49 replies to this topic

[Bofur]

Will the textures be changed to reflect that the characters are older? =D

I'm not speaking for the others, but Bofur doesn't age!

[Nazgûl]

Well I never thought we would get all those models. Now I have soo much audio to get... Boo lol

 

Hehe yeah, and I have TONS of codig to do for them all 

 

Will the textures be changed to reflect that the characters are older? =D

 

Not sure yet, as that would be extensive elaboration on something hypothetical. But, in theory I guess I should do that.

 

No offence to anyone but I still think they look ugly.

Congrats on getting them into the mod tho.

 

Wow, that's a strong word  Why "ugly"? I agree that not all of them are 100% flawless IMO, but most are amongst the best I've seen (again IMO), even if I haven't seen that many models of these caracters. Dwalin seems to be the most popular one.. 

Personally I'd grade them like this:
Thorin 8/10 (Face a bit flat)
Fili 9/10 (Resemblace to actor slightly off)

Kili 7/10 (Arms too long and face too small and resemblance to actor is not so high)

Oin 10/10

Gloin 10/10

Dwalin 9,5/10 (Hands a bit too small)

Balin 9/10 (Face a bit low res)
Bifur 10/10

Bofur 10/10

Bombur 9/10 (Texture a bit low res)

Dori 10/10

Nori 10/10

Ori 10/10

 

...so overall I think they look great, with some minor exceptions, just like my own models. I'm not 100% happy with Azog's proportions and the topology of Great Goblin. But that's the nature of art and being creative. Sometimes you (the artist) nail it all the way and sometimes you don't. But refering to these models as "ugly" is quite harsh I think   I'm curious to see better verions though, in case you can give an example?

Edited by Nazgûl, 23 August 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Mathijs]

I have to agree with Vala.

 

Most of these aren't very well done. The cloth textures are loaded with artifacts, texture mapping is plain bad (lots of stretching), too much contrast on certain parts... The problem is that they seem to have gone entirely off of promotional pictures instead of recreating the costumes by finding or creating suitable textile textures and arranging/layering them to resemble the design.

 

Working with photographic references is absolutely fine (I do it all the time), but it's important to properly edit and colorize them so they look uniform instead of cobbled together. It's also important to recognize when a certain photo isn't going to cut it, so you can edit other references to recreate what is supposed to be there. These textures are simply stretched out to cover up anything that couldn't be seen in the photos they used.

 

I can see what they were going for with certain faces (Thorin, for example) but that's just not how an asymmetrical face is properly done. Thorin's face will only look decent from 1 angle due to the fact they didn't bother editing the shading from the original photo. The weird thing about these models though is that they are a second incarnation; they had a group of older versions at first, then they created these to be more accurate when there were many more image references available. I wonder why they didn't use these references.

 

I'm sure they'll look alright in-game, though. They just don't hold up to close scrutiny.

 

Then there's also the matter of working with Edain... They have been known to steal assets from other mods (such as TDH and a R:TW LotR mod), and they've largely ignored claims made by representatives from these teams. I was abused by both their fans and staff when I pointed out a Dwarven structure of theirs was ripped from TDH. I think they've changed that one now, though, after assuring me they only did so to 'make me happy' because I wasn't backing off.

 

So yeah, be careful. They're arrogant dillholes. 

[MattTheLegoman]

Agreed with Mathijs points about the dwarves - which is kinda why I wanted to see them reskinned so at least they'd look better quality. =p

 

But I am overjoyed that we have something to work with - and a model binder. =D

[Nazgûl]

I see... well thanks for the heads up M.

Regardless, and assuming these are all a-ok "legally", I'm happy not having to create them myself as that would take a huge amount of time.

[Turin Turumbar]

 

Then there's also the matter of working with Edain... They have been known to steal assets from other mods (such as TDH and a R:TW LotR mod), and they've largely ignored claims made by representatives from these teams. I was abused by both their fans and staff when I pointed out a Dwarven structure of theirs was ripped from TDH. I think they've changed that one now, though, after assuring me they only did so to 'make me happy' because I wasn't backing off.

 

So yeah, be careful. They're arrogant dillholes. 

 

Wow. Harsh words. I think it is okay that you do not like our models. It is your taste, we think they are fine. But that does not justify such harsh words against our team, especially a "division leader" should know better.

I honestly do not know about the model from TDH you mentioned, but I know our structure modeller and he is not the guy who steals other peoples work. It could be that our model was inspired by yours, but wouldnt that be a reason to be proud? And there is not one model from any R:TW mod in our game. TW game models would not fit into the scheme of BFME models, they are more realistic, while BFME one always have this comic touch. You could clearly spot TW models in the game, but there are none.

I know that you wont give a fuck about this post, but I, a arrogant dillhole, just wanted to say my opinion in this topic.

