95 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Rising]

Hey, tell that to the guy with the Corellian limpet on his face.  While I do think some of Thrawn's lines from FoC are overblown ("I have studied their art and now I'm strategizing my tactics for their destruction!") - not to mention, the blue star destroyer - I'm not convinced that caricature is the same as stereotype.

 

Ah, my misunderstanding, Madurai.  I can see that with Outbound Flight, yet you also have an increadibly powerful Jedi in C'baoth and the Force is definitely not science fiction (personally, I'm not happy with anything that noticeably dilutes Jedi - AotC arena scene included).  I also picked up on the space opera elements - the all-too-coincidental reoccuring characters.  Zahn has a lot of that between books too; Choices of One especially.  Even so, if you don't like that style, I'd recommend something along the lines of Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor or Dark Empire (which, obviously, isn't a novel).

 

I even get to stay on topic :

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-222637187.html

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 30 March 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Wow.  A couple of days ago, this would've qualified for an April Fools' Day post:

 

http://www.gameinfor...-lucasarts.aspx

 

Emotionally, the news is gut-wrenching: without LucasArts, my life would've followed a different path.  Yet, my logic gates can't help but view this as a necessary loss so there may be a spring.  I've found it increasingly difficult to laud their results over the past few years.

 

In different-but-related news, this is arguably the best thing ever:

 

http://www.kotaku.co...jedi-knight-ii/

[johnchm.10]

burn down ALL the disney stores!

Edited by johnchm.10, 04 April 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[johnchm.10]

on the other hand, maybe now there might be a release of the code for EaW/FoC, similar to what raven did

[Phoenix Rising]

A little more on the business aspects of closing LucasArts:

 

http://beta.fool.com...ucasarts/29284/

[johnchm.10]

well. i guess the lesson here is that overspecialization can and will hurt.

the last time LA made a game that was good on this list was 2006, with the release of FoC.

pretty much everything since then was either crap, or clone wars related (different kind of crap), or a re-release

at least in my opinion.

in that time, we could have had Rogue Squadron 4, BF3, KOTOR3, EaW patches, JK4, Republic Commando 2, another X-wing game......

but no. instead we get kinect star wars as the final chapter in the saga, this following a bunch of crap titles, about half of which to my recollection, are clone wars related.

good job george. 

[a.fake.name]

he last time LA made a game that was good on this list was 2006, with the release of FoC.

 

 

 

FOC without mods is rather dull, I think.

 

Fact is LucasArts has been making crap for far longer than that.

 

Hell, if they had just updated the Xwing alliance engine every few years, adding new ships with each movie, they could have had a rather popular series with a cult following.

 

Sorta like the EA sports titles each year, except for nerds.

 

 

 

 

Instead, LA gave us mostly crap for the longest time.


That said, I doubt Disney will do any better, and think they're just as likely to focus on mass market appeal and the lack of any balls in the gaming 'journalism' community to pump out games to rave reviews and a few gimmicks treated as big innovations.

basically, it'll be like what happenned to the Fallout franchise after bethesda got ahold of it, they're going to shed their 'obsolete' fanase for mass market appeal, and in the process star wars will loose what made it unique.......

Edited by a.fake.name, 09 April 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[abesinay]

I don't know what you're talking about with regards to Fallout. I thought Fallout 3 and Vegas were excellent, Vegas sure could have used some more but I thorougly enjoyed them both.

[a.fake.name]

I don't know what you're talking about with regards to Fallout. I thought Fallout 3 and Vegas were excellent, Vegas sure could have used some more but I thorougly enjoyed them both.

 

 

 

Play the original games in the series, no fast travel, no 'go here' magic quest compass, etc.

Basically, FO3 was heavily dumbed down by bethesda when they raped the franchise.

[abesinay]

Not entirely in Fallout 3, it was dumbed down true, but there was still a a lot of discoverable rarities and content that was not questable.

[a.fake.name]

Not entirely in Fallout 3, it was dumbed down true, but there was still a a lot of discoverable rarities and content that was not questable.

 

 

True, some Fallout feel did sneak into it.

[evilbobthebob]

Not "in the news" as such, but the recent "May the Fourth" Star Wars Steam sale has meant that Steam has run out of EaW keys! There is a massive 405 comment thread on the steam forum for the game, with people unable to get a key for the game. So thanks Valve/Disney/Petroglyph, that was a big chunk of users who are now less likely to be interested in the game enough to go looking for mods.

[Phoenix Rising]

You're joking... I've never heard of a game running out of keys.  Fantastic and awful at the same time.

[P.O._210877]

I prefer to concentrate on the fantastic part, just think of the visibility for the game (maybe we'll have some kind of updates) but more importantly for the genre. That's EXACTLY the kind of message the fans have to send; we WANT SW RTS (and as for myself RTT also) games. Hell! The game is seven years old and it didn't age well, but still it sells out! ON STEAM!!! I wasn't even aware such a thing was possible!

