40 replies to this topic

[Iforgot]

Right I meant changing them to the expansion faction would bring a whole gameplay change. Preferably it would pit cells of rebel corruption all over the galaxy along with thier initially tiny ragtag fleet against the overwhelming military might of the empire trying to stamp them out like a elephant trying to crush a million ants. Not just giving the rebels more advantages

[megabalta]

Exactly. Conventional military strategy vs guerilla warfare instead of two sides with different colors and some different looking units.

[johnchm.10]

I can back the idea of buying them at a greater cost, as the increased cost can be indicative of towing costs, costs of securing repairing, and refitting the ships, (removing traps left behind by the previous owners, scrubbing the deck of blood, adding automation and multi-species compatible supplies and equipment.) and recrewing them.

Alternatively, we could take a page from the TR mod and have some ships be planet-exclusive for certain sides, exe. If the rebels take kuat or rendili, they gain the ability to build ISDs and VSDs, respectively. Obviously, I would advocate for only having the mark 1s and 2s in those cases.

The reason I like the ISDs and VSDs is because of firepower. Heavy Turbolasers are in short supply in the rebel fleet. Even upgraded models of capital ships are somewhat lacking.

[megabalta]

I'm strongly in favor of specialized planets, it would give so much more strategy to the game.

Shouldn't rebels do stuff with their advanced fighters/bombers? I mean thats what I saw in the movies. Their biggest fleet was made of maybe 5 MCs and a dozen of frigates and corvettes in ep6.

Edited by megabalta, 27 July 2014 - 10:51 PM.

[a.fake.name]

I can back the idea of buying them at a greater cost, as the increased cost can be indicative of towing costs, costs of securing repairing, and refitting the ships, (removing traps left behind by the previous owners, scrubbing the deck of blood, adding automation and multi-species compatible supplies and equipment.) and recrewing them.

Alternatively, we could take a page from the TR mod and have some ships be planet-exclusive for certain sides, exe. If the rebels take kuat or rendili, they gain the ability to build ISDs and VSDs, respectively. Obviously, I would advocate for only having the mark 1s and 2s in those cases.

The reason I like the ISDs and VSDs is because of firepower. Heavy Turbolasers are in short supply in the rebel fleet. Even upgraded models of capital ships are somewhat lacking.

 

 

I'm strongly in favor of specialized planets, it would give so much more strategy to the game.

Shouldn't rebels do stuff with their advanced fighters/bombers? I mean thats what I saw in the movies. Their biggest fleet was made of maybe 5 MCs and a dozen of frigates and corvettes in ep6.

I also agree.
Adding the option for unique ships at one or a few places galaxy wide makes for more variety.

[Aizen Teppa]

Exactly. Conventional military strategy vs guerilla warfare instead of two sides with different colors and some different looking units.

I don't want to be picky about things, but that what it really is. 2 Empires: 1 established and 1 in-progress. They can call themselves all they want. At least Palpatine's Empire is clear from the start how they will proceed.  Old Republic/Rebels/New Republic/Galactic Alliance is definitively more subversive and insidious. A lot of slogans of peace, freedom, blah, blah. What we got is corruption, endless&pointless Senate debates, galaxy run by corporations, freedom is only superficial, permanent surveillance. 

 

We don't need even GFFA. Look no further than Soviet Block vs US Block, how our Earth is today. Sounds familiar?

------

 

OK to the mod at large.

 

I like the idea of specialized planets. Perhaps some additional buildings required to build special things (like SSD shipyard)? Probably best example is Kuat where you could obtain plethora of ships not available anywhere else. I raised that point in some other thread about ships.

 

I would also like to see trade planets/space ports where for a fee you can recruit transports providing additional income for limited period of time. Instead building stacks of transports player will pay for trade runs. It'll technically take transports out of the game unless transports-4-troops is in the making - all for it.

 

But I detest Zann. Corruption, Slavery, Intimidation, Bribery - don't tell me it does not sounds empire-ish...  Of course for Rebels it will be called: Operational Cost, Freedom Fighters, Influencing Subject, Tax-free Finances. Black Market is the only one I'm willing to swallow, but Rebels have that already with vanilla R2D2/C3PO.

