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#1 Nazgûl

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:57 PM

Currently I'm sculpting the base mesh for Fimbul, the lieutenant of Azog's Warg riding Hunter Orcs...

O6tZv3E.jpg


Edited by Nazgûl, 05 August 2014 - 04:12 PM.

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
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#2 Irenë Hawnetyne

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:22 PM

You think maybe you're putting a little bit too much effort into these for a low-poly game?


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#3 Nazgûl

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:43 AM

What's your point?

Painting almost done...

SSWl110.jpg


// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
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SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
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#4 Irenë Hawnetyne

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 06:38 AM

My point is that you put far more detail into these models than BfME can recognize in low-poly. That's not an insult.


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#5 Nazgûl

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:56 AM

I still don't see your point, as I have tried the new Moria Orcs in game, and they look just as good as I had hoped for. I built over 20 hordes of them, without any major lag. This is just one single hero unit, so a few K polies won't be a problem. This is how I model, like it or not ^^


// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
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#6 MattTheLegoman

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:40 PM

They are completely over the top. But if that is the way Nazgul wants to make them then fine - I am also sure that you plan to trade them to peoples who do need the higher polygon stuff? - just make sure you get good stuff from them - we did not need the Haradrim warrior (already had the CAH one) or the Dwarven warrior (used to have Mathijs'). =p

 

Valaquenta makes the most beautiful 3d models without the massive amounts of polygons - as seen in the RC-mod Elven Fortress. =D Naz could definitely learn from looking at Valaquenta's work. =p


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#7 Irenë Hawnetyne

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:50 PM

If you disagree, Naz, that's fine. But you don't have to do so aggressively. 


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#8 Lauri

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

If you disagree, Naz, that's fine. But you don't have to do so aggressively. 

Even though I agree with you, we've already pointed it out for him quite a few times. We've tried to convert him to the low-poly, 3ds Max side, but he's not coming.

 

And I'd hardly call the responses agressive, truth be told.


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#9 Nazgûl

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:18 PM

*sigh* Allright, listen up before this gets out of hand again...

 

First off, that was not "agressive" Irene? If you find that agressive, you haven't seen much  :trickydick:

 

Secondly, please... enough of the "you can learn" - I CAN'T! I have tried to learn modeling the way Mathijs, Valaquenta, Lauri, etc does it, but I just can't! ZBrush is the ONLY client I can operate and understand, and this is how I model. So, please stop the constant reminder. I KNOW the models are high poly, over the top, etc. Either you like my models, or you don't. Simple as that. This forum is stacked with talented people, and I admire them greatly. I WISH I could do this some other way, but this is the only way I can. So it's not very inspirational to constantly being told how "wrong" I am. We're all here cause of a hobby, right. Please don't make it into something else. Construvtive critisism is one thing. That's what made me redo the Stone Giant into something better. But this is just plain demoralising. (And I bet I'm gonna get spanked by staff for "talking back" now)  :whatoa: 

Back on topic, in case someone cares; Fimbul is now finished. After topology, I hope to make it under 4000 polies, despite the funny weird looking armor (whatever that is supposed to be?). Not sure if I'm gonna go with the cape he's wearing in the movie though. It will limit the choise of SKLs and AFAIK there is no warg riding SKL that supports cape... 


iE5fAdP.jpg

PS, the armor and clothing is partially based on a toy as there are basically no good images of this particular orc, outside the dark scenes in the movie.

 


Edited by Nazgûl, 06 August 2014 - 05:21 PM.

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#10 Nazgûl

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:27 PM

However, there is one major problem with my models, besides the poly count issue, that I myself worry about - and that is the rigging. It seems that, from those who have tried, that the higher poly count makes it harder to rig it properly to an SKL. So THAT worries me, for sure  :whathuh:


// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#11 Irenë Hawnetyne

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:15 PM

It seems that, from those who have tried, that the higher poly count makes it harder to rig it properly to an SKL. So THAT worries me, for sure

 

 

Yeah... rigging 50k+ polys... you'll get a lot of nope from Max trying to do that.


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#12 njm1983

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:40 AM

If it's a major issue, then it might be in your best interest to try to learn to get lower polys. It doesn't have to be "insert modelers name" way but whatever works for you. People all learn and grasp concepts differently and at different rates. I can model with clay but when I tried z brush out it was a very big "lol nope" for me.

The model looks alright. It's not one of the impressive ones. He does look more like a toy. I'm not sure if it's a texture issue. Just my thoughts.

#13 Nazgûl

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:17 PM

My models are not 50 000 polies for Pete's sake? :flameblast: In raw format (like above) they are about 4-8 million. But when re-topologized, they are about 3000-4000! Just like the vanilla giant for instance, which is roughly 3k... Now, if anoyone thinks they can get these models down to whatever you expect/want, like 200-300 polies? You are welcome to try retopologizing them, in any OBJ-compatible client of choice. Just let me know, and I'll send you a high res mesh to work on...

 

I read somewhere that high poly models would tend less to distort in animations. But I never heard of any extra effort required to rig them, but it seems to be like that, unfortionately as I (once again) only model this way, or no way and so far, learing to rig hasn't been successful. Btw, I also plan on using my models for 3D printing in the future.

