Jump to content


Photo

A Disappointing Future?


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#41 Plokite_Wolf

Plokite_Wolf

    File hoarder

  • Members
  • 2,294 posts
  • Location:Split, Croatia
  •  Parce mihi, Domine, quia Dalmata sum.

Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:49 PM

Does the word "equality" mean anything to you?

Administrator of CNCNZ.com and EVA Database, the C&C Wiki

You are also welcome to make use of my archives of official files:

C&C File Archive | BFME File Archive | Dune File Archive


#42 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:51 PM

Why should everyone be equal, if everyone was the same the world would have nothing to aspire to be.


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#43 Mathijs

Mathijs

    Post-modern Shaman

  • Network Leaders
  • 13,756 posts
  • Projects:Age of the Ring
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Leader

Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:54 PM

Oh, you're like that

 

If you had any real idea of what poverty is like, you'd be speaking differently. Enjoy your privileged existence.


No fuel left for the pilgrims


#44 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:57 PM

Yeah :p

Also I don't know what real poverty is because I exist in America where the troubles of real poverty such as that in a third world country aren't apparent


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#45 Plokite_Wolf

Plokite_Wolf

    File hoarder

  • Members
  • 2,294 posts
  • Location:Split, Croatia
  •  Parce mihi, Domine, quia Dalmata sum.

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:28 PM

Why should everyone be equal, if everyone was the same the world would have nothing to aspire to be.

There is always a goal to aspire to. If everyone was equal and an ideal society was reached, humanity would go for achieving knowledge by research and exploration.

But since you, like your fellow countrywoman Paris Hilton, wear the "Stop Being Poor" shirt, I no longer find you worthy of my attention.

Administrator of CNCNZ.com and EVA Database, the C&C Wiki

You are also welcome to make use of my archives of official files:

C&C File Archive | BFME File Archive | Dune File Archive


#46 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:48 PM

Comparing me to Paris Hilton is like comparing you to Dinko Sakic. I never said "stop being poor" if you read my post correctly.


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#47 Gen.Kenobi

Gen.Kenobi

    I'm a doc, not an...

  • Undead
  • 1,429 posts
  • Location:Brazil
  • Projects:Survive Med School
  •  Your Doc
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Hosting Admin

Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:11 PM

We are created equal. We're all humans. Society separates us. That's what's wrong with it. And with the system.

 

If you don't feel emphaty for your fellow human being who is suffering in need of everything - shelter, food, water, heating, medicine - then you can't be considered human. That's what separates us from animals. And even then, some studies show that there's cooperation and solidarity in some species.


kudos to Pasidon for this awesome avvy and siggy!


#48 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:18 PM

I feel empathy hence the Charity, however I don't feel the need to force anyone into supporting someone nor those receiving not reciprocating in return in some way.


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#49 OmegaBolt

OmegaBolt

    Lost In The New Real

  • Hosted
  • 6,273 posts
  • Location:London, England
  • Projects:Red-Resurrection
  •  O'Bolt

Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:35 AM

upper classes to take care of those in the lower


Well there's one of your flaws, believing in class. Just the word class in itself used to designate separations between people is incorrect, and then having one category supposedly above the other. Of course it's all luck of the draw, the upper class still die of cancer and rot on the inside.
 

Im all for charity and trust me I donate a decent amount to them however I don't want to be forced to help anyone.


Why not? If we force people who don't play by societies rules into prison, or even worse as some states in the US do, put them to death, then why can't we also force people to do good for society? If people aren't allowed to smoke weed why are some people allowed to take all they can to the grave at the expense of everyone else? It's psychopathic behaviour that surely cannot be tolerated.

If you had the rich and poor right next to one another, with the rich sitting idle in his nice house eating until he can't finish his food and then tossing it in the bin while the other is dying of starvation and living on the streets, wouldn't you want to correct that? If the only separation IS luck of birth why wouldn't you level the playing field?
 

That is why I don't support welfare, feeding the poor etc. If we (the US) advocated a more work orientated welfare system, where those on welfare earn the money by working in a civil service or military position and agreed to be drug tested then I see no problem with the system.