[megabalta]

These names are actually pretty good   I'd be happy to spy for pass codes or "influence" an imperial officer to let me get through to a behind enemy lines planet for a little surgical strike on a nice expensive research station.

 

I like the idea of removing freighters and non-combat transports (for performance and build interface reasons), and having special trade route planets with buildable trade/customs stations for extra profit. Another idea is that profit could come from asteroid mining in special space only asteroid "planets" with buildable asteroid mining facility. Again more strategy to take/defend these places, plus I always thought having income from combat transports a bit silly.

[johnchm.10]

Well, Iforgot, this is basically all we do here on the Phoenix Rising Forums. Propose ideas, modify the proposals, debate them, have tangential ideas, and eventually someone from the team comes in. Sometimes they release little tidbits about the next version, and sometimes can confirm or deny an idea.

[megabalta]

You could always make the ideas come true if you wish. I have a strong feeling that a significant part of the ideas suggested on this forum are not in the mod because it takes time to actually make them. If a comitted person/group of the community could take some time to mod say the planets.xml, specialized planets could be a reality in 2 weeks. I think PR would consider integrating something already done more likely than just an idea which would take a week of his time.

[Iforgot]

Yeah, have to see about that, just like everyone there's real world stuff to worry about first.. I have started tinkering with xmls to make the ship build times longer. Seems like something as large as an imperator should take at least a year to build(less on specialized planets, making them more important). May try to do some other things too, its cool to be able to make changes with not much more that text editing like I did with some of the old total war games

[a.fake.name]

You could always make the ideas come true if you wish. I have a strong feeling that a significant part of the ideas suggested on this forum are not in the mod because it takes time to actually make them. If a comitted person/group of the community could take some time to mod say the planets.xml, specialized planets could be a reality in 2 weeks. I think PR would consider integrating something already done more likely than just an idea which would take a week of his time.

Honestly, at this point, we need to get a guide written up for modding PR.

Once people learn to easily edit a file/line to change something up, that changes the game for a lot of the tweaking debates, as well as collaborative efforts.
 

[johnchm.10]

so just for laughs, i looked it up, and there were a total of 18 Imperial-classes, 9 Victory-classes, and 2 Executors that the Alliance/New Rupublic managed to capture, plus 1 additional Victory, 1 ISD 3 or 4, and 2 Dom-3's that they managed to build

[Aizen Teppa]

so just for laughs, i looked it up, and there were a total of 18 Imperial-classes, 9 Victory-classes, and 2 Executors that the Alliance/New Rupublic managed to capture, plus 1 additional Victory, 1 ISD 3 or 4, and 2 Dom-3's that they managed to build

Yeah really laughs. I suppose they will build Galaxy Gun and 10 World Devastators next time.   Now give Empire access to MC120s when they capture MonCalamari. If it works one way, it should the other. Frankly it'll get totally silly.

 

I'm certain that if PR team decide to go that route I will remove that "feature" to the best of my modding abilities. Primary goal of SW is distinctive difference between ships. Sith Empire - iron-fisted brute, NR-Empire - subversion and guile. If both sides can (even not easily) access all ships - what's the point?

[johnchm.10]

If it's canon, why not?
Thrawns revenge has a cap for certain units like their sovereign, executor, Victory class destroyers from Crimson Command, etc

We could have that here in some way. Like have, from the rebel level 5 station, a max of 25 isds of various types, and a dozen vsds, etc. Be able to be built.

Edited by johnchm.10, 06 August 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[megabalta]

I think it's best to stick to actual movies for canonity, besides as I've seen most other stuff are called legends now. Another thing is that PR sticks mainly to the 20 imperial years (which is great), with only one or two campaigns set closely after that time period. If you'd like to build all sorts of units for all sorts of new factions in another time period, theres the nice Thrawns revenge mod.

