18 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

I have a question inside a modeling topic in SEE forums. I might as well as the same question here, in hopes to gain more input... I'm currently modeling Weta style Stone Giants for SEE, based on what we see in The Hobbit. These will be rigged to the Ent SKL after a great idea from Lauri, (instead of the current EA giant's SKL). Now, I am not sure wether to make this giant one single object, or if I should keep each major stone separate. Some say that it will be better with one object, to avoid risk of "floating stones", but I am afraid that if it's one object, that the stones will strech and create distortions in certain anims, and I imagine that if we keep the stones separate from each other, they will move without any major distortions. 

So before I wrap this model up and topologize it into low res, for UV mapping... Anyone (skilled in modeling, rigging and animation) got any other ideas/thoughts?   

Edited by Nazgûl, 01 July 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Single object, I would recommend.

[Mathijs]

Several people skilled in rigging already gave their input.

 

If you rig them seperately, it will not look good as the stones will look to move independent from one another, they will clip, and at times float.

[Nazgûl]

So two people is equal to several, according to you? If I would agree with that, I would not have made this topic, now would I?

 

With your input that makes three though, so thanks, for the input.

Edited by Nazgûl, 01 July 2014 - 11:55 PM.

[Mathijs]

Hey, no problem.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

It's about three people who know exactly what they're doing, trying to help, and it's rather rude to simply say you want better opinions than that.

[MattTheLegoman]

And I don't know about you but it's pretty easy to attach objects in 3ds Max 8. =p

The separate textures I can volunteer to join together into one texture in 3ds Max 8.

[Kwen]

You can get away with a merged mesh very very well if you use the secondary binding method. Which basically allows you to eliminate stretching. If you have two parts that become horribly stretched because of the rigging, then you can select the vertices in the middle that get stretched, and bind them a second time to the other bones. That way the parts that stretch will move "in between" the two bones, thus reducing the noticeable effect of stretching. In fact I've discovered that many of EAs models use this feature, which is why it is sometimes hard to recreate exact results the way they appear in Vanilla.

 

I guess this makes another person to add to the "Merge Mesh" list?

Edited by Kwen, 02 July 2014 - 03:21 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Very good and enlighting input indeed, thanks Kwen

 

 

It's about three people who know exactly what they're doing, trying to help, and it's rather rude to simply say you want better opinions than that.

 

 

? Ever heard of second opinions? You said one thing, Lauri said another. Is it really that "rude" to ask for second opinions? Nobody said anything about "better".

Edited by Nazgûl, 04 July 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[Lauri]

In fact I've discovered that many of EAs models use this feature, which is why it is sometimes hard to recreate exact results the way they appear in Vanilla.

Indeed.

[Nazgûl]

Is there a good tutorial somewhere online, that you guys could recommend, on rigging in Max (assuming that I could ever obtain Max). I have tried with RenX, but that didn't go so well =/ It would defenitely be preferable if I could learn how to do this myself so I wouldn't have to bother others ^^

Regardless, It seems that results can vary a lot depending on technique and if one or more bones are bound wrong. I've seen models that seem to move flawlessly and others that distort really bad - which is improved a lot by just adjusting one single bone. 

[Lauri]

Rob's tutorial is brilliant and very thorough. It's in RenX, but as we've told you before, it's pratically the same as Max.

And Celeglin made one for horses, which is also very handy.

 

They're both filled with images, so you should be able to follow them fine.

[Nazgûl]

Nice! So would you say that it's doable, to rig in RenX as well? Or is Max noticably better? (Result wise)

Edited by Nazgûl, 05 July 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[Lauri]

Result wise there's no difference. The quality of the bind comes from the amount of dedication you put in it. While primary rigging is quite easy once you get the hang of it, rigging to secondary bones (as Kwen mentioned) is what takes time to perfect. But even there it's quick to learn the most important parts.

 

But I would recommend Max. RenX tends to crash every now and then, and corrupts the file in the process.

[Mathijs]

RenX crashes a LOT on modern systems, and there is no secondary rigging option. 

 

Don't bother, get 3ds max 8.

[Kwen]

*coughpiratebaycough*

 

Oh my, excuse me.

[Nazgûl]

Lol, thanks guys 

 

I think it's probably the secondary rigging thingy that has left me with very varied results in the past, when I saw newly rigged models. Ridder Geel re-rigged some stuff for SEE that had major distortions in some anims, and the result was much better.

[NewErr]

Yeah, well he did re-rig some of the CAH in RC Mod also, got the model's leg right through his face he did...

 

Now on the matter... I did rig a shitload of things and trying to make them look good.. Now I know it's a lot of pain to see 5k vertexes you need to rig into just 1 model which needs to be binded to several bones ( or many bones like an ent skl). As a trick you COULD cut several parts of the body, like hands,head,legs,body, just to work with lesser vertexes per object as long as , the vertexes where the cut is ( on both objects) are rigged to the same bone. In final result it should look exactly the same as you would rig the whole thing. It's not really recommended but it's easier to go with it.

[Nazgûl]

Okay, sounds interesting. Atm someone with experience is working on the Stone Giant, so I'm excited to see the outcome