You're hitting on a fundamental misunderstanding here. You think that the ones in need of welfare don't work? It's completely the opposite. People are working down to the bone but can't make ends meet in this backwards system. Your entire economy is supported by the 'lower classes' and immigrants being exploited and paid less than is livable. Many simply fall off the end of the treadmill, which is why you get homeless people, drug addicts, criminals. The 'scum' of society aren't people that simply don't want to work, but working is not enough to live off. The only way to make it at the bottom is to work literally endlessly, without life, and that is pointless. Might as well thieve and deal drugs instead, or just give up and beg.

It doesn't make a lot of sense when the manual labour, shitty and dangerous jobs that no one wants to do gets paid the least yet comfortable office workers are making a killing doing comparatively fuck all.

The rich make their money off the poor, it's how it has to work. Money has to cycle around. If the poor get paid more then they have more money to spend, giving rich people more money so they can invest and make even more. But the money has to go back to the bottom else it stops flowing. If it stops raining the Earth dries up.

Edited by OmegaBolt, 27 July 2014 - 10:37 AM.

Posted Image

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#50 MattTheLegoman

MattTheLegoman

    LEGO Knight of Minas Ithil

  • T3A Staff
  • 3,669 posts
  • Location:Tomorrow, when the War began
  • Projects:Mapping this Middle-earth
  •  Mapper
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:T3A Staff

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:11 PM

I would place education, expectations and opportunities into the mix as well.

 

The future needs better education so people can aim for a higher paying job if they have the skills and interests.

 

Communities/families/individuals that are in the poverty cycle may find it hard to have higher expectations and continue living in the poverty cycle (born poor and die poor). They may be able to use the opportunities to come out of the cycle.


Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no one is too poor to buy. - C.S. Lewis

There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning. - Louis L'Amour

What will matter then will be people. If relationships will matter most then, shouldn't they matter most now? - Max Lucado


#51 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:41 PM

I just don't imagine a world where there will be enough jobs for everyone and not have someone exploiting someone else. Its not for my lack of intelligence but perhaps for my lack of creativity that I believe that there will always be a need for factory workers and white class workers. I just think its a necessary evil. Class distinction is something I don't foresee us ever getting rid of. People talk a lot about leveling society but don't ever have concrete (haha concrete I'm a civil engineer :p ) ideas about how to change society for the better. Please tell me, I would honestly love to know a working system.

 

Edit: Also don't think my disagreements with you makes me think any different about any of you (Not that it matters to most of you). I still have the utmost respect for all of you and just enjoy an  intellectual discussion on political and fiscal reasonability


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#52 OmegaBolt

OmegaBolt

    Lost In The New Real

  • Hosted
  • 6,273 posts
  • Location:London, England
  • Projects:Red-Resurrection
  •  O'Bolt

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

I don't think anyone is suggesting there should be no factory workers. We're saying that the system should be made to work in their favour so that they can work in a factory without dropping below the poverty line. More investment in these people leads to a better world for everyone. It's not an evil to work in a factory, it should just be a better compensated job. As for people always exploiting others, that needs to be curbed, which it already is to a large degree. I assume there is a minimum wage in the US, there are many laws that employers must comply with when hiring employees, there are rent caps, slavery is no longer allowed... there are many tools to stop people being exploited, they just don't go far enough. Currently they are just enough to stop an uprising but they should be pushed in favour of the majority and the 1% should be made to pay their fair share at the very least.

 

Just look up Universal Basic Income as one idea to readdress things. It's an idea that's been around for a long time. I believe Switzerland might be trialing it at some point, or at least I heard that it was in discussion. They also trialed something similar in a Namibian village recently and showed that health increased, school attendance went up and crime was reduced by 50%.

 

What you seem to be saying is that there will be factory workers and there shouldn't be a welfare system to help them, which is pretty mad considering the rest of the economy relies on factory workers.

 

Also someone working in a factory vs someone in finance isn't a class separation and I don't know why you think it is. You seem to think that one is inherentely better than the other, which is one of the problems of the system in the first place. People are told to get a certain type of job where they make the most money while doing the least. It's like capitalistic laziness. So certain jobs where you get to wear a suit and feel like part of the crowd are made to look better and they're unrealistically paid better too. There shouldn't even be classes at all in America considering there is no monarchy. There is no divinely appointed overlord or "long to reign over us" nonsense like in our anthem. There is just a lot of equal people doing different jobs.

