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[Aliens Comeback] Remembering Projects


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#21 Martinoz

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:46 PM

If he uses ideas or content from your mod, tell him to take it down.  Other than that, he's just trying to work here.  Because even if he does steal crap, his mod is going to fail.  Simple as that.

If he uses all the content, even ripping names/titles/subfactions without adding his own original content then it's not his work in even a single % -  using someone's idea at full extent without permission is forbidden by law in every country. And Speeder as the MO 3.0 main author has got the right to take appropriate measures like requesting to remove mod from ModDB or any other place.


Edited by Martinoz, 17 February 2014 - 09:50 PM.

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#22 mevitar

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:08 PM

He's not using MO assets per se (so far all of what i see is public stuff), but instead blatantly copies everything MO has. He even took MO description and put it to his own mod, and calls it Mental Omega Aliens Comeback (just look at his "Projects"). :huh:

Actually, i think the Yuri logo he uses is from Mental Omega (the one with the purple background, pretty sure it's from the Irkalla video, including the background...).
 

using someone's idea at full extent without permission is forbidden by law in every country

Let's not jump to the other side of the spectrum here, okay? Taking down a blatant copycat is one thing, but getting law involved in this is another (and just mentioning "forbidden by law" reminds me too much of what Blizzard is doing).

Edited by mevitar, 17 February 2014 - 10:11 PM.

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#23 Pasidon

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:21 PM

MO uses assets from Red Alert 2.  But it can get away with it since it's free fan-made content..  If we're talking law, Mod can do whatever the heck he wants with his project, as long as he doesn't steal copy written assets that are enforced by the owners, or sell copies of his mod with assets that aren't 100% his.  Motor Rock had this issue since it stole assets from Sega and actually sold copies, and that game has actually been banned from being sold.  

 

Banning him is a stupid idea since he won't stop ripping off MO if we do that.  Now if we work with Mod here, we can get him to remove his obvious ripped content and get this project to something other than a MO clone.  


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#24 Mathijs

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:59 PM

Wrong, Pas. We as a community do not condone members/mods who rip content from our hosted mods without permission. Law has nothing to do with it.

 

If you want to get technical stupid and compare it to MO using Red Alert 2 assets, then I would say the owners of the franchise have had ample time and opportunity to shut mods down. The fact they haven't (and even released mod SDKs for later games) shows that they support it.

 

Speeder obviously does *not* support his ideas/work being used by Be7AMod, and therefore it needs to be taken out.

 

If this does not happen within whatever time period Speeder wants to set, I will ban Be7AMod for ripping Mental Omega without permission. This is a creative community, and we cannot tolerate this kind of thing. Obviously he can (and will) just take his shit elsewhere (ModDB, where I am pretty sure Speeder can file a complaint), but at least we are not offering him a stage here.


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#25 Pasidon

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:36 PM

I'm sorry... are there actually any rules anywhere on these forums against this?  We can refuse hosting and ban for any reasons we want, but that's the very definition of an uncivil community if we don't follow a certain agenda of accessible rules.  Unless he was forced to agree to terms of service when he was signing up that strictly forbids stealing ideas or content from local users, or even if there are rules against it in the forums or C&C guild, we are extremely unreasonable to punish him in anyway.  

 

There's nothing here about it, and that's one of the only places where we even have rules posted that the community has access to.

 

He's barely old enough to understand what he's doing wrong, and lives in a country that barely understand what the internet is, let alone how to behave on the internet. In terms of posting content especially.  If we want to avoid crap like this in the future, then we really need a physical list of guidelines that users need to read and agree to before they join that says something about using local content.  Or at least something.  Right now, he's actually doing nothing legally wrong, it's just uncivil of him.  And I strongly hate people being banned for literally breaking no rules.  It's just a case of Speeder not wanting the guy using his stuff.  I don't like it either, but a ban is asinine.  Even us renigging on hosting is unfair, but we really need some accessible rules against this crap for the future.


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#26 Gen.Kenobi

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:24 AM

Maybe I missed something around here...

Who's in charge of CnC Guild? Can someone answer me please? Last time I checked was Nighthawk, but I might be completely wrong.

 

@ALLSTAFF: is this the right place to discuss this?

 

Be7AMod is a FAN of MO. He has NO intention at all to copy that mod. He said himself that he loves Speeder and his mod would be some sorta of tribute to the creators of MO. I seriously can't understand how people can be pissed off by someone who isn't actually doing anything wrong other than trying to learn how to mod and do a tribute to a mod he loves. Or now there's a rule around here that we can't create mods of mods? Then, we modders, are nothing but the same as the company we hate so much (EA).

