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#1 johnchm.10

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:10 PM

these are just my random musings on random ships as I see fit

 

just because this is my rant doesnt mean others cant comment, so by all means, raise your voices, even if you wish me to do a different ship

 

I shall start with one of the more versatile units in the mod: the Dominator-class Star Destroyer

basically a Victory-2 combined with an Immobilizer 418 in terms of firepower, defenses, maneuverability in real and hyperspace, likely troop capacity, etc....

 

about a year ago, i made a comment on another thread about the hyper-speed of the thing being rather fast for a ship that size, to which i was told that the ship was based off the ISD2, which has a stronger reactor. despite Wookie's claims to the contrary, the ISD2 seems like a more likely option, at least with regards to its powerplant. granted the Dominator only has half as many guns, the 'older-style' gravity wells were very energy hungry. the more powerful reactor of the ISD2 would help out tremendously.

 

even with all these added systems, the Dominator can comfortably defeat anything up-to and including a Recusant 

 

the Dom-3 upgrade i think is a hybrid of the improved Grav wells of the I-418A, the power plant of an ISD-2, and a weapons fit roughly analogous to the ISD1.

 

here, thanks to her generally more advanced Air-wing, a Dom-3 or 4 could be matched against an ISD-1 and have a decent chance of surviving an encounter. and maybe even go up against an ISD2 and fight it to a draw, especially if its a Dom-4

 



#2 a.fake.name

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:26 AM

Hmm, I haven't played much with the Dom in a while.... I may have to build one in a skirmish match tonight.


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#3 megabalta

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:52 PM

So what's up with Assault frigate mk2? Seems like it's disliked by most, but I think it's a nice model, and it could be a versatile heavy cruiser for the rebels.



#4 a.fake.name

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:30 PM

So what's up with Assault frigate mk2? Seems like it's disliked by most, but I think it's a nice model, and it could be a versatile heavy cruiser for the rebels.

 

 

It has no stats to KEEP it in the game, as far as I know.

All of the other ships are vessels that've had their loadout and stats disclosed, where this ship is only in the unmodded game, and all we know there is it had two turbolasers and two lasers.

 


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#5 megabalta

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 06:44 PM

Length

700 meters[1]

Hyperdrive rating
  • Class 2.0[4]
  • Class 12.0 (Backup)[4]
Shielding

Equipped[4]

Armament Complement

Gamma-class assault shuttle (1)[4]

Crew

Under 5,000[4]

Passengers

100 (troops)[4]

Cargo capacity

7,500 metric tons[4]

Consumables

1.5 years[4]

 

Since armament matches that of the mk1, but mk2 lacks the complement of 2 fighter squadrons I think they've gone for a better shielding and hull armor.



#6 johnchm.10

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

I think the main issue is the crappy model used. A modification or variant of the Assault Frigate isn't necessarily a bad one, as it seems kinda like an A-wing, in that it's a modification of the venerable Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruiser, but was handmade and prone to have a lot of variations from ship to ship, and the mark 2 A-wing was the mass production model, but with some additional features like the swiveling guns and likely a lower cost. Anyway, a similar situation may exist with the Assault Frigate

#7 megabalta

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:46 PM

How about a retextured model? I don't know why but I just like this shippy. I know it was invented by the game creators, so it's semicanon, but the mod could honor them by having this ship.



#8 a.fake.name

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:41 AM

Honestly, they don't really deserve much honor considering the way they halfassed the game.

I am ambivilent at best towards the ship, on one hand it fits an early role for the rebels, on the other hand it's design makes no sense and has no lineage.

I think if the model were redone, and it were done as a Nebulon-B frigate that had been rebuilt to be heavier (at the cost of compliment) it would work a lot better.

 

That said, I think the bulk cruiser would be a better ship to have instead as it comes in variants and was used by all sides.


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#9 Kitkun

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:05 AM

The Assault Frigate Mk 2's stats were literally a copy and paste of the Mk 1. Though the two fighter squadrons Wook shows for the Mk 1 are new since that happened. (As near as I can guess from the page, that's from the Wii version of Force Unleashed 2 presenting it as the Salvation.)

 

Really, the ship makes no sense in it's description, as the model bares no relation whatsoever to a Dreadnaught nor does it make sense to completely rebuild a ship for no gain.

Plus the Dreadnaught is overused for how it's described as being quite old by the time of the Clone Wars.

