17 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

Just wanted to share a thought, and see the reactions... In SEE, Moria faction has gotten the catapult from Angmar. Thus they have two ways of shooting rocks - catapult and trolls (three if you count the summoned Stone Giants in late game). Besides that, I find it somewhat annoying in game when several trolls show up to just start tossing rocks. It's somewhat OP and renders the catapults useless, while I also mostly see trolls as really strong melee units - especially with clubs. That's why I strongly lean towards disabling the rock throw for cave trolls and emphasize the need of catapults in late game. Thoughts/reactions?

[Troudabour]

Should Moria really have catapults? I mean lore wise, the goblins living in Moria wouldn't really have any use of catapults, since they live in a cave and all. I doubt they would even be capable of constructing something that advanced.
Why did you want to add catapults to their faction in the first place?

[JUS_SAURON]

I agree with Troudabour ... not everyone should have Catapults ..another method of slinging rocks keeps the game varied and interesting

[njm1983]

Some good points. The angmar catapult does have poor animations too. Perhaps it should be scrapped in favor of cave trolls throwing rocks.

[Nazgûl]

Hehe well, I expected reactions like that... However, it's still just a game, and not a lore true replica. Besides, in this game the goblins are on the OFFENSIVE, just like other factions. I find rock throwing trolls rather booring, and very OP since they are mid game and somewhat quickly shows up in high numbers hurling rocks like rain. I have always wanted SEE to be slow pace and focus on siege in late game. I think the troll catapult (slinger) is pretty cool. Anims are limited yes, but having two hill trolls as operators are a nice twist from the others so I'm gonna keep it in and I'm probably gonna disable the rock throw for trolls for now - and we'll see what beta testing gives for final descision.

[Rider of Rohan]

I'd say go for it but, if the majority doesn't agree you could always change it back

[njm1983]

Im fine with the decision. Itd make sense to disable the mountain trolls rock throw for mordor later as well. theyve got catapults. I dont remember any rocks getting thrown by trolls in the films anyway.

[Bofur]

I do think that if SEE is about realism, then every faction should have its weakness. For the goblins it should probable be seige, Dwarves would be hampered by having no easy-to-get cav/ranged, Elves by melee, and Mordor would have weak troop strength.
Just some ideas.

[Ridder Blauw]

I think we should keep the rock throw for trolls, after all, it's very well so that given the situation a troll could grab a boulder and throw it at whatever is bothering it.

The discussion on the catapult is a tough one, however in the end, goblins aren't as stupid as you might think, they can actually adapt to their environment, so in the case they really want to take down a structure, they could manage to do so, with a most likely crude construct... I guess that the catapult we have in place might not be crude enough, however, making it cruder would quickly involve animation work.

[njm1983]

Maybe the rock throw could be a one off special instead of a toggle? This way its usable but has to cool off before using again.

[Nazgûl]

Now THAT is an idea...! We could perhaps make it into a power/ability, instead of a standard option. Just like we did with the Flaming Arrows. Like one shot, then reload for a minute or so. I just don't like how 7-8 trolls show up, hurling rocks like crazy. Trolls are way cooler smashing units all over the place...

Edited by Nazgûl, 30 December 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Naugrim.]

Goblins aren't as stupid as you might think

From The Hobbit-
"It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far."

From this it sounds like goblins are smart, and are perfectly capable of making siege weaponry. However, it also says that at the time of the quest for Erebor the goblins of Goblin-Town weren't very advanced. In The Hobbit movie they were able to construct some pretty advanced looking torture devices, so I don't see why thy wouldn't be able to make catapults.

Edited by Naugrim., 30 December 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Also, this cat is quite simple compared to others and has no real moving parts as in machinery. It's completely operated by two trolls, just using sheer force to lounge the rocks. There's no devices or complicated construction in this model

[Lauri]

It was never an issue if they were to dumb to make one, but wheter they ever needed one. And underground, they didn't. Hell, nobody needs a catapult underground, I'd say it's quite risky
But most of SEE happens over ground, and Goblins do (in theory) need to quicken the destruction before the sun's blazing.

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, like I said, all factions are pretty much on the offensive in this game. You don't win by just defending yourself ;p

[Bofur]

Or you could do some serious hacking at the mordor catapult model, to make it look more gobbo-ish.

[Nazgûl]

Why? The Angmar cat is great in my opinion.. Might strap some gobo shields and scrap metal onto it though =)

[Ridder Blauw]

It was never an issue if they were to dumb to make one, but wheter they ever needed one. And underground, they didn't. Hell, nobody needs a catapult underground, I'd say it's quite risky
But most of SEE happens over ground, and Goblins do (in theory) need to quicken the destruction before the sun's blazing.

I agree with you, mostly because that's what I was aiming at with my post earlier.