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9-11 Debate


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#1 Luca

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 07:27 PM

Sorry guys but i really can't understand this point of view. All of you say that is "not correct" or "not nice" to see in a videogame things like 11 sept...well this is just because the 11 sept as appened to you.
What should iraqy civilian say about games on iraqi wars?
what should muslims say about the role of them in CCgenerals?

This is not a polital-ideologic forum, so i'll stop it now. But your point of view about realistic games is just ipocrit.

#2 Mastermind

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:06 AM

Indeed indeed. It is your right to do this, and my right not to play the mod if I don't want to. Quite frankly I probably won't, not because of that, but because of a lack of time. Good luck with the mod.
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Well, when it comes to writing an expository essay about counter-insurgent tactics, I'm of the old school. First you tell them how you're going to kill them. Then you kill them. Then you tell them how you just killed them.

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#3 Skywaters

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 07:03 AM

Well Said Agile.

I don't mind the units being in there, it's just a reminder. Like I said, everytime I watch USA_06 cutscene and see those carbombs and hurts, but I live.

Sure I don't like it but it's the world and these things happen. If it was October 13 2002 and I saw it i'd be majorly unhappy but now it's just life.

Good luck on the mod, feel free to ask any other questions.
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#4 Detail

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 07:59 AM

Odd how people connect Sept11th with Iraq and not Afganustan.

#5 Luca

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:11 AM

I'm italian, so my english is not very good. I never meant to attack somebody. I'm just saying that's hypocrite to critizice reality reproductions when these are about bad things that happened to you, and enjoy them when are about others.
"but they [iraqi people] don't have to worry about waking up to the sound of their father or brother being tortured or their mother being raped."
If you look to the news about Iraq, you should know about the power of criminal-fanatics groups have now in that nation. Children can't go to school, cause they risk to be kidnapped, women could not go alone in the streets cause they risk the rage of integralists. Rapes and criminality are increased cause there's no law in that country.
In CCG the "danni collaterali" (in english maby collateral effects) are visible...civilian exploding, burning, poisoned...just what happens every day on palestinian civilian skin during the "security operations" of israel...due facce della stessa medaglia (2 faces of the same coin)...it's just war and hate...just like 11 sept...just like Deir Yassin...just like Sebredenica...just like Holocaust
I think is not justly to be against only the reproductions of bad things happened to us.
I'm not attacking, i'm explainig my point of view. I think it's good to share our views.

Thanks all you guys for the support to all my (little) modding. Bye.

#6 Skywaters

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:50 PM

We're not attacking you it's just opinion. It's life and hey we'll live there just touchy issues. However you are more than welcome to but it in your mod, we won't stop you because that's not right (or fair).

I've actually been putting together (with the help of some friends of mine) a rememberance clip of Bali for myself and my friends (for some closure). While it hurts to watch we understand that this is life and horrible things happen each day and that we must move on.

Now i'll stop before I turn this into a mega political discussion and detail boots my backside.
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#7 Detail

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:55 PM

Read the board guidelines ;)2

I'd recormend a new topic though.

#8 Mastermind

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:49 PM

Time for a split, the rest is still in Generals, but this goes to Open Topic.
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Well, when it comes to writing an expository essay about counter-insurgent tactics, I'm of the old school. First you tell them how you're going to kill them. Then you kill them. Then you tell them how you just killed them.

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#9 Detail

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 05:45 PM

I don't mind about suicide bombers anymore. It was touchy for a while, but i the Japanise suicide bombers caused some damage during WWII and thats now forgoten except for the days dedicated to it.

I was on a plane, over the ocian, when the twin towers were attacked, so that was a bit scary. Alot of people said "move on", but i did not want to. Now my words sound less like an experiance and more like a story.

In the end everything is forgoten. Thats why war is such a waste of life. So many people die for so little.

#10 Skywaters

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 06:05 PM

I don't mind about suicide bombers anymore. It was touchy for a while, but i the Japanise suicide bombers caused some damage during WWII and thats now forgoten except for the days dedicated to it.

I was on a plane, over the ocian, when the twin towers were attacked, so that was a bit scary. Alot of people said "move on", but i did not want to. Now my words sound less like an experiance and more like a story.

In the end everything is forgoten. Thats why war is such a waste of life. So many people die for so little.

Well Said.

War may liberate a country, may save the world but often so much is forgotten about it...
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#11 Agile

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 08:00 PM

Sometimes war is needed. I don't know how I feel about this Iraq war. I guess Bush must have out best interest in mind, its not like he had a bad dream about Iraq so he decided to get them, but the reasons are so construed from the public its tough to tell.
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#12 Banshee

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 09:01 PM

I don't mind about suicide bombers anymore. It was touchy for a while, but i the Japanise suicide bombers caused some damage during WWII and thats now forgoten except for the days dedicated to it.