 

On the other hand I support the idea of planet specialized ship building, if it's logical (presence of ship building companies). Rebels building ISDs if they capture Kuat is marginally logical (remember building a ship does need lots of various resources, not just a shipyard), however empire building MC warships is totally not (they simply don't need those inferior ships).

[Aizen Teppa]

Look played extensively ICW vel TR and NR get some free Imperial Remnant ships when they capture planet xyz but that's about it - and only that. On the other hand silly thingy is that ICW/TR doesn't allow PA to build Executors & Tectors (to name just 2) even if they hold Fondor, Kuat, Bilbringi and Mon Calamari, so it's hardly possible to justify Rebel scum building Imperial warships in PR. "Canon"... well prefer cannon fodder. It's not my intention to start religious war, I many times raised the issue of hopeless "canon premise" which has so many convoluted and ludicrous histories made only to patch some cracks and holes authors created themselves. I don't care about it ('canon'), never had and never will (doesn't matter SW or ST). If story (book/game/movie) is great - super-duper, if story (b/g/m) is lame then all 'canonality' in the SW universe (or any other) won't help it. Period. End of story.

 

I support cap for super-capitals entirely. I do have Sovereign limited to 1 + 1 with Palpatine. AI can't deal with Imperial muscles if human-player obtain more than 1 SSD. Certainly in my version AI is totally lost how to deal with Executor (not to mention Sov). Without thousands of fighters AI behaves like crétin.  Again, fully aware, that it won't be possible to spam Executors in 1.3. Population cap won't allow that. But cap of 3 is logical. Sovereign [and possibly Eclipse 1/2 if playable by default] need serious reload nerf for superlaser. It's pointless fighting them with reload of ~20 sec. Even at 5 minutes I get the nagging feeling that it's vastly overpowered. If Rebels get Viscount (which is really far outside mod boundaries) it should also be capped. Perhaps for SSDs there should be one more feature - permanent visibility on GC map. Let's be honest hiding multiple 20km ships is not easy even in vastness of space.

 

I see no point of capping VSD/ISD family. 1.3 will hurt Empire badly and curbing production of staple Imperial vessels is not good idea at all.

[skie9173]

I feel that if the rebels/NR gets access to Imps, Vics, Doms, and perhaps Interdictors then it should be mainly as rare starting forces, or as hero transports.

They might also be given a few event units too. Say conquer Kuat, get a few capitals. But they should be more more than 2nd upgrade level, and maybe you need to hold the planet for the equivalent of say half build time of the vessel to represent the time it would take to finish building a vessel that had been in progress during the invasion.

On the flip side the Empire can have events for free units too. Occasionally they could "nationalize" ships from shipping companies, giving them free transports and freighters. Taking certain planets might give conscript army troopers/stormtroopers after a delay. Maybe even let The Imps get just a few Assault Frigates, the Remnant did supposedly try to steal some.

Just my random morning musings

[johnchm.10]

For the cap, I was mainly referring to rebels building isd's and other large, formerly imperial craft

[Aizen Teppa]

Forget about building ISD or ISSD by Rebels.

 

One thing which need improvement on Rebel side is Bulwark. 

 

I like the ship. I really do, fell in love since Supremacy first appearance, but...

 

Bulwark from 1.0-1.2 is relatively weak capital ship. At best along the lines of basic Bulwark Mk 1 or 2 (when upgraded). IMHO Bulwark available to CSA should be along current Rebel version, but for Rebels it needs some serious bite. Let's face facts: Mk3 boasted considerable firepower, it could go toe-2-toe with biggest Imperial warships. Yet in all PR releases (so far)  Bulwark is a wimp. Praetor 1 or 2 can pulverize it in little to no time at all. Executor need 2 shots. 

[johnchm.10]

Okay,fair enough. Having the current mk 2 (in mod) be the new mk1, and having an uprated mk2 as the new mk2 would make sense.
Heavy dual turbo lasers (or the slow firing quads, if duals are the mk2's armament) and turbo ions, at least 25% increased shields and hull seems appropriate.