 

Revora is a creative community. The moment we stop supporting any kind of creative project is the moment we lose the purpose to exist.  That being said, from what I've been watching here, and from what I've seen in the boards of these forums, specially CnCGuild and T3A, is with great sorrow that I can say that Revora is dead. Long live to Revora.


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#27 Be7AMod

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:31 AM

Quote: He said himself that he loves Speeder [from Gen.Kenobi]

 

yes really i am really want to Visite Speeder's House. because to protect he for [THE END OF THE WORLD!] but there is no thing that can destroy the EARTH RIGHT NOW!! HEY!!! :D



#28 Pasidon

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:39 AM

Erm... well... yea.  Yea.  Good.  Yea.  ...  Good.

 

Mod, do you even know what's going on?


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#29 Banshee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:40 AM

Pasidon, our policies related to ripping resources are located at this topic:

http://forums.revora...-mapscodingetc/

 

Finally anyone caught doing an rip intended for public release will result in an automatic ban, no warnings, zero tolerance.

 

We are actually being too much nice with Be7AMod at this topic.


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#30 Pasidon

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:08 AM

The topic is so pushed away, I didn't even find it when trying to look for it.  You expect people to know our rules and punishments when they're more of an Easter egg hunt than a list of enforcements?  I'm glad this topic came up, because we seriously need to sort out these rules of ours.  Apparently they're blasted out all around the forums, and I know I have zero say around here, but that's really unacceptable when we start threatening to ban people for not knowing them.


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#31 Banshee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

There is a reason why he was warned several times already, so he could be aware of this rule and how Revora does not condone ripping. We are not monsters. We do understand that some people don't know how people hate rippers and why people care about it. We don't expect everyone to read the rules here, but if they violate it, they have to be warned and change their attitude. The warning for Be7AMod was given, but, apparently he doesn't care nor changes his attitude.


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#32 Pasidon

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:58 AM

He's not even hosted here.  Why is he being warned on a project we don't even support or house?


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#33 Banshee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:48 AM

It's not a matter of being hosted or not. If he is here, he has to abide by our rules. If you have an account in a forum, you need to follow its rules.

 

If he has an account here or post here and have a public project that rips other community projects (in this case, the rippped project, Mental Omega, is hosted here), he must be informed that his attitude (using other mod assets/intelectual properties for public projects without the authorization from the authors of these assets/intelectual properties) is not tolerated here and it needs to be changed urgently, if he wants to participate of this community.

 

If his mod was private, therefore, not available in the internet nor announced as public, it wouldn't be a problem. When you create a ModDB profile about a mod, that mod is automatically considered a public mod.

 

In short, if he removes every reference of Mental Omega in his project and the voxels/SHPs/concepts/backgrounds/whatever he uses from Mental Omega, he will be ok here and there will be no reason for banning him. He was informed about that many times and he refuses to remove references of Mental Omega from his project.


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#34 Pasidon

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:12 AM

Probably because he doesn't understand.  But I still don't see why a ban is necessary at all.  A ban is something put into place when an individual is harmful or degrading to a community, in terms of behavior or physical activity done on forum.  He isn't damaging the forums, and he doesn't poses a toxic personality that causes him to verbally attack or degrade other members.  In fact, he seems quite pleasant for his age.  He is making a project in his own free time, and whether he's stealing everything in it or not is none of our business at all if we're not hosting him.  Currently, that's equally useless to claim as what you're claiming, Banshee.  Whether or not he has the right to post content on here that may or may not be stolen is something none of us can have a direct punishment for.  Why?  Because we don't have any darn rules.  That one topic posted by someone with no actual administrative authority that's been pushed away in a section that B-Mod hasn't even posted a topic in isn't corn enough to be enforced on B-Mod at all. 

 

What he does in his own time is his own business, if it's not effecting our business.  And it's not our business at all.  It might be for the MO staff, but that's their debate to settle with him.  He's just posting questions and talking.  No actual content what-so-ever.  I see no reason to revoke him being a member at all.  It's bull crap elitism towards B-Mod, and I will defend him being here until he actually becomes socially intolerable.  


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#35 Banshee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:45 AM

His english speaking skills might be limited (like mine), as his age is, but he is not stupid. He is able to understand most of the words we are writing here. Also, if he doesn't understand something, he is perfectly able to use Google Translator:

 

http://translate.google.com

 

And his attitude is damaging Mental Omega, which is an important project hosted by our forums, regardless if we host him or not. MO is the most active project from CnC Guild and it helps to provide visitors to the rest of the mods and other CnC Guild hosted mods. Therefore it does affect our business, Pasidon.

