66 replies to this topic

[a.fake.name]

 

• A pair of Assault Frigate Mark 1s

 

 

 

There is no 'mark 1' assault frigate.
The Rebel 'Assault Frigate' is the Doodana class assault frigate, and a rebuild of old dreadnought class hulls.

The Mk2 Assault frigate has ZERO connection, and is a result of shitty dev work by the people that made the game.

[skie9173]

I think that they were just referring to upgrade level actually

[Kitkun]

I like the Carrack. the only change i make to it is giving it a full squad of fighters. which it can kinda manage if its used as a base to launch patrolling fighters out of, and you just cycle fighters through the docking ports

 

DP's are almost too powerful

 

Iirc, Carracks had no internal docking bay, just an external holding rack, hence the tiny complement. And a sci-fi author with an actual sense of scale.

 

I actually nerfed the DP20 significantly in my copy by changing a number of the weapons into lighter versions.

 

And I was referring to the Dodonna class, just using Mk 1 for clarity.

[a.fake.name]

Ah ok, that's another reason to not revist the stock Mk2 model
Too much confusion.

[megabalta]

Argh. I'm going to mod it to a unique pirate faction ship named Effuoll commandeered by Bettyboop Shoewalker, and conquer the galaxy with it cantina by cantina.

Edited by megabalta, 26 February 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[a.fake.name]

To be honest, a pirate faction (if done right) could be quite fun.

Of course by 'done right', I mean have it NOT done like in FOC.

[megabalta]

You mean not farting the galaxy full of mustard gas? But it's like an AdamSandler movie in set in space. How could you not enjoy it?

[a.fake.name]

Well one of the newer Sandler movies maybe.

Back in the day his shit was comic gold.

But yeah, the mustard gas in space was retarded.
I mean the mechanichic made SOME sense...... but it was WAY too easy to abuse.

I did like how different worlds would have different corruption missions however, if THAT mechanichic could be retooled, it could make for awesome rebel and imp intel/commando gameplay, or even the reintroduction of a pirate faction done right.

[johnchm.10]

Here's one. The X-wing is actually under armed in terms of missile capacity. It seems that you could mount between 2 and 6 additional missiles per wing kinda like how it is on real world aircraft. This works primarily on the X-wing,B-wing, and E-wing because of their longer wings compared to the Y-wing and A-wing. We know the X-wing has provisions for at least one external fuel tank. A tank hard point requires a bit more work than a strictly weapons hard point. For a weapons point, all you'd need would be the mounting hardware, a data link to the ship's computer, and some ignition circuitry. Obviously this would affect performance in an atmosphere, and the sheer number of missiles makes for a hazardous proposition, but for a dozen fighters to have literally 360 torpedoes to fire in a short period of time would definitely have its uses.

[a.fake.name]

So torpedo sphere snubcraft ?

Yeah... no.
It'd make more sense to just have all snubcraft able to be used on the ground instead of just the cloud car and T-47.

[johnchm.10]

Why not? We've already established that there are different yields for torpedoes. These could be lighter variants best suited against ground vehicles. They wouldn't have to be full power ones. They could be plex's. You could easily strap on 4 of them to an X-wing on the wings and slave the fire control systems to the ship, and have the actual firing done on a special panel or even controlled by the Droid. It's technically feasible, given that they can clone people and everything else. Instant ground attack craft.

No argument there.

[a.fake.name]

Except the X-Wing wasn't designed for it.

The K-Wing had exterior ordinance hard points because that's how it was designed and built, not so for the X-Wing.

In the X-Wing novels the external fuel tank alone was mentioned to cause significant drag, having a bunch of extra stuff strapped to the wings (which admittedly only serve to stabilize the craft in atmosphere more than any purpose as an actual flight surface) would do great harm to it's manuverbility, and quite likely cause damage to the airframe which was not desgned for that extra weight and drag.

Basically, the pilot banks too hard, and an s-foil gets ripped off.

Or to put it another way: Why not just strap torpedoes to the solar panels of the TIE Fighter.

 

edit:

To be more clear, and use real world analogies:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hard_point

Note the top picture in the page is an A-10 Warthog.
It has all those hard points by virtue of the crafts frame being bult to support all of the weight w/o centrifugal force ripping the wings off. (and yes I know the A-10 is really just a gun with an airframe designed around it, but the point is relevant I believe).

Now imagine slapping the same ordinance onto a craft not designed for it.
Sure it may be doable to bolt the attachments onto the craft, but at the same time it doesn't mean the craft is designed for it, kinda like how the F-14 never had anything mounted on it's wings........ because they were not designed for it (that and swept wing).

 

Edited by a.fake.name, 02 March 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[skie9173]

Anyone have any thoughts on the Recusant-class?

