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[Mentoring Diary] IlPrincipino -> PyroJack


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#1 ICT

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:38 PM

Awesome, keep it comin!

Enjoy your stay you 2. If you dont know what this topic is about, take a look in the other ones :p ;)

 

Best,

~ICT


"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#2 IlPrincipino

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:10 PM

Hi PyroJack!

 

Hopefully I can help you to improve your gameplay and knowledge during this time .I should have no problem helping you in 1v1 or 2v2 and I'm pretty decent in 3v3 and 4v4 also.

Only problem is I can't be active as much as I would like, but I will find some spare time to play and watch replays.

However, you can ask me here whatever you want to know and I'll share my knowledge :).



#3 PyroJack

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

Hi IIPrincipino! First of all thank you for agreeing to do this, It's very good of you to give up some of your time.
You'll have to let me know when you have some free time and I'll log onto the server with you.

Just a few questions about things I've come unstuck with over the last few days:

     How would you fight in a 1vs1 against a Gondor who is camping with laser towers, a marketplace, a hit and run gandy and catapults covering other catapults? I don't find this easy with any army.

     Would you try to base rush mordor in a 1vs1 with FoL the same way you would do with an isen? (3 horses with blades shields and PP elves). What strategy would you incorporate after this to pressure the mordor if your base rush attempts are repelled? 

    Would you recommend always using wedge formation on your horses when your base rushing?

 

    What would be the best build order to use in a 1vs1 as a mordor using haradrim to creep?

Thanks again!
 



#4 IlPrincipino

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:19 PM

It's not easy to break good Gondor campers, but usually you have some mapcontrol to your advantage and therefore a strong economy. With isen and mordor I suggest you spam catapults and ballistas (and some mines) from 2-3 siegeworks from the nearest outpost (Fords of Isen as an example). You should be able to outspam the gondors trebs with catapults/ballistas so just keep firing at walls and buildings. Aim some of the catas/ballistas at gondors trebs. Make sure you have trolls/pikes/combos protecting your catas from horses/gtw. The most important thing though, is to never send in an army in gondors castle if your not certain you will be able to destroy all buildings. That's how most camping games ends; you gets frustrated and tired of micro'ing catas and you send in your whole army in a desperate attempt to win ASAP. You fail and feed the gondor powerpints til he/she gets aod and he/she gets back into the game. With Rohan it's more difficult because your only siege-option is ents which are slow and easy targetable by catas. You can use Treebeards leadership to increase your ent's attack range, but if the Gondor micro the catas well it's still a painful mission. Aragorn with Anduril + Blademaster works nice against catas and can stand up vs laser-towers fairly easy. Your other option is gc (but only if your theo is lvl 4). You can send horses with gc to kill catas inside (and sometimes outside) the castle and also kill siegeworks and/or cita. Anyway the real question is if you have enough motivation and time to consume to win this. You will find that a very few use sw+mass catas and among the good players you will never see it (exception can be some hard Mu's where camping is neccesary). Maybe my best advice is to quit :p

 

As Gondor: If I have a good start (meaning destroying a mill with starting units and/or taking 4-5 creeps) I would chose to baserush and with shields only. If you wait for blades mordor will most likely have enough trolls to defend. If you have elves when mor have 2-3 trolls you should win pretty easy. If I fail the first attempt I would (depending on what I achieved with the rush) keep pressuring with additional horses with full upgrades or focus on mapcontrol and save for gtw (or buying fara and archers). With experience you will know what you should do at certain scenarios, but remember, that confidence also play a role in it. Some days you micro horses like a champ and some days you're too lazy and cba rush so you stick with 2 horse>gtw :D

As Rohan: I guess 3 horse with armor+elves is the most reliable option. Most mordor nowadays goes harads>rhun>naz/trolls so it might be a bit tricky to get elves pp since mor is capable of getting good amount of mc and creeps with that strat. Without elves you basically can't pull of a succesful baserush. Imo rhun-soldiers are pretty hard to deal with so you need a good early game and not let mor get many creeps in order to keep the number of rhuns down. If  mordor make trolls, just do as you do with gondor.

 

A personal preferance I guess, but if a horsebat have much towers aimed at them it's better to stay in line and vice versa.

 

I would do Pit>SH>Palace>SH>Harad>keep filling base with SH and keep doing harads>rhuns and then troll/naz.

 

Here's link to mordor guides if you want to look: http://www.gamerepla...n_guides_mordor



#5 PyroJack

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:35 PM

Thanks for all that, It's really useful. I'll try and incorporate it into my gameplay.