 

All I see is things getting harder with continued price increases, lower wages and austerity (while national debt and deficit has continued to rise regardless, it is a hoax). My mother is now working more hours with two jobs in a smaller place than she was when I was born 22 years ago. I just don't see why things should keep getting harder when the entire 'dream' propogated by society is that if you work hard you get somewhere. It isn't true, it's just what they want you to believe so you continue struggling in vain.

I laugh every time I hear news reports of the economy 'getting better', as if it is designed with the goal of growing and helping everyone. If the economy gets better everyone's lives improve and one day we will all have whatever we want, but that isn't the case. The system isn't designed to improve anything just continue to rotate. Reaching post recession levels is supposed to sound like a good thing as if everything was alright then. And it's the working people that have to pay for it, not the aristocracy.


Edited by OmegaBolt, 27 July 2014 - 07:39 PM.

Posted Image

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#53 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:46 PM

Im not saying that a factory worker is inferior to say upper level management. However the way the US economy works is that the factory worker is seen as inferior, im not defending just simply stating that is what the current view is. Also the only way raising the pay of factory workers in America would make sense would be if that was a policy carried out amongst the entire world. As long as there are Chinese workers who agree to work in factories cheaper there is no way can American factories compete. Also I never said that there shouldn't be a system to help people working, I said there shouldn't be a system for those refusing to work.


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#54 Gen.Kenobi

Gen.Kenobi

    I'm a doc, not an...

  • Undead
  • 1,429 posts
  • Location:Brazil
  • Projects:Survive Med School
  •  Your Doc
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Hosting Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:20 PM

Considering what I've read here, I'm not quite surprised with this: http://nypost.com/20...nt-poor-door-2/


kudos to Pasidon for this awesome avvy and siggy!


#55 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:32 PM

You are aware the New York Post is a tabloid right?


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#56 Gen.Kenobi

Gen.Kenobi

    I'm a doc, not an...

  • Undead
  • 1,429 posts
  • Location:Brazil
  • Projects:Survive Med School
  •  Your Doc
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Hosting Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:47 PM

The Guardian, Daily Mail, and several others announced the same thing... even my nation's main journal did it.

It's not about the editor's opinion, it's about the fact.


kudos to Pasidon for this awesome avvy and siggy!


#57 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:05 PM

Well im not saying its not the fact I was just stating that the New York Post isn't reputable, not that most newspapers and news channels don't twist things in some way anyways. Such is human nature. However I don't agree with a "Poor Door" nor do I agree with any public or private discrimination based on race, age, creed, gender or class


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#58 Mathijs

Mathijs

    Post-modern Shaman

  • Network Leaders
  • 13,756 posts
  • Projects:Age of the Ring
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Leader

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:10 PM

No, I think you do agree with a certain degree of segregation. Because having no welfare, stupidly low minimum wage, and a dependency on 'charity' directly leads to the poor staying poor in poor areas with other poor people.


No fuel left for the pilgrims


#59 The Best Guest

The Best Guest

    Herald of Kane.....

  • Division Admins
  • 2,048 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Revora, {IP}
  •  Varied
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:PR Admin

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:14 PM

Yet again I never said there shouldn't be a system to help those who are working. Also I have never mentioned minimum wage I don't know why you guys keep thinking I did :p


mrbar.jpg
SEE-Team_MapEditor.jpg

#60 Mathijs

Mathijs

    Post-modern Shaman

  • Network Leaders
  • 13,756 posts
  • Projects:Age of the Ring
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Leader

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:23 PM

You said that paying laborers more would hurt your economy (even though this really isn't how the economy works), ie. stick to low wages because, apparently, 'China' (again, not how it works). Keeping the minimum wage as low as possible directly promotes social segregation as it widens the gap between the rich and poor.

 

If you think a majority of jobless people on welfare are lazy, then, as I've stated before, you have no concept of what it means to be poor. Very few people choose to sit around in poverty if they have the opportunity/ability to work and improve their situation. Lazy Joe on the dole is NOT AT ALL representative for the vast majority of welfare recipients. There is very, very little comfort in a life on welfare, especially in a country like the US, and you can bet your ass most people are trying hard to improve their situation by getting a decent job. Now, if the US minimum wage was big enough to actually make a decent living...


No fuel left for the pilgrims





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users