 

Some musings of my own:

  • Quad-lasers may be anti-fighter weapons, but don't underestimate them. Their rate of fire makes for massive damage output; a couple of Lancers protected by a meatshield can tear down a capital's shields at an impressive rate.
  • Y-Wings don't ever gain the maneuverability to truly combat fighters, but once they gain turreted ion cannons, they make for incredible support for your own fighters. The ions wipe out shields and momentarily stop the enemy fighters, allowing your own fighters to maneuver in for the kill.
  • TIE Fighters are so weak that they're unreliable for fighting off enemy starfighters unless in such numbers that even the Empire has a hard time achieving them. They are, however, excellent for cheaply stalling enemy starfighters while you bring in the actual starfighter killers.
  • ISD 1s are slow, short-ranged brawlers that are overall mediocre. ISD 2s are competent with a nasty long-ranged bite. ISD 3s are fearsome ship to ship combatants. ISD 4s are extremely well-rounded and the most dangerous ships on the battlefield short of a dreadnought.

Edited by Kitkun, 25 February 2014 - 04:30 AM.

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#10 skie9173

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:19 AM

I've mentioned before that one of my favorite tactics is sending my upgraded Y-wings in first, then letting A/X-wings follow and watching all the enemy fighters go "pop".


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#11 a.fake.name

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:02 PM

 

The Assault Frigate Mk 2's stats were literally a copy and paste of the Mk 1. Though the two fighter squadrons Wook shows for the Mk 1 are new since that happened. (As near as I can guess from the page, that's from the Wii version of Force Unleashed 2 presenting it as the Salvation.)

 

Really, the ship makes no sense in it's description, as the model bares no relation whatsoever to a Dreadnaught nor does it make sense to completely rebuild a ship for no gain.

Plus the Dreadnaught is overused for how it's described as being quite old by the time of the Clone Wars.

 

Some musings of my own:

  • Quad-lasers may be anti-fighter weapons, but don't underestimate them. Their rate of fire makes for massive damage output; a couple of Lancers protected by a meatshield can tear down a capital's shields at an impressive rate.
  • Y-Wings don't ever gain the maneuverability to truly combat fighters, but once they gain turreted ion cannons, they make for incredible support for your own fighters. The ions wipe out shields and momentarily stop the enemy fighters, allowing your own fighters to maneuver in for the kill.
  • TIE Fighters are so weak that they're unreliable for fighting off enemy starfighters unless in such numbers that even the Empire has a hard time achieving them. They are, however, excellent for cheaply stalling enemy starfighters while you bring in the actual starfighter killers.
  • ISD 1s are slow, short-ranged brawlers that are overall mediocre. ISD 2s are competent with a nasty long-ranged bite. ISD 3s are fearsome ship to ship combatants. ISD 4s are extremely well-rounded and the most dangerous ships on the battlefield short of a dreadnought.

 

 

 

I've mentioned before that one of my favorite tactics is sending my upgraded Y-wings in first, then letting A/X-wings follow and watching all the enemy fighters go "pop".

I pretty much agree with both of you
Kitkun, as for the mk2, I think those are exellent reasons to NOT return it to the game.
Better to invest the effort in another ship (such as the Nebulon-B2, bulk cruiser, etc)

Personally, when playing Empire, I prefer a wave of my newest model skipray blastboats.
10 squads can take almost any planets orbit on their own, and if you leave them as the garrison you end up basically spending 10k per planet early on, then much less as you secure more space (IE: no direct routes to hostile worlds) and can return most of each group to combat (I usually leave 3 squads per secure world).

The key for skiprays of course is that with just a few upgrades they get missiles, torpedoes, sensor jammer, and ion cannon, which makes them an anti-everything vessel.

 

For the Rebels, I'll sometimes go and upgrade the R-41 a few times, as ions and missiles are a great combo, and I often pause and micromanage during battles, directing the R-41's against shuttles and other targets they excel against.

Oh and Kit, as for the ISD-I being a short ranged brawler, it's light turbolasers DO however make it very effective against shuttles and other smaller craft, as I've noticed that it will make short work of such craft.
Mixing two ISD-I's with an ISD-II and (once researched) an Immobilizer cruiser can be quite effective, as the ISD-II will easily kill practically anything of size at range, and the ISD-I escorts can escort from ahead, screaning the ISD-II while giving it extra LOS for targeting with it's main battery, and once you get an Immobilizer it's quad laser  armament (actually, didn't they have at least some turbos and ions.... I seem to recall them having ions in the rogue squadron novels..) makes it basically a perfect compliment to the fighter screen.


