Death_Kitty

I hate to say this, but you do realise that Thors *actually* have splash, right?

Thors have splash. Wolfhounds have splash. Small, but noticeable vs air units.

 

*insert magikarp meme*

-_- ok. I am utterly confused as to why anyone opposes removing AoE for the ptera, but...

"Thors have splash. Wolfhounds have splash. Small, but noticeable vs air units." - What does this have to do with anything I'm saying? Am I complaining about air vs air splash? Perhaps ill put some fine print next post that reads: "Thor and Wolfhound don't have splash ​that's noticeable vs ground units."  Happy?

Tell me about how wolfhounds and thors kill tier 3 AA vehicles, their counters... o wait, they don't, do they? At critical mass of both units AA usually wins, as it does not stack up, and does splash a fair amount of time, or else has high dps/ RoF. Ptera critical mass needed to kill a much larger amount of units is sooooo much smaller. Honestly, I don't know why I bother. 

List of good arguments I've heard for keeping ptera AoE:

That's it. the whole list. there are none.

I would agree...

i still stand with my proposed changes:
-add some kind of marker to the harbinger call in, so we know where it will come

-buff pteronodon health and remove its AOE, or at least reduce it and give severe drop off

-general bane stat reduction

-buff virus and sniper against certain infantries 

-nerf GI IFV

-buff rocketiers

-make blasticade wall available at tier 1 (people say that it is a waste of time b/c of support powers, but come on how often do you see china in 1v1? not every game.)

 

 

Allied infantry blobs

 

 

vs Foehn? am I a noob or does Foehn have indestructible (relatively) Knightsframe to massmurder those things?

 

and what about getting fcked by a surprise MADMAN? like seriously those require so little skills they need a nerf time/damage something

 

Thing is you bring your MCV with you after building barracks and 3 refineries so you spam pillboxes at his base and use infantry blob to kill buildings. At that point of the game Foehn is usually low cash

 

See, all this seems like cheese is required to beat foehn. Foehn is a faction the most people have issues with. and I wonder why people have a problem with me wanting to remove ptera aoe...

This might be a problem with the developers not wanting to budge on their vision at the cost of balance... not the first time its happened. Not to mean any disrespect but...

 

what

 

This entire post is "I hate WoC: lets nerf literally everything so they dont work anymore"

 

No. 1 thing i should clarify is that all my feed back there does not take the changelog into account. Was kinda short on time... Most of the nerfs I want are already in the log. 

Now if buffing the pteranadons health, speed, and maybe damage and removing AoE, and giving some visual feedback as to where the harbinger will hit is "I hate WoC: lets nerf literally everything so they dont work anymore"... I don't know what to tell you.

Those are literally the only 2 WoC changes I'm actively campaigning for. Should have made that clearer, yeah that's my bad. sorry.

But that's it.

And so far no one has give 1 iota of information as to how that would be detrimental from the current status quo, other than it being a deviation from said status quo. I want to buff the thing in exchange for the nerf for crying out loud! Its pretty obvious that balance is dancing around this It has nerfed everything except for the actual issue: the aoe.

@alstar, gonna bullet point my responses to you, (sorry really bad with quotes).

Lets get a couple things out of the way first: 

1.) I main LC, SC, USA.

2.) you are a better MO player than me. By far. Like were not even close. I struggle to find players that i can play with without ping in the 100's, And I can never play with any of you it would seem b/c of passwords/time-zones.  so this: "Which can be disabled. Or delayed. Or taken out. If you have brain, that is." - hurts. If coronia decides to turtle, my ability to consistently maintain map control and counter harass is difficult, and harbinger usually comes anyway. I can get the AA to kill it, but it keeps me pent up in my base, and I end up losing map control, and by extension the game. Been playing RTS all my life, and I willing to put the time in to learn this one. I've put up threads asking for help, and if memory recalls the only responses you've given have had the depth of a dinner plate.

3.) when i said "quetzal and new buffed tarchia to kill stationary" stationary refereed to AA turrets, which i think an intended use of these units, no? My bad for not making that clearer. 

Now:

When I brought up aoe, what i meant to say is support aoe is fine. Hummingbird, EMP, Toxin clouds, stuns, all of that Im ok with. It gives interesting flavor to what otherwise would be mindless army spam. It gives depth. It required other units that can attack. When you look at AoE outside of foehn that is used in attack though, its clear its limited; what do i mean by that? Nuwa is slow, can't turn quickly, aircraft need special buildings just to have a few of them up at a time, some aoe is bound to abilities with cool-downs, others are limited to units like heroes with a units cap of 1, athena has to charge before it fires, tyrant does low armor damage and has low armor. the pteranodon breaks that. 

Its not difficult to time you attacks so you army hits the enemy at the same time. Control group pteras separately from the rest of the fleet, send them in first so that the fleet catches up with them right before they hit AA range. Same with ground units. Been doing it in sc2 for years.

Infantry is something you are forced to rely on b/c if you f***ed up, you have no more vehicles... or if you made any mistake what so ever preventing you from reaching AA critical mass. Or at least I am.

Now the pteranodons splash is something that consistently makes life miserable whenever coronia comes up, and I know I'm not the only one. The fact that this units has been nerfed so many time in every aspect except the AoE leads me to think that's the problem. And hey, if it would turn out the ptera is useless without the aoe, ill be the first in line pushing to give it back.

