Replying to A New Era dawned - Turrets all on FrontLine!

Thanks UserBytesBack.. I will run some quick tests tonight to fix this since we are so utterly close to release. To fix the AI's behaviour in T&H and CA victory conditions is one of our main objectives + many people out there do play these conditions as they find simple Anhiliation boring.

Hmmm.... if the AI halfes the number of objectives - does it round up or down? (if the latter is the case it woul perhaps explain why the ai stops if there is a unequal number of objectives?!

Another theory i have is that the ai is too busy rebuilding towers and listening posts (which are quite vulnerable to my artillery ploy) to get enough troops to meet the "attack anyway" params (200 is quite a high number...)
- and as there are no units in sight (indirect fire) they squander quite a lot of builders....

As for the Easy/ normal settings - it has occured to me even in the original game that the ai is somewhat lazy in capturing their objectives - might be wanted this way... as i usually play Hard or above so i didn't mind then!

Whatever - i'm gonna try some things this afternoon - will notify you if i find something!

Again - it's no real bug - its just that the ai cannot cope with this specific tactic - so no real harm is done - great work throughout!

Cheers

Btw.. another section that may shed some light on why the AI isn't aggressive on T&H and Control Area..

buildbasestrategy.ai

function BuildBaseStrategy:__init( baseinfo ) super( baseinfo )

	--set maximums, if needed
	if self.info.no_alternate_objective ~= nil then
  CapturePlan.Maximums.points =	resource_manager:GetTotalNumStrategicPoints() / 2
  CapturePlan.Maximums.objectives =	resource_manager:GetTotalNumStrategicObjectives() / 2

The thing that boggles me is only Easy/Standard difficulty levels are the ones with the

buildbasestrategyinfo.ai

             --don't win by strategic objective or control area victory
  no_alternate_objective = true,

I think some minor testing is needed here to finally fix it. Alot of people do play T&H and ControlArea so some resolution would be cool..

Well I did some testing with a 3vs3 and 4vs4 (oh man.. 4vs4 is sooo incredible!) and the AI was actually upgrading turrets to Tier1 (anti-vehicle) as it expanded to captured LPs. Wierd. Maybe its a money issue as the map I played yesterday was VERY limited to the # of LPs but this one each starting point had 4-5 LPs to start hence his ability to upgrade.

Nevertheless, a good test for the AI is playing the 8p_Penal Colony map.. Oh man.. slim pickings! The AI is still brillant on that map as it both satisfies both the infantry aggression Larkin is looking for while being also defensive and good at base building. That map is a toss up as resources are VERY limited so its up to many elements to surviving that one.

Anyway, UserBytesBack.. we'll still doing internal testing - you can understand its among the project members. A release is iminent - whether the T&H and ControlArea game modes are fixed before then is unknown. I should look at it based on my message below. I'm just enjooying the full AI test at present.

We will be looking at the T&H and ControlArea game modes - thats one of our objectives. Its probably due to those parameters mentioned in my second last message.

Good Morning, again!

Thanx for the threshold tips - will play around with those params a bit... meanwhile - please don't protect your releases.... I'm a nosy guy, i know - but i don't redistribute the work of others and don't mind if some patch crashes my game... (not with your mod!) so i'd like to test your code further!

Meanwhile - how do i attach files in here? You wanted to see some replays of the "Exploit-Tactic" - i had two nice games yesterday - in one you can see plainly what i mean (the other was a custom map with preplaced mines - changes the ai's tactic a bit... what an eyepleasing slaughter!)

Thanks a lot for your genial work!

Cheers

Just doing some final code testing..

Can you check that math.random thread regarding rebuilding and re-upgrading destroyed turrets? I think as Giskard mentioned we need an Update function for those so they get re-updated upon re-construction.

Btw, the random turret upgrader updates based on the final total of turrets right? So if the AI picks 14 turrets to build in the game, then he updates 7 of them to Tier1 anti-vehicle (based on math.random 50,50). Once turrets are destroyed and recreated they fall out of that realm and are considered just regular turrets. Thanks!

Then hurry up, fix it, and make the release...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

better to do a release with a known bug than with many unknown

Then hurry up, fix it, and make the release...

I believe the difference in the way the AI does things in T&H and CA victory condition lies in the Skillset files.