[a.fake.name]

What we simply need is for the companies that produce the shit to quit being greedy idiots and fucking shit up because of that.

 

95% of games these days seem to be designed for mass market appear only, and while thats fine for games meant for the mass market, taking a niche series like a Star Wars game (or Fallout) and pumping out subpar crap that just looks good for commericals and hype is just going to kill the niche off as people say fuck it and only play mods for older stuff.

 

 

Indeed, we here are a GREAT example of that.

 

EAW was, overall, a subpar game in the extreme, which had massive potential but they did it as cheaply and lazily as possible, and only really still is played due to mods which put a great deal of effort into overcoming those shortcomings.

 

Look at Xwing and the later flight sim games, compare them to the new SW games with flight, you see a massive LOWERING of quality.

 

Yes, the graphics are better, but the star wars feel of the gameplay is heavily degraded at the same time.

[P.O._210877]

What we simply need is for the companies that produce the shit to quit being greedy idiots and fucking shit up because of that.

 

95% of games these days seem to be designed for mass market appear only, and while thats fine for games meant for the mass market, taking a niche series like a Star Wars game (or Fallout) and pumping out subpar crap that just looks good for commericals and hype is just going to kill the niche off as people say fuck it and only play mods for older stuff.

 

 

Indeed, we here are a GREAT example of that.

 

EAW was, overall, a subpar game in the extreme, which had massive potential but they did it as cheaply and lazily as possible, and only really still is played due to mods which put a great deal of effort into overcoming those shortcomings.

 

Look at Xwing and the later flight sim games, compare them to the new SW games with flight, you see a massive LOWERING of quality.

 

Yes, the graphics are better, but the star wars feel of the gameplay is heavily degraded at the same time.

 

Not to mention the sheer pleasure of success, if I were to speak of a certain CR90 named Korolev what passes thru your mind? I must have played that mission more than a dozen time before I figured out how to successfully protect that damn corvette from those "insert profound obscenities here" TIE bombers!!!! There's just no comparison with todays' games.

 

But what baffles me the most is the fact that SW fans are, generally speaking, a tad obsessed with what they like about the Saga and this seems to be completely ignored by the higher-ups. For gamers playing extreme quality SW games is as important as a perfect set of armor for a 501st member. We don't care how much time we'll have to wait if the end result is a GREAT game, we'll even be glad to pay a greater price for such a thing. They are actually siting on a pile of money and they just don't seem to understand just who buys SW games. Sure the all powerful drive to appeal to the masses explains their short sightedness but it stuns me to realize that not one suit wearing greedy bastard has had the idea of milking the true fans for all they're worth.

 

OK, that's my POV and it's not the only one out there. But in all honesty, who here wouldn't give a pint of his/her blood tomorrow morning if we had a guaranty that somehow it would help make a REALLY good SW RTS?

 

For those who have religious or medical conditions that proscribe the donation of blood, please excuse the reference if it offended you in any way; it is not my intent.

Edited by P.O._210877, 05 May 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[johnchm.10]

id agree with you, fake, except a few things. 1, GL's fixation on TCW (starting even before the CGI stuff) kinda drained resources that i know we all feel would have been better spent elsewhere. the only post-endor games out there were 1 section of Galactic Battlegrounds, 1 level in FoC, and the Jedi Knight games. and FoC you can barely count because of it being literally a single level. Jedi Outcast and Academy were made more by Ravensoft. pre-Naboo games fare even worse, just the KoToR game and TOR. oh and one level in Rogue Squadron was more of a tie-in to Dark Empire. everything else takes place in the movies era or the CW era

2. contractual agreements. the game companies are contracted to make a <insert genre here> taking place in <insert time/era> by Licencing. they are given a set budget with which to pay their employees and for licencing fees if they use an external engine or legal fees if they set up a proprietary engine. they are also mostly given a set deadline. yes they theoretically can ask for additional funding, or if the project is ambitious, an extension, but the companies risk a lot by even asking unless they build up prior reputations as being worth the risk. given that they are given a set deadline and budget, they have to figure out how best to use said resources in the best way possible, with the assumption that those are the set-in-stone, final numbers. 