About the "toy feeling", yeah it might be the colors as I had to use an action toy for this (pic below). All scenes in the movies are either far away or in dark moonlight, which makes it hard to colorize him. But I do see your point, so I will desaturate and throw some animal hides on there, as seems to be the case here (2:13)



fimbul-wargBD16021.jpg
PS, some off topic @MTL:
 

 

 

I am also sure that you plan to trade them to peoples who do need the higher polygon stuff? - just make sure you get good stuff from them - we did not need the Haradrim warrior (already had the CAH one) or the Dwarven warrior (used to have Mathijs'). =p

Yeah, primarily I want to trade with Edain mod, but they are hard to reach. The Total War mod do have some useful stuff, out of which I got a little. The Haradrim warrior was defenitely needed as I was not happy with the CaH kitbashed ones. They are not movie accurate, which these are. I will modify them slightly though by merging and remapping as they are like 40 meshes each =p. The dwarf you mentioned was probably the best we had, in terms of "not seen on screen"-models, and I never intended to scrap it, but due to my being clumzy and accidently disrespectful, it was pulled back - and I have respect that, so that matter is closed. However, with the upcoming 3rd Hobbit movie, we will get to see what Iron Hills dwarves look like, so we will most likely need new models featuring them anyways, as this mod is a movie based mod. I'm not sure wether I can model "humanoids" like dwarfs, elves and men.... So I hope I can trade, but we'll see.


Edited by Nazgûl, 08 August 2014 - 06:48 PM.

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#14 Kwen

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:46 PM

Do note that polys are different then vertices.


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#15 Nazgûl

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, the vertices are the "binding" points, or the coordinates of the mesh's polygon distribution. So vertices count is higher off course, for all models.


// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#16 Irenë Hawnetyne

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:13 PM

My models are not 50 000 polies for Pete's sake?  :flameblast: In raw format (like above) they are about 4-8 million. But when re-topologized, they are about 3000-4000! Just like the vanilla giant for instance, which is roughly 3k... Now, if anoyone thinks they can get these models down to whatever you expect/want, like 200-300 polies? You are welcome to try retopologizing them, in any OBJ-compatible client of choice. Just let me know, and I'll send you a high res mesh to work on...

 

 

Look, Naz, I'm not victimizing you, so don't get all defensive. I'm telling you, for a fact, that the BFME system can not handle two or more armies of, say, ten battalions of Orcs or Goblins. For each battalion there are about twenty units, and for each unit there are 3500 polys. That's 500,000 for each army. Combine that with animations, the mass manipulation of all these polys, then animated plane textures for decals, particle effects for catapults, building construction, projectile animation, fire FX, water... bear in mind this game was released in 2006.
 
In short, if you want to do this, if you really want to make a really high-definition version of the game, I won't stop you. But it's worth saying that if you do, it will be so encumbered by the detail you've put in that it will be unplayable. Just a word of advice to you, so at least I know I tried to help.

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#17 Nazgûl

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:31 PM

How come that you always get to tell everyone how I am, or define how I act? One minute I was aggressive. Now I am defensive:glare:

This is a HERO, a single unit, not a horde unit. But yeah, I know what you mean and I appreciate your concern, but you made your point several times (as have others), so let's drop this now, shall we, and go back to modding   :toasting: 

As of right now, none of these models might never make it into game though, as I can't rig and I have noone to rig for me, so yeah... perhaps it all will just be a side track hobby, which means I am left to asking for donations, which people don't much like either ^^ The general mantra in this community has always been "If you want something, do it yourself". That's what I'm trying to do, and I am well aware of the fact that these models preferably should be 10 times less polygons. I'm just a litte sick of hearing it  :whatoa:

I don't fear any problem in game with the heroes. Horde units might cause problems for those with very old systems. But, as long as I don't have other modelers on my team this is the best I can do.


Edited by Nazgûl, 08 August 2014 - 09:34 PM.

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his mod!"
SEE_Banner_2008.jpg
SEE-Team_Leader.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I S.E.E. YOU! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#18 njm1983

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:22 AM

I think the hero units can be 3500 polys. Regular units should fall around 1500. That's just my thought. What you are doing is fine be me. I'm just a stickler for optimizing. So I can get as much out my gaming as possible. I think everyone shares that sentiment since SEE is very fun to play on a large scale. However this discussion has been beaten to death. Perhaps I could learn to rig.

As long as I can watch someone do it on video step by step I can learn pretty quickly.

#19 Kwen

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:31 AM

It's not a matter of the user's system, then engine simply cannot handle it. I have a very VERY powerful computer, but the old TPW with our 2500 poly hoplites lags to an unplayable level. It's the engine.

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#20 Lauri

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:49 AM

"If you want something, do it yourself"

"If you want something done, learn to do it yourself." It's not that people are going around and thinking "I don't want to help anyone", it's more like people who can already model\skin\rig makes their own stuff and doesn't need to trade. And I'll admit, I'm part of the majority that would rather make my own models, rather than trade for an alternative model. I could have rigged all of your units, but it's no fun to rig other peoples work. There's nothing in it for me. Remember, the reason I bound the goblin models was because I was curious to see how low I could go with the polys, and to prove a theory I had.

 

Then again, I'm also one of those who have contributed, no strings attached :p


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