37 replies to this topic

[Pasidon]

Also, Pas, I really don't care for your 'it's fiction so it's dumb to discuss it because it's not real' argument. Get over yourself.

I didn't say it's dumb to discuss.  I implied it was dumb to discuss.  Yet here I am, also doing it.  I guess I'll pull out my digital text version of LotR and quick search for words like "brothel", "prostitute", "courtesan", and "pimp."  And upon discovery, I'll mark the occasion with 2 minutes of satisfaction over the fact that Matt's essay had, in fact, not earned its corn.

[MattTheLegoman]

I always took Celebrian's "torment" by orcs to mean rape... If that's in any way connected to this stuff...

Yes and no is it connected to this stuff. The orcs were evil and most certainly did that (and worse), the evil men of the east might also have been accused of it as well.

 

 

Since brothels wouldn't particularly effect the story of the LOTRs they may not have been mentioned, but does that really mean they were intentionally obliterated? Surely the scope of a fiction is that it is either mentioned explicitly or left to your own imagination, meaning no definite answer. This is like theology, rather uselessly arguing for all history about something which can never be proved or disproved because you're basing the argument on finite source material with no additional research possible.

The writer's intentions are clear.

 

 

 

Don't forget, Tolkien wrote LotR and some of his other works as a supposed translation/interpretation of the Red Book of Westmarch, which is a second-hand account written by various authors (Bilbo, Frodo, etc). Within the canon, this account is by no means exhaustive (a surprisingly post-modern construction). LotR as it is written being a translation/interpretation of a fictional account from an era long forgotten, it is fair to assume that Tolkien's personal view of sex, prostitution etc informed his interpretation. One could go as far as to say that even if the fictional proto-text contained these subjects, Tolkien might have left them out. 

 

What I'm getting at is that Tolkien's preferred metanarrative regarding LotR sort of contradicts your argument, MtL. We do not know everything about Middle-earth, and the things we do know cannot be taken as 100% fact (according to the author). So we really don't know if Edoras had a whorehouse.

I did not consider this. I expect that we work with the best we have.

[hoogan]

That's all well and good, but where are the structures? The Models? the skins?

You can't very well go on discussing this without some form of visual aids.

 

I invision something along the lines of Beetlejuice. You know, sort of warped and tilted and brightly lit with a big wide balcony and a huge garish sign. And don't forget the characters. I especially want to get a look at the Goblin Gals.

 

Just think.... Orc Escorts!

 

This thread is useless without pictures.

[MattTheLegoman]

Does the Inn from Battle for Middle-earth II serve your interests? Otherwise there will be no such thing here in this topic.

 

As a side note, the people in charge of the website are looking into my complaint and have already removed what first brought my attention to it and will probably be making some rules about it in the future. So I am happy that that has been resolved.

[Pasidon]

Wow.  Well done.  Making fools look like fools.  That's what I like to see.

[hoogan]

Oh.

I see.

Relishing the experience of viewing massive armies slaughtering each other by hacking each other apart with swords and flame and Word Of Power nuclear blasts is okay, but inject a little humor or show a little leg and all hell breaks loose.

My my. What a small narrow little world you live in. Try opening the door. There is a big wide world out there. I might suggest you step back, take a breath, and turn off the computer for a while.

It's not real. You do know that don't you?

[MattTheLegoman]

Yes. I am not telling you what you can or cannot do. =p

I do not think it is a good idea, but you could make a topic here calling for female images of orcs and goblins if you like (within the terms and conditions of Revora of course.). =p

[Pasidon]

Hi.  Pasidon again.

 

People can make content of whatever they want.  Erm... not copy-written content.  But pretty much anything.  Yet, certain things do have certain demographics... mod makers and mappers don't always consider audiences.  Sometimes it is better to censor crap just to keep your demographic appropriate. Matt's doing fine with with that, even if his reasons are slightly less simple.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

So, do tell us what was the offending piece on this website about?

[MattTheLegoman]

Someone built a brothel in Edoras. It isn't there any more.

[Gen.Kenobi]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

 

 

 

[MattTheLegoman]

That doesn't work in mathematics or logic. =p

 

SetA only has one letter

a is not in SetA "a is impossible"

 

Then SetB is not {every letter in the alphabet, but not a}

 

You must have more information than just what is impossible to know the truth.

 

Aaaaannnnnddddd, I have already stated that it is clear what Tolkien intended, that there are no R-18 stuff for the Free Peoples of Middle-earth.

[Pasidon]

That 'ah boy.

[Gen.Kenobi]

But that's exactly logic as it's essence.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

So... tell me why there is a problem with having a brothel in Edoras? Or, more specifically, what business is it of yours to dispute their decision?

[Mathijs]

Because MtL's religion does not approve of such lewd behaviour, and he's got the ultra-conservative Tolkien on his side, whose work the website claims to respect and follow.

 

Still, I think my argument of 'you cannot know', taking the metanarrative in consideration, is a pretty solid counter.

[{IRS}Athos]

Then again, Christian doctrine also has points to state on the subject of judging others.
 
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." - Matthew 7:1-2, KJV

Said measure, in this case, being quoting passages of writing and interpreting them as one sees fit.

Edited by {IRS}Athos, 31 January 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[MattTheLegoman]

So... tell me why there is a problem with having a brothel in Edoras? Or, more specifically, what business is it of yours to dispute their decision?

Roleplay by children. It had to go or risk the law of whichever country it was in.

Athos, I put myself upto the risk of being judged by you lot about my sexuality. I have also been informed of gossip on the website about me, so I put up with it and do nothing about that.

Mathijs, that is an issue. But we work with what there is.

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 01 February 2014 - 02:00 AM.