Now, if you play Chih's mod (which seems to be halfway standard practice these days), the light turbos of the ISD-I become much less of an issue and the ship gets where it should have been I think, as it's still mediocre when challenged on equal terms.

Actually, another musing on the ISD-I... allow it to be upgraded seprately from the ISD-II series, allowing the player to have ISD-I's with improved compliments.
Plus then the player wouldn't feel the need to spam a lot of ISD-Is to have as a planet fleets flagship and filler/support on attack fleets


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#12 skie9173

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:30 PM

I have to say as a Alliance/NR player I hardly use Mon Cal designs. I find their firepower to population ratio unfavorable.

I tend to use fighter raids to wear my enemy down/scout before sending my main fleets in. I use all Alliance fighter minus B-Wing. Z95s make excellent fodder/interceptors once they get Missles but before A-wings. Starchasers are a filler that is nice for its mixed armerment but they are my second least used fighter.

My larger ships tend to be Mauraders and Assualt Frigates. Mauraders at higher levels are VERY cost effective in my opinion, with 3 or 4 being able to tie up and take out much larger ships. Nothing pleases me more in PR than a tatical Assualt Frigate strike. Drop them out of hyperspace on top of an enemy fighter swarm or similar sized vessel and they devestate most targets. They are also small enough that they can sometimes microed around large vessel's fire arcs.
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#13 a.fake.name

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:58 PM

I agree somewhat on the whole Mon Cal ship point, but I still like to upgrade and build them as they provide a free compliment, of course I also use Chih's mod so the compliments are better.

One of my main NR strategies is to get the MC-40 upgraded to it's a or b refit quickly, then pump out at least two dozen.
Those ships get reinforced by fighter production, and allow limited projection of force as well as a half decent defense as anything fast enough to get to the ship past the bombers is small enough for the ship to usually deal with.

 

As for the heavier mon cal designs... you basically choose between heavy turbos or massed double turbo and turboion cannons.
Personally I think the loadouts of the two ships should be somewhat merged, and give both at least several heavy turbos and heavy turbo ions.
 


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#14 skie9173

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:33 PM

I Think part of it is that the Mon Cal ships don't have proper rigging or bones if I remember correctly? The way their projectiles occur in game doesn't give them proper justice.

It will be interesting to see how my tactics change, if at all, without hero Capitals, and with Galatic Ship population costs in the next version, if that is still in.

I've never used Battleships/Dreadnaughts much in the past separately from heroes. I think I will end up using them more now. Of what I used, Bulwark-class seems most effective, and Praetor least. My fighters eat Praetors for breakfast as the Alliance.
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#15 johnchm.10

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:53 PM

 

The Assault Frigate Mk 2's stats were literally a copy and paste of the Mk 1. Though the two fighter squadrons Wook shows for the Mk 1 are new since that happened. (As near as I can guess from the page, that's from the Wii version of Force Unleashed 2 presenting it as the Salvation.)

 

Really, the ship makes no sense in it's description, as the model bares no relation whatsoever to a Dreadnaught nor does it make sense to completely rebuild a ship for no gain.

Plus the Dreadnaught is overused for how it's described as being quite old by the time of the Clone Wars.

 

Some musings of my own:

  • Quad-lasers may be anti-fighter weapons, but don't underestimate them. Their rate of fire makes for massive damage output; a couple of Lancers protected by a meatshield can tear down a capital's shields at an impressive rate.
  • Y-Wings don't ever gain the maneuverability to truly combat fighters, but once they gain turreted ion cannons, they make for incredible support for your own fighters. The ions wipe out shields and momentarily stop the enemy fighters, allowing your own fighters to maneuver in for the kill.
  • TIE Fighters are so weak that they're unreliable for fighting off enemy starfighters unless in such numbers that even the Empire has a hard time achieving them. They are, however, excellent for cheaply stalling enemy starfighters while you bring in the actual starfighter killers.
  • ISD 1s are slow, short-ranged brawlers that are overall mediocre. ISD 2s are competent with a nasty long-ranged bite. ISD 3s are fearsome ship to ship combatants. ISD 4s are extremely well-rounded and the most dangerous ships on the battlefield short of a dreadnought.