@JackoDerp about pteras (no i am not letting it die)

Nice list of "counters" that might work assuming you AA was immobile when the pteras attack (b/c splash)... on top of the fact that pteras never come alone. roadrunner to kill AA (splash), skystations to knock out gehennas like handepsilon said (plus anti infantry splash!), new buffed eureka to kill more AA (so much splash) quetzal and new buffed tarchia to kill stationary(arty w splash), zorbs, kingframes, buzzards, knightframes, (all of which have splash) take your pick to kill infantry, and if all else fails, use one of 2 super weapons! (get the theme here? give you a hint: splash)

Wings of Coronia gets my ire for being the most egregious of the foehn faction but make no mistake I loathe the other 2 only a little bit less. What the hell is up with fiehn, WoC especially being so AoE-heavy. Mental omega is not build for having many units that can do splash damage. Look at the first 3 faction, how much splash you find there? What there is/was has either been significantly penalized (nuwa, tyrant, splatter, athena, fury) flat out removed (mercury ifv) nerfed (foxtrot, prism tank), limited to 1 unit (cent, irkalla, kov, siegfired) or required actual micro (vulture, fury, foxtrot) and the list goes on. Foehn... nope none of that. This game, this mod is not designed for splash, its not healthy for it, at yet foehn is overflowing with it. 

WoC

-undo ptera speed/health nerfs, undo even buff the damage, remove the AoE

-road runner loses its splash, or its damage. MO does not need death balls. or have it lose its iron curtain after stunning its self. I hat this unit more than the ptera. 

-knightframe loses splash

-harbinger gets turned into anti unit support power with far less health. that or its splash get turned down.

-zorb loses its splash

-kingframes splash tuned down

 More to come. Im doing a full post on this when i have time.

I'm using anti-inf tanks.

 

Any release date for 3.3.2

When its done / soon / any day now / next year.

Take your pick, any of these work.  

Suppressors do need a Nerf. Ill agree to that. And they don't have splash right? I don't use them too much; PF not my style. Nothing against PF ofc, i just like Russia, US & SC. I like the Russia buffs and all the other buffs in general. I understand why people ticked about a lack of suppressor nerf though. PF has a really strong arsenal.

I also think the chrono legionnaire buff is inconsequential. I thing their "damage" should go up. is 8 right now, so to my understanding, a target with 400 health will take 50 sec for a single legionnaire to warp out... maybe bump it up to 10? 12 dare i say? These are are micro expensive infantry behind a very high tech barrier.... 

I'm also skeptical about the borrilo buffs... ill see how it is live though. 

I would like to offer a suggestion to nerf pteranadons if anyone is interested: create a new armor type, AA, and make pteranadons really bad against it? I find pteranadons kill AA really fast, and infantry fall to vulture + Aqualena wayyyyy to fast to make a difference. I looking at you flak trooper... and archers+ GGI to a certain extent. Also like the idea that they should not do splash. Same with megarrena I guess? Me and my friend don't play with fohen against one another: still way too powerful. I wish they had something that hurt them VS original factions, but not against fohen. 

And finally to the toxicity around on the forums: 

Graion: your post brought up a couple of very good points, but you did it in such a unpleasant way. your post are toxic to the point of you good ideas are washed away with cussing and flaming. Not just here; in ROTR too. 

X1: I play a lot of AI too (being in North America suk: no one to play with). I don't find the changes that hard dot work through. I mean, we AI players see a challenge when the AI has an advantage over us, no? But when its PvP and the other player has an advantage over you that is not skill. (otherwise alstar == nerf ) is not fun. I don't think its fair to expect them to worry about the AI, when the AI is not that smart and other players really are. I'm ready to try new comps against the AI with new changes!

Everyone else who was toxic: the way you all ganged up on X1, regardless of how he acted, was scary. The circle of flaming showed me a weaker community than I thought existed. Don't be like the starcraft forums. We all know each other. We play a mod that all of us love. We have our factions, maps, units, lore that we all love. We are better than this. Shame on you for making it otherwise.

Everyone who stayed out of it: GOOD JOB!!!   OK I'm done. Peace.

too far makintoke, too far. Jeez m8, you do get banned everywhere don't you. Go troll on the Star Craft 2 forums. you'd be right at home.

Also: HAIL TO THE GREAT TRUMP, VICTOR OF THE AMERICAN ELECTION, DEFEATER OF THE DEMOCRATS, LIBERATOR OF THE WEALTHY, GREAT DESTROYER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, LIEGE OF THE IDIOT, PATRON OF THE DISHONEST BUSINESSMAN, TORMENTOR OF THE FEMI-NAZI, FIGUREHEAD OF THE REPUBLICANS, MANIPULATOR OF THE SYSTEM, ENEMY OF THE ILLEGAL MEXICAN, BUILDER OF WALLS, ENDER OF HOPE, VOICE OF CLINTON'S E-MAILS, BLESSED BY THE WALL STREET,  BRINGER OF IMAGINARY JOBS, MURDER OF THE ENVIRONMENT, MISER OF PROFIT, DICTATOR OF POLICY, COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE UNITED STATES, ARMCHAIR GENERAL OF THE BOARDER PATROL, ALLY OF THE BIGOT, ANNIHILATOR OF JUSTICE, BRINGER OF THE DARK TIMES, KILLER OF FUN, KILLER OF KITTENS, PROFESSIONAL PUBLICITY STUNTMAN, FULL TIME HYPOCRITE, DEFILER OF EVERYTHING NOT YET MENTIONED. LORD OVER ALL THE AMERICAN EMPIRE.

that being said:

CLINTON WAS WORSE. she killed kittens AND puppies.

PS...that's gonna get me a warning, ain't it?