For buildbasestrategyinfo.ai.. this is what it is for HARDER/INSANE:

 --how much requisition I have before I try to build an uber unit
  uber_unit_cost = 900,
  
  --minimum amount of power before I build another generator
  min_power = 50,
  
  resourcers = 2,
  
  --reserve this amount for building units/buildings (not for use in upgrading/ reinforcing)
  req_reserve = 120,

  ETA =
  {
 	 cost = 250,
  },
  
  --attack rating needs to be greater than this prorated to attack
  attack_rating = 200,
  
  --need at least this at all times
  squad_cap_threshold = 2,

  --need at least 3 at all times
  support_cap_threshold = 3,

For HARD:

 --how much requisition I have before I try to build an uber unit
  uber_unit_cost = 1000,

  --percentage of opponents army to build up to
  max_army_percentage = 0.9,
  
  --minimum amount of power before I build another generator
  min_power = 50,

  resourcers = 2,
  
  --reserve this amount for building units/buildings (not for use in upgrading/ reinforcing)
  req_reserve = 500,

  --attack rating needs to be greater than this prorated to attack
  attack_rating = 100,
  
  --if you have this amount of army, attack anyway
  max_army_size = 3500,
  
  --need at least this at all times
  squad_cap_threshold = 2,

  --need at least 3 at all times
  support_cap_threshold = 3,

And For Standard:

 --how much better they should be before I build an uber unit
  uber_advantage = -1200,
  
  --how much requisition I have before I try to build an uber unit
  uber_unit_cost = 1000,

  --don't build secondary buildings that allow you to quickly amass troops
  no_secondary_buildings = true,
  
  --don't win by strategic objective or control area victory
  no_alternate_objective = true,
  
  --percentage of opponents army to build up to
  max_army_percentage = 0.6,
  
  --minimum amount of power before I build another generator
  min_power = 50,

  resourcers = 1,
  
  --reserve this amount for building units/buildings (not for use in upgrading/ reinforcing)
  req_reserve = 180,

  ETA =
  {
 	 cost = 400,
  },
  
  --attack rating needs to be greater than this prorated to attack (always attack)
  attack_rating = -500,
  
  --if you have this amount of army, attack anyway
  max_army_size = 3000,
  
  --need at least this at all times
  squad_cap_threshold = 2,

  --need at least 3 at all times
  support_cap_threshold = 3,

See the differences? I think we need to tweak these setting for HARDER/INSANE skillsets so they are more competitive in T&H and CA game modes .

Also.. Not the attackstrategyinfo.ai file.. for HARDER/INSANE:

 --my prorate against yours before I stop attacking you and retreat
  stop_attack_rating = -200,
  min_units = 2,

For HARD:

 --my prorate against yours before I stop attacking you and retreat
  stop_attack_rating = -100,
  min_units = 2,

  --if you have this amount of army, attack anyway
  max_army_size = 1500,

and for STANDARD:

 --my prorate against yours before I stop attacking you and retreat
  stop_attack_rating = -1500,
  min_units = 1,

  --if you have this amount of army, attack anyway
  max_army_size = 800,
  
  --percentage of opponents army to attak with
  max_army_percentage = 0.5,

I believe we aren't far off in fixing this problem!

Hi, again!

Thanx for your permission! As for the Replay i will try to upload one tomorrow (only have Internet at my PC at work - but no Dawn of War here... ;-))

But it all comes down to one tactic - if you play "Erobern und Halten" or "Kontrollgebiet" (dunno how its called in english) capture the "Decisive" Object (i.e. with three strategic points capture the middle one but NOT the one nearest to you) without activating the victory conditions. Then the AI will gather all its troops around one of its strategic points/ flags and stay there for half an eternity... So you find out where they are, send in the Force Commander (similar Tactics with massed Ari (captured Leman Russ/ Defiler/ Eldar Thingy) just get near there without direct line of sight and Rock&Roll... As long as the AI stays in the Shadow of War it dosen't counterattack or flee - and after some minutes of punishment is just ripe to be overrun!

Strangely this Tactic only works on Harder and Insane level - on Hard the AI attacks at some time - on Insane it just builds and builds and builds.....

So i thought this might be a bug of sorts in the ai - and that it can be fixed (even without artillery a enemy that doesn't move isn't that exciting....)

Cheers to all