Personally I rarely use them, and I think I might do so unjustly. They have a nice range of weaponry and can be sorta versatile but mainly focused on taking down smaller craft. They just don't seem pop cap efficient for that to me. Not are they durable enough to engage larger threats.

[SpardaSon21]

In Skirmish at least, the Recusants have a place defending your stations because they have the experimental and advanced turbolasers for artillery support, plus a decent set of heavy turbos, and their anti-fighter defenses are murderous against the AI fighter swarms.

[a.fake.name]

In Skirmish at least, the Recusants have a place defending your stations because they have the experimental and advanced turbolasers for artillery support, plus a decent set of heavy turbos, and their anti-fighter defenses are murderous against the AI fighter swarms.

They're a glass cannon in essence, and considering that the CIS's droid forces were largely disposable that makes sense.

Personally I've always found them WAY too expenseve to use in skirmish, and prefer to just get some IPV system patrol craft and set them within the repair range of my golan, macro them into a group (usually 8, with 9 and 0 being my factory/golan), and turn them to point at enemy fighter swarms.
Their weapons and conc missiles will take down fighter swarms quicker than you'd think.

[johnchm.10]

the Rec strikes me as an anti-piracy craft.with her load-out.

 

we've established that she can be devastating against transports and fighters with her secondary armaments, and her heavy guns seem quite capable of taking on Corvettes and Frigates, which were likely the most powerful craft most pirate groups at the time could get their hands on. 

 

in mod, she can outpace many capital ships, so assuming that is the case in-universe, maintaining a blockade or running down fleeing pirate forces seems possible, especially if you take into consideration her long-range Turbolaser. in theory, the ship could dump her shield generation power into engines to chase down fleeing ships so that her other forward mounted guns could be brought into range. obviously there is no evidence of this happening so i won't recommend that capability being brought into the mod, but it seems like it might be used in such a manner.

 

her fighter compliment of 240 Droid Starfighters (In-Universe) could outnumber and overwhelm most if not all pirate forces that could be mustered against the ship, should it need the extra firepower against fighters or in general.

 

her 40,000 battle droids, while not skilled (assuming B-1 model), could be used for boarding actions against enemy ships or bases if you wanted the target taken (semi)intact, although her lack of Ion Cannons makes a perfect capture with no damage nearly impossible

 

using PR math, 960 Light Lasers translates into 480 Lasers, which translates into 240 Heavy Lasers, which turns into 120 Light Turbolasers, which translates into 60 Turbolasers, which translates into 30 Heavy Turbolasers in terms of raw power. given that, you'd probably have to have a dozen or so Lancers to counter that, and most of them would probably be severely damaged if not destroyed.

 

it says that the ship was based on plans stolen from the Mon Calamari. as described in HttE, the Mon Cal's were the bane of smugglers. this ship or others like her might have been the reason why.

[a.fake.name]

I thought the Mon Cal's just disliked smuggling in general, which lead to enforcement being stringent, supported by exellent Mon Cal ship designs as well as a general inability to easily hide on Mon Cal for the average smuggler.

Plus I'm sure smugglers also brought in items which the Quarren used in quarrels with the Mon Cal's.

At least that's the impression I've always got.

[ashiruni]

 

While I'm fine with the Dreadnaught being used, it's more that it's so common compared to other ships, sort of like how the rebels have so many Mon Cal capital ships and so few others. Especially for a design nearing a century in age.

 

 

Actually, by the time of the GCW, the dreadnought heavy cruiser design was bloody ancient. I think it'd been implied as having around for roughly several hundred years in various forms, tho the 'modern' variant was much more recent. Note that the dreadnought wiki page (linky) says it's been around for at least 80 years before the clone wars, rather than giving a reasonable design date. That's part of the problem tho. With more than a hundred years of that design being the most awesome design around, how many do you think they made? Rule of thumb: Most sector fleets (and the GR has 1,000 sectors) will have one or two heavy capital vessels and then fifty frigates/cruisers for patrol duty. That right there implies that the GR alone (and it was a popular design with planetary governments as well, mind you) produced somewhere on the order of fifty thousand of 'em. There's a reason they're common as f*ck.

 

 

the Rec strikes me as an anti-piracy craft.with her load-out.

 

we've established that she can be devastating against transports and fighters with her secondary armaments, and her heavy guns seem quite capable of taking on Corvettes and Frigates, which were likely the most powerful craft most pirate groups at the time could get their hands on. 

 

in mod, she can outpace many capital ships, so assuming that is the case in-universe, maintaining a blockade or running down fleeing pirate forces seems possible, especially if you take into consideration her long-range Turbolaser. in theory, the ship could dump her shield generation power into engines to chase down fleeing ships so that her other forward mounted guns could be brought into range. obviously there is no evidence of this happening so i won't recommend that capability being brought into the mod, but it seems like it might be used in such a manner.

