Replying to Sync Errors while playing online...

The topic is indeed dead, and indeed, no breakthrough was found.

I'm 90% sure that the problem is fixed in 2.2. The MP sync problems were performance problems.

Multiple confirmations now that removing SCAR from the AI mod did NOT solve the CTD's or multiplayer issues.

And, no independent public confirmation that Argonaut's changes solved the problem either, despite Aralez's initial assertion to me to the contrary. Aralez was wrong in his original assessment. That's all.

The topic is indeed dead, and indeed, no breakthrough was found.

Regarding your other question to me Larkin, we can take that up in private or not, kinda up to you. But, it doesn't need to be done in public.

Don't worry, Argonaut. Me and Theta just disagree - often.

Thanks for your insights on SCAR.

I never intended to create confrontation but merely to pop in and try to confirm some of your guesses with my findings. SCAR *could* have been the problem, but as Larkin said, with the entire SCAR folder removed it can't be the problem with the AI skirmish mod.

Bye Theta. If you read my last post in the thread carefully you might have to admitt that it does not include any agressive confrontation, just facts. These facts confronted your view of course and it seems that I was not wrong with my assumption. Where is your problem with me ? I just disagree on a lot of things you bring up or add my 2c just like I did here.

After feedback today, it looks like to me that they have gone back to the plain vanilla for their online games with the Survival Maps, so no direct indication that the AI Skirmish Mod problem has been solved.

It does indeed look as if my direct question was misinterpreted.

And, after being shot down here, it also looks to me as if they are in no hurry to test the 2.1 AI Skirmish Mod online in multiplayer with the Survival Maps, and my request for further input is sort of being ignored or avoided for now. They are in no hurry to test it out.

Well, I tried. It looks like it's time for me to crawl back into my hole for a few more months, which I always do after I get into Larkin's way or steal too much of his glory.

The only thing I can say for sure from the Survival Map experiment is that SCAR doesn't necessarily have to be a death sentence for multiplayer, as was originally surmised in this thread -- and, of course, removing the AI Mod SCAR hasn't necessarily solved the problems for the AI mod either. But, having working multiplayer SCAR present in the Survival Maps means to me that the SCAR doesn't necessarily have to be the thing that's wrong with the 2.1 AI Skirmish Mod.

Meanwhile, in another thread about the 2.2 AI Mod that Arkhan started, it looks to me as if he has possibly found other avenues of getting the thing to sync up online, of course, they too look to be as unconfirmed as the reports I was getting regarding the Survival Maps.

It looks like to me, though, that Thud needs to get himself some betatesters for the AI Skirmish Mod that do online gameplay, and then Thud can know for sure whether the future versions of the AI Skirmish Mod are working online or not. Alas, I only play offline in Skirmish Mode. And the fact that my sources for the Survival Maps know that to be the case was part of the confusion or misinterpretation of my direct question as to whether the new Survival Maps are working with the AI Mod and the UC Mod online -- the Survival Maps are working offline with those mods, that's for sure, as even I have tested that.

Well, I tried to get you some input and help, but I guess this bunch here is a bit too unfriendly or confrontational, and the Survival Boys have taken their marbles and gone to play elsewhere, for now. I didn't think anyone would go back to plain vanilla at this point, but they apparently did.

I'll still keep my fingers crossed, though, that Arkhan has also found real solutions during his vacation, as I'm still a real fan of the AI Skirmish Mod and the UC Rebalance Mod combination, and would like to see it all working online someday even though I don't play online. Future online play will just get it even more exposure and use, which I think it deserves.

Wow, Larkin, you really are an ogre and a wet-blanket. <grin>

I would have thought that you if anyone would have been excited by the idea of SCAR being successfully and reliably played online right now in multiplayer Dark Crusade games of any kind, as it was you who introduced us all to SCAR.

Whether they are using the AI Skirmish Mod or not, the fact that they are multiplaying SCAR successfully should be reason enough to celebrate.

But no, all you are interested in is shooting them down, or so it seems to me.

At some point, one of them will confirm whether the 2.1 AI Skirmish Mod was a part of their tests or not, but the fact that SCAR was a part of their tests and that their changes were successful should be reason for any sane person participating in this thread to celebrate. That means that there is no 'absolute imperative' need to remove the SCAR in the future AI Mods if the SCAR is done right, in order to get it to play online. (You have had them removing SCAR in attempts to get it to work.) So, I would think that Argo's success would be good news for you or anyone interested in SCAR. Any kind of workaround is good news. Yes, his particular workaround might not work for the AI Mod's specfic problems (I don't know yet, haven't received independent confirmation), but it shows that some of these things can be isolated and either fixed, worked around, or adapted to work, or creatively removed.

I thought Larkin would be excited about some of it, if anyone would be. But, I guess I sometimes expect too much from Larkin. My bad. <sigh>

As players reported sync problems even while all SCAR code was completely removed I can hardly see how Argonauts tips can solve the problem. Other players with SCAR also confirmed that they can play the AI without problems. Therefore a success story is still no indication that the problem was solved.

Well, Aralez was telling me just now that his and Argonought's Survival Maps are working just fine online now with all mods, including the AI Skirmish Mod and the UC Mod.

Of course, I have no firsthand knowledge of this, and I might have misunderstood Aralez's report to me, as it was a short message.

But, if Argonought really did solve your AI Skirmish Mod desyncing problems somehow as Aralez kind of indicated to me, I suggested quite strongly in a message to Aralez that Aralez come over here and give a confirmation or denial. But, there just might be something to it all, if Aralez indeed has now been playing the AI Skirmish Mod and the UC Mod online through the Survival Maps with no problems as his message to me kind of indicated, and then we would all owe Argonought a deep thanks for the solution.

Anyway, I'll await Aralez's deeper confirmation or denial before saying more. But, if Argonought solved the problem, then there's really not much more to say except that 2.1 needs a patch or a hotfix so that everyone who plays the AI Skirmish Mod online or in LAN can sync up and play with the AI Skirmish Mod by itself. It's gonna probably be awhile before the next Relic DC patch, most likely.

Yes, for SCAR at least. Checking if the player is alive, before checking if they're a CPU solves the problem. Even when it's obvious the player is alive, without the check it gives sync errors.

Remember, I'm no AI guy, I've just popped in to try and shed a little more light on the problem, as it's quite clearly deep seated - It's just that I've been quite lucky in that SCAR is only a single file and is easy to find and fix a bug. You guys have loads of files and when it's potentially a single line it could prove a massive problem. Broadly, it's a piece of code that checks the state of a player in a certain position and I only dropped in to give you my findings.