 

Keep it up Naz! Cooperation between mods can work fine, even though some people here do not want to see it work. 

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, this issue has ALWAYS been an issue in the modding community. When I began, back in 2006, I was under the naive notion that modders was a bunch of warm hearted nerds, trying their best to cooperate towards common goals and a shared love of something specific - in this case - the wonderful world of JRR Tolkien and the way PJ visualized this (which can be debated off course). I was not really prepared for the competitive attitutes and all the toes one obviously can step on, however unintentional it may be. I never ever seeked out conflicts or clashes, but they often seem to find me, with seriousy demoralizing results that made me leave this community from time to time. Sometimes up to a year or more as arguing sorta takes the fun out of modding. This happened not seldom when I speaked my mind, so I try to refrain from that nowadays 

 

I'm not, and I have never been, saying that it is okay to steal. But I also know how common it is that people missjudge assets for being other poples work. I have experienced it myself a few times. The time I remember most was when the community accused me of stealing the hobbit skins from Celeglin and his TEA mod. As it turned out (when I proved it), mine was very similar as we obviously aimed for the same thing - resemblance to the movie caracters, but they very quite different still when comparion was made side by side. As such, I think making models is "risky" in terms of some of them ending up very similar and such thoughts come to mind.

Edain mod is, and have been for a very long time, my favourte mod, regardless what others think of that or the mod. The shere magnitute of what they do and the overall quality of their models is IMO very high. Not to mention that they are almost the only BFME mod that keep progress fairly high thoughout the years, with what seems to be a stable team. I have no reason to doubt their intentions or their work being "legit".

 

As far as critisism goes, I think it shoule be contructive, if any. Myself, I raraly leave critique, so I save comments for when I have something encouraging to say. Critisism can be good as in constructive though, like what made me redo the Stone Giants. But I would never dare to call other work "ugly". Espescially when the creator is not here to comment   I really do think the dwarves are very good, even though some have minor issues (Thorin's face being the biggest). But so do my models, just as others (even models from the most experienced modelers have issues IMO) and these dwarves are better then if I make polygon monsters that people would be annoyed about instead ^^

Anyways, I have more mods on my top list that makes me go:  , but I have no personal relations to any of them, except RJ (which is dead) and RC. So I am very happy to be trading with them and I am proud that they will use my models in their mod. I kow trading pisses people of, that think modding should be all about what you can do on your own. Unfortionately, not all are skilled in all aspects of modding and if you wanna finish a large scale mod before life finish you, you need cooperation. SEE will in no way look or play like Edain anyways, just like Edain will never look or play like SEE, no matter how many models we trade. The true essence of a mod is in the balance and the overall constellation of all things considered - IMO.   

Give my best to the Edain team Turin! 

I will send Ealendril more models as I finish them... 

Edited by Nazgûl, 23 August 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[Mathijs]

 

 

Then there's also the matter of working with Edain... They have been known to steal assets from other mods (such as TDH and a R:TW LotR mod), and they've largely ignored claims made by representatives from these teams. I was abused by both their fans and staff when I pointed out a Dwarven structure of theirs was ripped from TDH. I think they've changed that one now, though, after assuring me they only did so to 'make me happy' because I wasn't backing off.

 

So yeah, be careful. They're arrogant dillholes. 

 

Wow. Harsh words. I think it is okay that you do not like our models. It is your taste, we think they are fine. But that does not justify such harsh words against our team, especially a "division leader" should know better.

I honestly do not know about the model from TDH you mentioned, but I know our structure modeller and he is not the guy who steals other peoples work. It could be that our model was inspired by yours, but wouldnt that be a reason to be proud? And there is not one model from any R:TW mod in our game. TW game models would not fit into the scheme of BFME models, they are more realistic, while BFME one always have this comic touch. You could clearly spot TW models in the game, but there are none.

I know that you wont give a fuck about this post, but I, a arrogant dillhole, just wanted to say my opinion in this topic.

 

Keep it up Naz! Cooperation between mods can work fine, even though some people here do not want to see it work. 

 

 

This is what I meant. Even after I pointed the structure out with undeniable evidence, I got these exact responses, even though it did get swiftly replaced by a different model. That wouldn't have happened if I were wrong, it's just not something they want to admit to. Go through the screenshot archives of Edain, and you'll see lots of textures and models taken from T3A mods (which, though credited, were never gotten with permission).

 

I think most (if not all) of these are obsolete now, all of the stuff they put out now looks original to me, which means these aren't a problem to me anymore.

 

Anyway, I won't drag this thread down into some debate about using assets without permission.

[Nazgûl]

Added an awesome group picture to the top of post #1, where they managed to recreate the movie studio's promotional image with almost scary accuracy   Those models are the older versions btw, that M mentioned. Different, but still very good (IMO)

[Tacalmo]

Nazgul, I think it's great you are trading with Edain, it to, is one of my favorite mods.