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Anatomy of a Starship


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#21 Fregge

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:01 PM

I don't recall ion cannons doing any damage in X-Wing et al to be honest.

As I recall, ion cannon could blow up TIE Fighters, TIE Interceptors and TIE Bombers (2 hits for a TIE Fighter, more for the others, like the normal lasers) and there was the chance, to disable some of their systems, if you were careful (e.g. flight control, resulting in having them fly straight till they hit the border of the map).

If you blew them up with ion cannons, the message on the lower part of the screen said, "TIE Fighter *** has been disabled", but it counted as destroyed. I'm not sure with mines and TIE Advanced (normally you didn't face these with an Y-Wing within the campaigns) though, but all other ships didn't take damage to the hull. Only to the systems.

And to not leave a detail unmentioned, if your own ship got disabled by ion cannons, it repaired itself (or it was the R2 unit) like it was damaged by ordinary lasers with the exception, that no damage was done to the (graphics of the) cockpit.

 

Any questions, yet?  :scars:

 

BR, Fregge


Edited by Fregge, 24 June 2014 - 01:10 PM.


#22 P.O._210877

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:21 PM

Yeah, I got one. How long ago did you play those games? Because for my part it's been awhile and I'd forgotten about the TIEs vulnerability,,,

 

Well, you're right.

 

I believe the ion damage being treated like normal damage by the game engine (in regard to repairs) probably has more with game designing than anything else.

 

In any case, thanks for rekindling my memory. :wink_new:


Edited by P.O._210877, 24 June 2014 - 01:28 PM.

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#23 a.fake.name

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:27 PM

The nature of ion weaponry in SW is weird, it's essentially plasma with/or ionized particles. So technically it's an ionized blaster bolt... So yea, it should behave like any energy weapon and be able to physically burn holes thru an object like any blaster/laser bolt; albeit at a lower magnitude of damage. Plus I never bought the "inoffensive to organics" part, pass a current high enough to disable battle droids thru any flesh/nervous system and tell me that being is OK... :glare:

In the X-Wing novels, ions are specifically stated as basically electrocuting and killing or long term fucking up any sentient they zap.
Specifically, in Issards revenge when the Rogues are flying TIE Defenders, they use the ions to stop vehicles on a ground street and the ions basically fry the troops riding in the target vehicles.

As for the damage of the ion, well keep in mind in the clone wars era the republic used blue blasters not because of a color preference but rather because they use ion blasters... which do a perfectly fine job in inflicting physical damage.

So yeah a fighter ion bolt may not do more than localized EMP damage to a larger ship, but a planetary ion cannon should pretty much turn most smaller capitols into drifting hulks.

Remember in ESB, we see ISD's hit and showing signs of minor physical damage from the ion impact.

edit:
Oh, as a tag along to the subject, can we get rid of the retarded team colors for weapons ?

It's really really really really fucking annoying to be doing a battle, see what appear to be heavy turbo ions, turn the fleet around, then realize it was just regular heavy turbolasers turned blue.

 


Edited by a.fake.name, 24 June 2014 - 02:33 PM.

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#24 skie9173

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:34 AM

Ion cannons taking out a fighters life support can't be good for a pilot either. If an arc jumps from a control board to their personal life support packs on their flight suits things could get ugly fast if guess.

Not that there is a way to emulate that in game lol
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#25 johnchm.10

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:37 AM

how could you counter something like that? a localised EMP i mean? especially if you're in space?



#26 Aizen Teppa

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:11 AM

how could you counter something like that? a localised EMP i mean? especially if you're in space?

By law of physics EMP cannot work in space. Inside ship with atmosphere yes, but EMP in vacuum of space doesn't work - no air (or any other kind of atmosphere for that matter) no carrier for EMP blast, so technically certain locations on outer shell of the ship are 100% immune to ion bolts.

 

As for countering EMP - you can't (at least not with classic electronics as we know). There is nothing (viable)* you can do about it. It will fry everything  - in particular when vessel is engulfed by it (Planetary Ion Cannon).

 

Probably solid, 100% not penetrable bubble made out of lead (or something else) on one side and insulating material on the other (preferably ship submerged in a non-conductive liquid), but then ship hidden inside is as useless as disabled by ions drifting hulk.  ;)



#27 P.O._210877

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:20 AM

Oh, as a tag along to the subject, can we get rid of the retarded team colors for weapons ?

Ion bolts and waves in SW canon are purple, so changing ions to the proper hue would eliminate the blue and blue problem.


Edited by P.O._210877, 25 June 2014 - 06:21 AM.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#28 Fregge

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 07:58 AM

Yeah, I got one. How long ago did you play those games? Because for my part it's been awhile and I'd forgotten about the TIEs vulnerability,,,

Half a live, I think. But it was one of my first games (and the very first I modded) and I loved it.

And if I reflected about it, I probably could recap most of the missions. :)

 

 

By law of physics EMP cannot work in space. Inside ship with atmosphere yes, but EMP in vacuum of space doesn't work - no air (or any other kind of atmosphere for that matter) no carrier for EMP blast, so technically certain locations on outer shell of the ship are 100% immune to ion bolts.

