I've been kicking a rebalance idea around for a while, and I thought I'd see what folks thought....
Ok, basically, remove snubcraft from the build list.
Have fighters be gained from the capital craft that launch them.
Another varriation of the idea, remove snubcraft lacking a hyperdrive from the build list and just let them launch from compliments.
Thoughts on a rebalance idea..
#1
Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:53 PM
Playing PR when stoned is awesome
#2
Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:02 PM
Thats pretty much the original game. I understand how petroglyph got to that design decision, however it seems to me as a lazy solution.
Logically all snubcraft should need carriers or bases (whether on or over a planet) somewhere. In the original game, only ties without hyperdrive were so lucky/unfortunate to not to be able to built separately. Instead they just popped up free of cost in battle. Rebels however had to pay for their snubcraft, thus forcing a simulation of the poor little rebel ships to attack the big bad imperial ships cliché (and making the game inbalanced).
If the game is to be balanced, all snubcraft should be removed from build lists, but in this case no snubcraft can operate separately from a carrier, which pretty much eliminates ep.IV death star attack and x-wing / tie fighter games feeling (which they wanted to keep).
PRs version of having all snubcraft in building and research list is nice and thorough, but it's not supported by said game design (starships don't act as transports on galaxy map or in space battle), so yep building snubcrafts without hyperdrives is kind of pointless.
I've got an idea, but I don't know if it's possible: how about returning to the original system as mr.fakename suggested, snubcraft without hyperdrive can not be built (but could be researched, which would effect space battle ship build lists *see below)
maybe there is a possibility to make carriers to be like the starbases in skirmish: they could build (a limited number according to their canon compliment size) squadrons for credits, thus eliminating free of cost snubcraft spawn (main cause of inbalance), and unwanted/random/slow squadron spawning from carriers. So this fee (call it mission cost or whatever) should be payed every time a squadron is launched in a space battle from a carrier. This method would even make possible another idea of mr.fakename: ability to choose warhead load according to mission profile by "building" another type of the same unit, without flooding the UI on galaxy map.
Edited by megabalta, 11 February 2014 - 07:13 PM.
#3
Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:30 PM
There is also the problem of what happens to the craft after the battle? Coding a refund might be possible, but knowing the engine it might no too. Remember build times and cost of compliments is factored in already.
Also, on personal preference/game play reasons I like hyperdrive equipped fighters being buildable. I often use flights as per-battle raiders or harassment before sending the full fleet. I just assume that the planet they hit and fade back to has proper facilities.
There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the Force.
#4
Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:38 PM
According to the idea a mission cost is to be payed for every spawned squadron in every space battle, which is not the same cost as building a squadron on the galaxy map. After the battle squadron goes poof, it's basically the same as compliments in PR1.2, just for a fee, and with better control what to spawn. Hyperdrive capable snubcraft are to be left as they are now. And yes, it's probably lots of work, but that is for the knowhowxmlworks guys to say. It's just an idea to solve a couple of problems that came up in the forums.
Edited by megabalta, 11 February 2014 - 07:39 PM.
#5
Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:09 AM
Ohh, I picked a topic people like I see.....
My favorite solution is to just restrict all snubcraft to compliments, making hero snubcraft MUCH more important, and carriers more than a larger area of effect fighter heal than tugs. Most of the work for that would consist of removing fighters, and with heroes allready upgradable next version it would allow for even more effect from hero units.
Prehaps allow the Rebels/Imps to recruit smugglers/pirates/mercs (varried by world, some having two or all three) as a way to squeeze a few more snubcraft into a battle.
If nothing else, it would give the ships with varriant loadouts found on neutral worlds more of a purpose.
And just to be clear I'm not in favor of any idea yet, I just think it's worth discussing.
edit: as for the xml work... well considering it's just text, prehaps those that know it could do a thread teaching it to those of us willing to learn, extra hands to do stuff would make it easier to make limited scale minimods to test the more popular ideas we come up with.
Edited by a.fake.name, 12 February 2014 - 05:12 AM.
Playing PR when stoned is awesome
#6
Posted 14 February 2014 - 06:47 PM
The one problem with having carrier based compliemnts only is what are you going to do about strike fighters with independent hyperdrive capability.
X-Wings and Y-Wings are a classic - and in the battle of Hoth 2 X-Wings were assigned as escorts to each departing GR-75A transport.
It also gives you a massive problem with snubfighters that are not based on a carrier. Xg-1 Star Wings, TIE Avengers, and TIE Defenders all would be lost, let alone Preybirds, Nova Wings, B-Wings and K-Wings!
You also lose planetary defense fighters, such as the early IRD's that have planetary defense roles, but lack hyperdrive capability.
Let's face it - it would be a much more dull game if you only got TIE Fighters, TIE Interceptors, TIE Bombers, Headhunters, X-WIngs and Y-wings in play.
I currently have a juicy range of snubfighters to use when populating worlds - and this really gives campaigns flavour. Take the range of snubfighters away and all the planetary battles very quickly all look alike. Dull.... Snore...
Edited by Ghostrider, 14 February 2014 - 06:50 PM.