I was on a plane, over the ocian, when the twin towers were attacked, so that was a bit scary. Alot of people said "move on", but i did not want to. Now my words sound less like an experiance and more like a story.

In the end everything is forgoten. Thats why war is such a waste of life. So many people die for so little.

Well Said.

War may liberate a country, may save the world but often so much is forgotten about it...

My question is simple: Is Iraq really free? Was Bush's real intention to "free Iraq"? Iraq today isnt governed by Iraqi people and they are dependent of the current (yank) govern that is selling their oil around. And why are there independent factions using terrorist tactics against the coalizion? All these questions don't have clear answers in my mind.... but I never trusted Bush's intentions there...

Now, games about it.. I don't have anything against it... but governments spend a lot of money to promote turism in their lands and sometimes the game or movie or TV program or any kind of entertaining stuff distorts the characteristics of the place creating stereotypes does not fit the real characteristics of the place, sometimes deteriorating the turism of the place. I.e.: China government HATED Generals because of one of the missions where Terrorists have a meeting in one of the landmarks of China where the Chineses have to destroy it.... And they probably hated the excessive nuclear weapon usage of China... which really doesnt fit their characteristics... it's easier to see yanks using massive destruction weapons (nuclear bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in ww2 and many other nuclear tests made around) than China.

Now if someone creates a game where you are a CIA (or an ex-CIA) agent and have to plan a terrorist attack in USA to shock the world and project the USA international image as victims and heroes of the 'world wide anti-terrorism campaign' and world leaders to defend the world against future alien invasions and rule the rest of the world, then certainly many yanks will get extremely pissed off at the game, even if it's not the reality (or doesnt seems to be)...
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#13 Agile

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 09:05 PM

First of all, there are plenty of games where something catastrophic happens to the US, there are plenty of games where you blow up US landmarks, and I've never heard a word about people being upset. Remember RA2 and the Statue of Liberty. People only got upset when YR was being released right after 9/11.

And I'm so sick of being called a yank.
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#14 MuDsHoVeLeR

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 09:15 PM

Too lazy to quote detail, but that part about "so many lives for so little"... that's not true for the most part. Admittedly, however, it depends on how you look at it...

From a personal standpoint, that's a true statement. Why did 'Rick' have to die? What'd he do to deserve it? What'd we get out of it? Nothing.

From a broader standpoint, however, it's false. So little? Well Hitler isn't around anymore, I'd say that's something pretty big (Jewish race was saved, after all, not to mention the rest of the world). Hell, without war, America wouldn't even exist! We'd still be part of Britain, and who knows what would've happened then. We could've been better off, or Britain could've crumbled under economic stress and China could be the dominant world power, who knows. Anyway, there's *almost* always a justification for war... it's when that justification is lost that war gets ridiculous. There's civil wars in Africa right now where people don't know WHY they're fighting, they're only doing so because they were taught that so and so is the enemy since day one.

I suppose my view is a little biased since I'm strongly leaning towards a military career (SEALs!) but I try to be as objective as possible. I'm not about to say that all effects of war are good, but war sure as hell isn't pointless...

#15 Detail

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 10:05 PM

Would it have been that bad under Hitler? His Arion race idea was a good one. I beleve that Unity is One and that was one of Hitlers objectives. I don't like the killing of the Jews part (David is a jewish name).

#16 MuDsHoVeLeR

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 10:34 PM

yes it WOULD have been that bad under Hitler. Secret Police, extermination of people he simply doesn't like, the inability to trust anyone. Plus there'd be constant revolution and rebellion, it'd be total anarchy... the only way it wouldn't was if he forced (and i mean FORCED) peace, which wouldn't be any better...

#17 Skywaters

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 10:01 AM

Look at Isreal and Palestine.

The Holy City under attack constantly and the even sadder thing. So many innocent people are dieing.

I don't think you ever want to elect a General as a prime minister. Yes that's right Ariel Sharon is actually General Ariel Sharon.

Look at Benjamin Yehtenjahu (As close as I could get) He accomplished more in 2 years that Sharon was in 4 (Or is it now 5). When Jahu was in power it wasn't suicide attacks followed by Airstrikes 24/7.
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#18 Luca

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 10:03 AM

My point of view about 11/9 is similar to MuDsHoVeLeR's one.

If u look only to the attack of 11/9, if u look only to the innocent victims, u'll feel attacked for no reson.

But if u look at all that tragedy with the eye of history, if u study the american gepolitical tattics, if u have a conception of reality that's out of the bla bla of the mrs that warm them ass in the white house...if u have a conception of reality that's not just from 11/9 to now...u could see all the mess, all the hate, all the innocent died by Usa hand...it's tragically just causa and conseguenza.

#19 Luca

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 10:05 AM

nethanyayu is for the deportation (nicer called transfer) of all palestinian people...

#20 Skywaters

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 11:56 AM

Because for close to 5000 years that has been their land. I mean hey it's there land why not?
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