 

And there is no elitism here. The problem is not the quality of his mod nor the reputation of his modding skills. It is his attitude, being dishonest with Mental Omega, that must be changed and, unfortunately, Pasidon, your attitude is not helping him to change.

 

Because we don't have any darn rules.

 

Are you blind? The topic I've linked is pinned for a reason. We don't pin every topic in this forum.


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#36 Pasidon

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:32 AM

Yea.  Saw it.  You can pin it to Winston Churchill's coffin, but that still doesn't give it any worth to this at all.  It's a set of rules pinned in an isolated section of the forums, meaning it applies to that section of the forums.  If that's not true, then it should be elsewhere.  But when I take a look at the forum hub, I see no button that directs me to a set of rules.  Or a section dedicated to listing rules that can be seen from the hub.  As a first impression, and 7 years later, I still don't have any set of rules to go by other than common sense.  This is apparently not a common sense issue.

 

In any case, his attitude has damaged nothing.   He's been nothing but a nice guy, and a huge MO fan-boy.  That's not something negative in any sense... when it comes to being a fan-boy of one of our projects, anyway. We're still getting hits with B-Mod around, if not more since he's referencing MO more than King Tut himself.  If anything, he's probably gotten MO extra hits from other Egyptians.  Algerian Major stole assets from us as well, but we're not doing anything about him.  Loads of people here have stolen assents.  And we're not hosting a single one of them.  That's the justice here; not denying access to our community because of it. You can ban him, but I'll debate the action and demand us to revise any rule or future rules regarding it and be 100% justified in doing so.  Because if you are legitimately concerned about B-Mod negating traffic to MO, barring him from the community does not solve that issue.  If there would be any result, it would be negative towards our forum, even if it's slight. At least with him here, we have a better chance of control his work.  

 

And a huge issue: he probably is using that translator.  It's awful.  I tried using it for my German homework.  It was wrong almost every time, unless I was using a very generic sentence like, "What way to the bus station?" or "I am hungry."


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#37 Graion Dilach

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:48 PM

Finally most of the outsiders realized why are we against Be7Amod.

Yes, it's one thing putting a homage here or there (hell, nothing's better than well-made references), but this is far over a tribute. He is, along with zlixine, copy-pasting everything which can be copypasted and it's not about creativity. I'm fairly certain the sole reason this guy isn't using made-for-MO stuff is due to asset-locking. Pasidon, I already pointed you to check it out. He even used MO flags with their respective descriptions, only inserting aliens here and there. Why are you defending him is beyond me.

His English is better than Google translator spits out so that excuse is backfiring.

On another note, I haven't seen Nighthawk for a while. I do know Bansh is around, thought he's a de facto leader atm.

Can we just kick the guy out and move on instead of going through all this?
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#38 Banshee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:19 PM

It's a set of rules pinned in an isolated section of the forums, meaning it applies to that section of the forums.  If that's not true, then it should be elsewhere.

 

We don't have a forum specifically for rules or something more centralized for it. And we cannot pin this kind of post on news forums, otherwise it wouldn't disappear from Revora.net and CnCGuild.net, so, I'm sorry to say, but your logic is flawed here.

 

And I repeat, this rule transcends communities.

 

Actually, this rule is in our forum guidelines written in the following way:

 

 

 

TRUTH - Do not lie. Do not claim other people's work or ideas as your own.

 

 

 

As a first impression, and 7 years later, I still don't have any set of rules to go by other than common sense. This is apparently not a common sense issue.

 

Wrong again. It is a common sense issue, specially for western societies. If someone does this kind of thing with your business, your first reaction is to contact them to stop and then sue them.

 

Regarding the rest of your post, Graion Dilach has already answered what I was going to say.


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#39 Graion Dilach

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:22 PM

Just a small note: Be7amod claims himself as a Guildee hostee already on ModDB, look at his 'mod''s webpage.

 

Also GenKen, I don't see C&CGuild being dead. There's still many active projects within the guild (MO, RR are going nicely, DD, PP, Amnesia and I think RS with their constant struggle and maybe AS will soon get into steamroll stage, I'd be glad if such could happen, but first I oughta find someone who can throw me up something worthwhile as a web page).. while there aren't project with the newer engines I don't feel Guild dead.

 

I don't mention T3A because I think the online possibility will be more than enough to keep it up ultimately. CnCNet atm has 120-150 RA1 players constantly, while there were only 20-30 there 2 years ago or so.


Edited by Graion Dilach, 18 February 2014 - 04:23 PM.

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#40 Banshee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:13 PM

He has added that 'webpage' a couple of days ago. Considering that it will not be created, he'll eventually remove it.


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