted very differently. Then again, this is what I think I've observed,,, I'm not too keen on how the law works in most places.

http://abcnews.go.co...hispanic-scorn/

Oh yeah, so lenient.

That's small cooking compared to what is needing to be done. It sounds bad cuz lots of Mexicans are illegal immigrants, maybe more than half of the Mex pop even (and more than half of them don't like Obama's immigration plan? NO WAY!!). It's pretty horrendous how many there are. And if you're an illegal immigrant, you get deported. So now, it's record setting because there have been more illegal Mexicans than ever before. I know some just down the road from me, and this isn't even a Southern state. They're everywhere. There are more unlisted Mexicans out there that the government knows about, but we're not using our full resources to acquire them. The alien act has been expanded upon recently cuz Mexicans are arguing their rights are being violated from some of our processes. Well duh... if you want to catch any, their rights are going to have to be violated. But if they own a house, we pretty much can't bust them... and lots of them own shanty houses and such. So yes, what we have now is strict by any illegal immigrant's standards but not at all by most Americans.

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#17 Ash

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:07 PM

And on the topic of prosecutors, they really can't get a case based on what seems right. I've heard that in quite a few countries recently, prosecutions require a bit more fluffing to proceed. Like in Arizona for example... prisons are so over-booked, some crimes just aren't being handled the same. Some crimes aren't dealt with at all. So if I had a guess, I would say that the criminal prosecution world isn't based on what seems to follow the law, but the condition of local crime in general. Such as, the punishment for stealing bread is a day in prison, but since 78% of your population is involved in throwing small babies into a pit, which is punishable by 60 years in prison, the bread punishment will be prosecuted very differently. Then again, this is what I think I've observed,,, I'm not too keen on how the law works in most places.


More or less the same in the UK. Our prisons are full. US prisons aren't. That's why the USA has a greater per-1000 ratio of prison inmates than anywhere else in the world - rather than come up with alternatives to incarceration (which, by and large, don't work because most criminals are recidivists), the USA just builds more prisons and fills them up. I'm not saying the American justice system is any more right than the British one but it's at least the case that regular/high-level scum get punished for their crimes, and are at least in general kept inside not only long enough for victims to feel justice is being done and the offender to feel some consequences to his actions, but also to show an obvious and marked effect on crime in the area where the criminal was active, and for some rehabilitative intervention to be enacted long enough to make an impact.

By that I mean, the drug-taking burglar will get some rehab to get him off the gear, but it's no good if he only spends six weeks on the programme before he gets out. Stick him inside for a year or so and he'll have the time for the treatment programme to run its course.




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