#7
Posted 14 February 2014 - 08:38 PM
Yeah, I'm also against restricting all snubcraft to carriers. Fighter/bomber raid without carrier support is a basic tactic for rebels, it's not to be discarded. However building snubcrafts without hyperdrive on galaxy map is still a needless imo. So any thoughts on 'buildable' compliments for carriers?
e.g. ISD1 build options
tie fighter/interceptor(if already researched on galaxy map) squadron (max 4) - 100$/sq
tie targeter/bomber (if r.) per conc.missiles sq.(max 2) - 120$/sq or tie bomber (if r.) per p.torpedo sq.(max 2) - 140$/sq
lambda shuttle sq. (max 2) - 150$/sq
delta transport per p.torpedo sq.(max 4) - 200$/sq or delta transport per p.rocket sq.(max 4) - 220$/sq
skipray blastboat/assault gunboat (if r.)per conc.missiles sq.(max 1) - 250$/sq or skipray blastboat/assault gunboat (if r.) per p.torpedo sq.(max 1) - 270$/sq or skipray blastboat/assault gunboat (if r.) per p.rocket sq.(max 1) - 280$/sq
tugboat sq (max 2) - 50$/sq
or something like this
all of them could have a pop value of 1, which would eliminate huge snubcraft swarms ruining and lagging battles
snubcraft "mission costs" are to be payed in every single battle if built, thus spawning compliment snubcraft would be a thing to consider, eliminating the possibility of sending free of cost swarms (who cares if they are shot down, got them for free) against costly starships and snubcraft bought galaxy map
players would also able to buy hyperspace capable squadrons on galaxy map too for normal prices, to operate them separately just like in PR1.2
and there would be no need to cut any unit presently in the game
Edited by megabalta, 14 February 2014 - 08:44 PM.
#8
Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:21 AM
Yeah, that's sorta how I felt too regarding the hyperspace capable fighters.
The only way I can think to easily handle it would be to remove snubcraft without hyperdrives from the build list.
As for the carriers building compliments for a per mission cost, I DO support that idea at least in theory.
Playing PR when stoned is awesome
#9
Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:16 AM
hate to break it to you fake, but its said that some of the TIE interceptors were modified with hyperdrives.
it stands to reason that the same could happen to other TIES.
come to think of it, there were 2-4 hyper-interceptors in the x-wing novels dealing with Zsinji, and nobody was too surprised at their existence, which suggests that such mods were not uncommon, and then the Gand Uglies in Bacta-War were said to have been built off of TIE Bombers and modified with, among other things, hyperdrives.
while im sure not every model works out when modified like this (you'd have to incur penalties : less powerful engines, reduced armaments, etc.figure, if it were a regular Ln, double blasters or 1 laser, and maybe 80 MGLT for speed, etc),
i think the only TIEs that lacked a Hyperdrive entirely were the Ln, Sa, and some of the specialist models (fire control, recon, etc)
also, having fighters being buildable helps because you can augment your defending forces should you get a enemy fleet incoming warning. my current config allows me to build some fighters really quickly as an example, and an extra wing of S3 Y-wings or TIE/In's can do a decent bit of damage
if anything should be changed to the fighters and bombers, i think it should be possibly either the removal of some upgraded models, or making certain upgraded models their own units
examples of these would be the Original TIE Starfighter (pre-Ln) and the XJ-wings, respectively.
some of the prototype units are pointless to have, or in some cases, namely the E-wing Series 2, the upgrades only alter 1 stat, wasting time, credits, and because their XMLs have to take the extra units into account, they become rather bloated, and this might be a source of some of the performance issues this mod has (correct me if im wrong there).
you could get rid of 7 Imp Fighters (Starfighters, Adv x1,2,3,7's, Gt's, and XM-prototypes), and possibly 11 Reb/NR fighters (basically the first model of A, B, K, X, Y (A1, A2, A3), Z 95 (up to the T model) and R41) because of their prototype status, or because they dont bring a lot to the table
and besides, they ARE prototypes. granted you'd have to issue some for field testing, but not en masse.
#10
Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:49 AM
hate to break it to you fake, but its said that some of the TIE interceptors were modified with hyperdrives.
it stands to reason that the same could happen to other TIES.
come to think of it, there were 2-4 hyper-interceptors in the x-wing novels dealing with Zsinji, and nobody was too surprised at their existence,
And they were specefically stated to have below standard maneuverability due to that as well, and were an Admrials personal ship and two flown by bodyguards.
In the later novels in that series, Wraith squadron used that fact to hide the additional speed and maneuverability offered by having standard Interceptors.
As for the Gand curious ships, the modifications were never really elaborated on in detail so it's really unknown the full extent of what occured.
Playing PR when stoned is awesome
#11
Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:48 AM
hate to break it to you fake, but its said that some of the TIE interceptors were modified with hyperdrives.
it stands to reason that the same could happen to other TIES.
come to think of it, there were 2-4 hyper-interceptors in the x-wing novels dealing with Zsinji, and nobody was too surprised at their existence,
And they were specefically stated to have below standard maneuverability due to that as well, and were an Admrials personal ship and two flown by bodyguards.
In the later novels in that series, Wraith squadron used that fact to hide the additional speed and maneuverability offered by having standard Interceptors.
As for the Gand curious ships, the modifications were never really elaborated on in detail so it's really unknown the full extent of what occured.
which PR gets around by assuming that advances in technology that allow a Y-wing to eventually match speeds with a standard TIE/Ln, or an AF5/X-model Headhunter which, despite the design being of a pre-clone wars vintage, allows the old craft to pretty much match a basic TIE/In or TIE/In x2. in a dogfight.
point being is that it is possible. and i never said there wouldnt be drawbacks. although in the case of the Interceptor, remove 2 guns, reduce engine power and maneuverability somewhat, and you basically have a hyperspace capable TIE/Ln which looks better and might have shields. and because the In is a smaller target, its still harder to kill.
same for the Gand craft. though i can assume they added a nav-comp and additional life support equipment to make the journey from the Gand homeworld to Yag'Duhl with only a few stops. as a brief aside, i wonder what would happen if you were to swap out the engine mods in the TIE/Sa and drop in some TIE/In engines
Reply to this topic
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users