3: concept and ambition. this kinda goes in with 2. you can pretty much start with a clean slate or have it be a sequel/prequel to an already made game. with option 1, you have to be careful with what you do because you are venturing into new territory with either the story or the game, and you dont necessarily know how the fans will react. an example of this working is KoToR 1. they took basically D&D and applied what amounts to an untouched chapter in the Star Wars universe to it, and guess what, it sold really well and is considered a benchmark in both RPGs and Star Wars. but its basically the love-child of D&D and Star Wars. option 2 is best described by X-wing Alliance. the flight mechanics were little changed from XvT, just improved somewhat, and some features added.

on the other hand, you have EaW, which needed another 6 months to a year in my mind to bring it up to a better level in terms of canon and gameplay (pretty much by having correct amounts or armaments of ships, etc...), and KoToR 2. granted it used much the same system as KoToR 1, but if they had more time to make the game, they would have had a vastly better game, not had (as much) cut content, and probably would have gained enough influence to get an actual KoToR 3.

4: selling the games. they have to decide if making a Flight-sim that will appeal more to the established SW fans (Rogue Squadron series) is a better decision than making a shooter that appeals to a lot of people more on game mechanics than its lore (Battlefront series.) more non-SW fans i know have played Battlefront than the Rogue Squadron games or the X-wing games. its rare when they can combine the two in such a way that will still bring fans in, but not in a way that alienates current fans (LEGO games. retelling of the movies, kinda says screw you to some of the canon, but its okay because it does so humorously and its not a serious retelling.)

i know we all want a JK4, a KOTOR 3, Republic Commando 2, Rogue Squadron 4, etc, but what of the people who have never played a game in that series. i doubt many of them would be willing to purchase a copy of the preceding game in said series, just so they could understand everything going on in the new game, barring some kind of deal on the older game or something of that nature.

5: investors. you might not like it and you dont have to like it, but these companies are often publicly owned via shareholders in some way (direct shares of the company or shares of a company who owns the company) these shareholders often times want to see a return on their investment. that doesnt make them evil. in order to meet that return, the companies have to put out a certain number of games. if they dont, some shareholders might decide to pull their investments and thus deprive the company of some of their funding.

[Phoenix Rising]

Well, with yearly sequels and spinoffs upcoming, expect mass-market tie-in games directed at younger/new fans through at least 2020.  If it doesn't support the overall media blitz, it just won't happen.  That's been the case historically.

 

I also want to add a caveat to john's point about people not willing to jump into the middle of a series.  If the sequel is critically acclaimed, I think you can throw that out the window.

[a.fake.name]

Not gona bother quoting because the tagless quote bubbles in the most recent IPB incarnations are a pain in the ass and it's not worth it to remember how to turn that new crap off.

 

@P.O._210877

Oh dear god yes, I actually beat that mission my first run thru, but barely.

 

THOSE were real games, unlike the crap we get now (including EAW/FOC w/o mods)

@PR account

I agree, the whole mass market tie-in philosiphy is what is making gaming suck.

 

They never bother to realize the fundamental truth that they are selling a niche product, but telling the niche market to go fuck itself.

Of course sometimes the niche market sends a clear fuck you in return, such as when Bethesda got the rights to Fallout they ended up disabling avatars on their forums for a bit due to the Fallout fans who were angry because bethesda has a history of mass market crap, and lying their asses off about it.

 

Personally I consider Star Wars (like trek) to be dead (or at least dormant) despite the promise of years of movies to come.

 

Of course, considering the same idiot is going to be directing the star wars movies as the new trek ones, we have lots of lens flare to come it seems.

 

Another example of the mass market stupidity, J.J. Abrams has been quoted more than once saying he wants to make trek more like star wars, because apparently in his mind they're the same thing.... yeah don't expect much from the new star wars movies.

 

It's a fucking shame too, because if Lucas had a LITTLE vision he could have turned his star wars empire into a dominant force in entertainment.

 

It would have been as simple as doing a live action TV series set in the star wars universe, something as simple as basing it on some fringe cargo transport and its crew, and throw them into the vicinity of various events from the books/movies/games from time to time.

 

Of course, the problem in the end is gamers.

 

 Basically, it's became so easy to be a 'gamer' these days that people buy mass marketed crap because they don't know OR care that there used to be much better products.

 

Personally, tho, for a star wars RTS, I'd say that the best real option currently would be in the Armada 2 engine (shitty Star Trek RTS activision made), using the enhancements from the FleetOps mod (that games version of PR In some ways) to allow further tuning.

 

To be honest, as good as PR has been over the years, I still usually only have EAW installed for a few months out of the year before the sheer stupidity of the engine itself (despite the mods enhancements) make me uninstall, and that's the real shame, because if the people that made the game hadnt been focused on a mass marketed product they would have had the time to make it more fun.

Edited by a.fake.name, 05 May 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[johnchm.10]

we all have our own vision of what we want from the franchise.

personally, aside from the games i mentioned, i had an idea a while back which i know would never happen. basically turn the books and comics into OVA's. as for the future movies, http://star-wars.suv...s-revealed.html

im liking that cast, either their picks or the write-ins