 

her fighter compliment of 240 Droid Starfighters (In-Universe) could outnumber and overwhelm most if not all pirate forces that could be mustered against the ship, should it need the extra firepower against fighters or in general.

 

her 40,000 battle droids, while not skilled (assuming B-1 model), could be used for boarding actions against enemy ships or bases if you wanted the target taken (semi)intact, although her lack of Ion Cannons makes a perfect capture with no damage nearly impossible

 

using PR math, 960 Light Lasers translates into 480 Lasers, which translates into 240 Heavy Lasers, which turns into 120 Light Turbolasers, which translates into 60 Turbolasers, which translates into 30 Heavy Turbolasers in terms of raw power. given that, you'd probably have to have a dozen or so Lancers to counter that, and most of them would probably be severely damaged if not destroyed.

 

it says that the ship was based on plans stolen from the Mon Calamari. as described in HttE, the Mon Cal's were the bane of smugglers. this ship or others like her might have been the reason why.

 

This is actually a common mistake. Almost every military ship in the SW universe moves at around two thousand gravities of acceleration, there are some notable exceptions, such as the Executor class, but even the venerable ISD mk 1 has at least 2300 g's (Linky). It has nothing to do with speed, as an ISD can run down A-wings if you time it right, it has to do with the mass of the ship compared to the thrust potential of the engines and how long you've been accelerating. The mindset we have as ground-loving peoples, that bigger=slower, doesn't remotely apply to any kind of movement in space. You can have a ship the size of the executor out-performing X-wings if you build it to do so (tho that would require absurdly large numbers of really big engines). The reason, instead, why you do your best not to punch thru most defensive lines is their massed firepower. Having a dozen ships with all their weaponry pointed at you will hurt a lot more than finding a hole where only five of those ships have a decent firing arc, so you tend to dodge and weave your way around until the enemy formation either falls apart or moves in a manner that provides you that opening. The extreme range bombarment capability of the Venator and subsequent designs helps substantially in reducing numbers and causing problems with the enemy formation on that regard, which is one of the reasons it's so highly regarded. In terms of this modification, however, you're quite right. It's a destroyer class, which means it gets decent mobility compared to larger vessels.

 

The Recusant was originally intended to be a cheap, disposable swarm ship that could counter the Venators' fighter swarms and survive it's weaponry just long enough to kill it. You'll note that, despite being almost twelve hundred meters in length, the vessel itself is crewed by approximately three hundred sentients (absurdly low for a ship that size) and vast portions of the potential space is left either open or poorly enclosed to save on costs. It's one of the reasons that my Recusant XML has the costs reduced to a third the base cost, and drops the shields and hull down to .65 base. IMO, the Recusant is being treated more like the Providence, rather than as a completely disposable bit of firepower.

Edited by ashiruni, 18 April 2014 - 10:53 PM.

[johnchm.10]

looking at the ship again, i've come to the following conclusion. bear with me here

 

the CIS only stole the design.

 

we don't know how far along the design was. 

 

what i believe is that the original design was about 30-60% complete. enough for a prototype, spaceworthy hull, maybe the power generation and propulsion systems.

 

it's well established that the CIS and its members loved cutting costs wherever possible. what i think is that they got a prototype built and slapped whatever weaponry that wasn't being used at the yard at the time and slapped it all onto the prototype, and hooked a moderately powerful Droid brain, and just built the ship to those unrefined specifications 

 

it makes sense if you consider that a ship of this size should be run by a crew 10 times as large; the strange weapons fit that seems random and mismatched; skeletal appearance, and the fact that the ICS image displays sections of empty internal space

[a.fake.name]

looking at the ship again, i've come to the following conclusion. bear with me here

 

the CIS only stole the design.

 

we don't know how far along the design was. 

 

what i believe is that the original design was about 30-60% complete. enough for a prototype, spaceworthy hull, maybe the power generation and propulsion systems.

 

it's well established that the CIS and its members loved cutting costs wherever possible. what i think is that they got a prototype built and slapped whatever weaponry that wasn't being used at the yard at the time and slapped it all onto the prototype, and hooked a moderately powerful Droid brain, and just built the ship to those unrefined specifications 

 

it makes sense if you consider that a ship of this size should be run by a crew 10 times as large; the strange weapons fit that seems random and mismatched; skeletal appearance, and the fact that the ICS image displays sections of empty internal space

My guess: One of the groups that composed the CIS had the ship as cargo ships (hence the vast empty space), with a very few rigged for anti-piracy operations.

When the group joined the CIS, they converted more of the hulls to the escort (or possibly, wartime) specs.