How would you approach beating a Gondor on fords with a Rohan? My tactic last time I played was 3 horses -> ent. I got 6 of the 8 creeps, always had at least half of the farms up to the ent rush and took out over half of his base with ents and horses; but he built two catapults on the walls with the money he'd saved for gandalf and was able to weather it. I kept rough map control and came back with upgrades, theoden and more ents, but by that time he had gtw out. I tried using HA to combat the gtw, but slowly started to lose control of the game. Wish I'd remembered to save the replay. 

Give me a shout if your ever free to go on the server and play a few games. 

Thanks



#6 PyroJack

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

4 of the 6 creeps*



#7 I_Que_147

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 07:30 AM

I'm hijacking this thread!

 

Mark, I may be a noob, however you lost that game because you went for upgrades. As you yourself said he spent all his gandalf cash on defending, had half his base taken out and no map control, a fairly detrimental situation to say the least. If you had just saved for ents again, while retaining map control, you would had won quite easily.

 

Hijack over^^



#8 Artemis

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 01:16 AM

Yo, also hijacking this, because I think the other hijack is the wrong approach.

 

I'd not advise to get Ents a second time. You should almost always delete the entmoot right after it finished, you don't need any more ents than the initial 4. Also, it gives you 1000 gold back.

 

In that scenario you described, I'd just get Aragorn w/ Anduril asap, send him in to destroy the wall trebs, then after those are down, rush in w/ horses and Theo. Since you should have (almost) all map, you should have upgrades immediately after Aragorn.


Edited by Artemis, 10 February 2014 - 01:16 AM.


#9 PyroJack

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:12 AM

Thanks for the inputs guys, I value your opinions. 
What are your thoughts princi? (If it's cool I call you that :).



#10 I_Que_147

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 07:04 AM

@artemis I am a noob so I'm happy to be taught however, it costs 3.5k for aragorn and presuming you had no pp it would take a while to get anduril, would this not be slower than building ents? You do get 1k back from selling the entmoot so say aragorn is 2.5k, you still  require the pp and a single tower would destroy horses without upgrades?

 

Overall, if getting aragorn is slower (I've not a clue) do you not run a higher risk of your opponent getting gandalf, and subsequentially being right back in the game?



#11 IlPrincipino

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 05:32 PM

What Artemis said I guess. Most Gondors starts to save for gtw after defending vs ents, meaning there's no reason to build a 2nd entmoot when walls are already down.

You will have pp for anduril normally if you didn't take elves or land. So aragorn is a good choice as Artemis described.

Most ppl call me pino, but ye princi is fine aswell :p

Edited by IlPrincipino, 10 February 2014 - 07:18 PM.


#12 Artemis

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 10:06 PM

@artemis I am a noob so I'm happy to be taught however, it costs 3.5k for aragorn and presuming you had no pp it would take a while to get anduril, would this not be slower than building ents? You do get 1k back from selling the entmoot so say aragorn is 2.5k, you still  require the pp and a single tower would destroy horses without upgrades?

 

Overall, if getting aragorn is slower (I've not a clue) do you not run a higher risk of your opponent getting gandalf, and subsequentially being right back in the game?

 

Since you will attack horses w/ ents and oftentimes also kill a statue or well with them, you get quite a lot of PP from your entrush. This combined with the PP you get from creeping and occasionally fighting his horses should easily give you enough PP for Anduril. naturally, as Pino said, you're going to want to skip Elves summon as you'd most likely not acquire enough PP for Anduril then.

 

As for your other question, I've basically answered it already. While you're entrushing, Gondor is forced to defend its base which in turn allows you to take the entire map. With all those outer farms, you have money for Aragorn and upgrades in no time. Also, Theoden grants a 50 % armor bonus, which helps a lot vrs. towers and/or Fara.

 

If the game really went the way it was described in PyroJack's post, Gondor shouldn't have a lot more than 2-3 horses with upgrades and maybe Faramir. Since apparently he saved for Gtw, he probably doesn't even have any of those. I went 245/9 with Rohan on the old servers and I entrushed 9/10 games vs Gondor to prevent them from camping and trust me, it does work the exactly way I described.



#13 PyroJack

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:14 PM

Thank you again for the advice, I'll post some new questions shortly.



#14 Rap7ure

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:33 AM

that was the games against me lol wasnt it ;)



#15 PyroJack

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:08 AM

If your Easily, then yes. 
I thought you'd be taller ;)



#16 Easily

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

Waaaait a minute, are you suggesting Rap7ure and me are the same person, Pyro?

I can assure you we are not!



#17 Rap7ure

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

sewiked :p



#18 PyroJack

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:54 AM

You'd have had to have beaten me in a 1vs1 for that game to have been against you. :p 

I'm still active Princi, if you ever get some free time to play a game or two. Good luck with the $100 tourney.



#19 IlPrincipino

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:44 PM

Yes, sure, I have realized now that we haven't played yet :p I will be on in the weekend, maybe we'll meet then.
Thanks :)




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