You don't need a medium to transport electromagnetic waves or to sustain electromagnetic fields. At least in our universe. ;)

 

BR, Fregge


Edited by Fregge, 25 June 2014 - 07:58 AM.


#29 megabalta

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:06 AM

Indeed. However you could not use a lightning gun in space, which actually transfers electrons, because of the lack of medium.

A Faraday cage suits just fine against an emp.



#30 Ventessel

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 12:38 PM

Indeed. However you could not use a lightning gun in space, which actually transfers electrons, because of the lack of medium.

A Faraday cage suits just fine against an emp.

My instincts tell me you're either an undergrad physics student, or an enthusiastic amateur (no offense, though).

 

I would like to point out that a Faraday cage needs to be exponentially larger (i.e. include a greater volume) as the magnitude of the pulse increases. Anything larger than a minor pulse is going to require an impractically massive cage.



#31 megabalta

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 02:11 PM

Never said anything about the size  :smile2ap:

So in world of death stars... 



#32 a.fake.name

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 05:18 PM

How would a faraday cage work in space tho, where there is nothing to ground to ?
I imagine such a countermeasure would end up fried by the ion blasts, as in ESB we see some hull damage given to an ISD from a direct impact (admittedly, from a planetary grade weapon, but that just means smaller ones would take longer is all)


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#33 Aizen Teppa

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:13 AM

OK, ignoring law of physics for Fregge ;). Let's not forget that Faraday cage does NOT block magnetic fields. It can harness plasma (others charged particles) just fine but magnetic part of Electro-Magnetic-Pulse will still play havoc with electronics. It won't be (or rather shouldn't be) permanent, but still it is a serious issue.

 

What happens in atmosphere (back to law of physics :p ):

 

Take a car, ordinary car. Put it under EMP localized event (like they have in labs). Technically and practically car is perfect Faraday cage (in a thunderstorm it will protect you). EMP is another matter entirely -  ALL electronics will be fried to a crisp. Car is  a write-off. End of story.



#34 johnchm.10

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:39 AM

Moving on then. How are upgrades to be dealt with? To be more specific, have you guys kept the same 'unit x1 becomes unit x1a, improving statistic y' or have you added more comprehensive information like 'unit x1 becomes unit x1a, adds y number of statistic z to base amount' or something similar? Additionally, have the number of unit variants been reduced? So instead of having 10 TIE/Ln variations, there are like 6 to 8, but each upgrade upgrades additional stats?

#35 evilbobthebob

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:57 PM

Units upgrade in a similar way, yes, but instead of upgrading only one or two statistics, they tend to upgrade more at a time. We currently don't provide as much information as we'd like, but with unit stats still in slight flux, we don't want to spend lots of time typing up upgrade text for each so instead we simply display the statistics card for the upgraded unit. The number of unit variants has indeed been reduced. Starfighters, bombers and transports tend to have around 8 upgrades; freighters, corvettes, frigates and cruisers 6; destroyers and capitals 4. Note that I am including the base unit in these upgrade counts.


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#36 johnchm.10

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

This works for me

#37 a.fake.name

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:41 PM

So basically, all stats upgrade slightly each upgrade, instead of a few at a time as currently happens ?

Sounds good to me.

Question for the VSDs and ISDs, since there is such a vast difference between the Mk1 and Mk1 versions (especially for the VSD) is there any thought to keeping the VSD-I and ISD-I  buildable once the Deuces get researched ?

Cause it'd be nice to be able to keep tossing new ISD-I's and VSD-I's  into the mix, especially if (as appears to have been solved in another thread) it becomes possible to have the compliments automatically upgrade with the tech level.

 


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#38 johnchm.10

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 01:04 AM

I can see the Victory class having this, given the differences between the major subclasses, but not so much the Imperial. The upgrades to the Imperial 2 are similar to those of the Nimitz-class Supercarrier over the years. Mostly the same ship, just with upgrades to the electronics, weapons fit, Air Wing, and a few other systems.
The differences between the Victory 1 and 2 are more similar to the Iowa-class Battleship, where they added or removed entire systems like Cruise Missile systems and point defense Anti-Aircraft guns like the Bofors and Orlikon guns.

#39 a.fake.name

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:46 AM

True, I mostly just like having the ISD-I because it's slightly lower specs make for more of a challenge.

Now if only the VSD could be used on ground maps, along with the Acclamator, and Venator, since they're all supposed to be capable of atmospheric flight.

And before anyone cries balance, that's what snubcraft are for.


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#40 Aizen Teppa

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 06:19 AM

Will 1.3 bring upgradeable fighter wings on starbases and Golans? 

 

It's one thing which need love. It's a bit underwhelming that all aspects can be researched but even with top of the line ships Starbase 5 or Golan 3 retains same puny fighter capabilities at the any stage of the game. If player (e.g) have access to Tug 20,  X-Wing x9 or Scimitar it should be possible for Starbase to deploy it. Same with Tie-D or K-Wings and stuff. Or let me guess - it's not possible to code...

 

Then let's just have upgradeable Strabases/Golans, with some prerequisites required (like upgrading 'fighter x' to level y) for each upgrade? 





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