Rhedd

My motivation with modding DoW2 comes also how much Relic will allow us to edit/change the game the way the fans want to. I'd have more incentive if I knew 3d models could be exported ingame like how easily they can in DoW1. If Relic gives us more freedom in DoW2 then that gives us all more impetus to change what paid devs have failed to do. Right now, like CoH, its brutally locked down where only code changes can happen. Hell, we can't even create our own maps and the ones in DoW2 are so bloody small and uninspiring.

Totally agree with you. Of course, none of that stops anyone from modding the skirmish AI, but it would be nice to have some tools to mod other things, too. (Especially maps.)

I'm a little surprised that the DoW2 community would demand better Skirmish AI from it when its clear DoW2 is meant for multi and internet play against a human player. Why play against an AI when you can just match against other players and GO?

So, how is that different from DoW1? Yet, you felt the need to make a good AI for that game.

I understand if you simply don't like DoWII and don't feel like devoting time to it, but "it was made for online play" was just as true of DoW1, and I would've thought that you, of all people, would already know the millions of reasons people want to play skirmishes against an AI, instead of real people.

Anyway, we'll see about DoW2 AI dev -- I can see what we did in DoW1 and just "simplifying it" for use in DoW2 because their are half the things for the AI to worry about now. No teching, No base building.. just worrying about building X unit, choose X wargear, use X ability, cap area with X unit, retreat X units.

Believe me, that's plenty to do, with the AI in the state that it's in at the moment.

I don't know much about modding AI, but I do know enough to have tweaked CoH's AI to build units in the proportions that made me happy, so I thought I'd look in to doing the same with DoWII.

I often joke about how Relic AI isn't bad, it simply doesn't exist. Wow, who knew I could've been so right? The .ai file that contains all the rules for how to pick what to build? In DoWII, it's EMPTY. The file structure is exactly the same as in CoH, but there's just no AI. To be fair, it's not completely empty. There is some left over code having to do with building CoH engineers, for all the good that does.

I guess the AI is picking units based on the very simplest cost/effect ratio, because there's no code at all dealing with what unit is good against what target, what unit is better than its cost suggests, limits on how many of one unit is practical, or anything else that was present in CoH. No wonder it only builds two units.

Vanilla CoH AI wasn't good, by any means, but it was a far cry better than nothing.

Help us Obi Wan! You're our only hope!

That's seriously your opinion, Psychobabas. I'm far from alone in really enjoying DoWII. Saying that it's a WC3 ripoff either shows you've not actually played the game, or that you're an idiot, since they're in no way similar. Custom wargear in no way equals WC3's hero-focused and hero-driven gameplay.

Thudo, you're welcome to your opinion, as well, but DoWII isn't nearly as shallow as many claim. The depth is just elsewhere. I think that the type of player that values their skill at perfecting build orders just has a difficult time valuing their ability to tactically maneuver, instead. That doesn't mean the game is shallow, though.

Like Arkhan said, I bet that if you guys did as good a job on DoWII's AI as you did on DoW1, you'd find it harder to program, not simpler, because while it's easy as pie to teach an AI to build things in an optimal order, it's far harder to teach it how to flank, assess terrain dependent tactical situations, and maneuver in a sensibly bold yet cautious manner.

And here's where I beg you guys to try.

The most glaring flaw of DoWII, to many people, is the typical Relic non-existent skirmish AI.

Have you actually been to the forums and noticed how many people say, "Man, I sure hope the SkirmishAI team does a mod for DoWII, and soon"?

If there's nothing to be done with the new AI other than teach it how to build more than scouts and razorbacks, then for God's sake DO it. The effort will be minimal, and the game would be improved dramatically.

Teach the AI how to build all the units and actually use its special abilities, and you'd be heralded as heroes by a huge chunk of the fanbase. (Including me.)