 

The DHC is a good design and even the Mark 1 is useful.

and irl, the US Navy held on to Iowa-class Battleships from WW2 to a little bit after the Gulf War, a period of about 50 or so years. hell, the B52 has flown in one form or another for literally 60 years
 

i hate to say it, but there was a panel of the HttE comic where the Assault Frigate had some passing similarities to the Abomination 

 

lol. ive used lancers like that before.

 

once you get S5 Y-wings, you're good to go. i honestly wish we could give their guns an upgrade or two in addition to the Ions they have

 

TIE/IN FTW. the only things the Ln can take on are EARLY Z95s and Y-wings, as well as maybe some of the small and lightly armed transports or unarmed and possibly un-shielded freighters. and even there, the IN outclasses them.

 

I find that sometimes, a single ISD-2 with 8 Lancers flying close enough to envelop the ISD in Quads is enough for many engagements



#16 johnchm.10

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:58 PM

I Think part of it is that the Mon Cal ships don't have proper rigging or bones if I remember correctly? The way their projectiles occur in game doesn't give them proper justice.

It will be interesting to see how my tactics change, if at all, without hero Capitals, and with Galatic Ship population costs in the next version, if that is still in.

I've never used Battleships/Dreadnaughts much in the past separately from heroes. I think I will end up using them more now. Of what I used, Bulwark-class seems most effective, and Praetor least. My fighters eat Praetors for breakfast as the Alliance.

i've found that an ISD4 can take on a Praetor-1 and still have a decent chance of winning, especially with my mods to the compliments. its really all about how you employ the ships.

 

at any rate, i must run to class, so ill give you a new one. the Tector



#17 skie9173

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:08 PM

Praetors are easy to kite and dodge around with smaller vessels. Their firing arc is so forward focus they really suffer against nimbler foes. But, this is how I feel it should be personally.
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#18 a.fake.name

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 08:49 PM

I quite like the Tector, John.

The lack of a compliment makes picking and choosing which snubcraft I will have quite fun, too.


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#19 Kitkun

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:14 PM

While I'm fine with the Dreadnaught being used, it's more that it's so common compared to other ships, sort of like how the rebels have so many Mon Cal capital ships and so few others. Especially for a design nearing a century in age.

 

Anyways...

  • A squadron of Carracks makes an excellent second line, as their main battery can add plenty of fire support to the main line, while they have enough durability to stand harassment from snubcraft that make it through the front.
  • CR90s are in no way fit for large battles. With vulnerability to tractor beams and a split armament of non-dual purpose weapons, it adds little in the way of fire power and is easily destroyed. Primarily useful for sacrificial scouting.
  • DP20s, on the other hand, have an extremely impressive array of fire power for their size, and are devestating to fighters while still quite capable against larger ships. The star of the show being the Concussion Missiles with the Quad Lasers as backup. The Turbolasers are mostly for decoration, though.
  • A pair of Assault Frigate Mark 1s are quite capable of acting independantly, and can handle almost anything short of Golans or multiple capital ships. Particularly their final upgrade, which adds a lot of anti-capital firepower.
  • CC-9600s are brutally powerful for their small size, and can cost-efficiently destroy anything bigger than a transport. Even including a Sovereign so long as you keep them in them out of the field of fire of the secondary guns.

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#20 johnchm.10

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:49 AM

maybe it was because they were so common that they were used. the Z-95 was used for a long time. as was the Y-wing, the CR-series, the YT series, etc. and apparently the Hammerheads used in KOTOR were used for a very long time as well. 

there was a treaty that pretty much meant that the Dreadnought was going to be the largest ship any of the signatories could build. over time, odds are that more parties gained the ability to either build or buy the ship.

 

I like the Carrack. the only change i make to it is giving it a full squad of fighters. which it can kinda manage if its used as a base to launch patrolling fighters out of, and you just cycle fighters through the docking ports

 

CR90s are mainly good at convoy raiding i feel, and maybe convoy escort.

 

DP's are almost too powerful

 

A-frigs are one of my favorites. 2 or 3 mark 2 or 3s can really make a mean fighting force

 

my only gripes with the 96 are its size and lack of secondary armaments. id willingly trade some of the turbos for AA guns

 

in case you hadn't noticed, i like when ships are versatile 





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