30 replies to this topic

[Paladin58]

Today, the first testing of the prototype HOUND will take place in the Yuktobanian mountain range, with a live-fire test. Of the five variants of HOUNDS, this will be the marksman variant, with two modified Bushmaster 30mm cannons as the "rifles", with the shells modified into SABOT ammunition, and three Vulcan chainguns as close range weaponry. The armor is a lighter, but weaker version of the Chobham armor found on the Merkava mk. IV MBT. The movement base will in fact be a chassis of a Merkava mk. IV, to hold the weight that is in the rest of the vehicle. It has a 68% chance of sucess, as it is just a prototype, and there are still kinks to be worked out, parts to manufacture. This announcement is to the doubters of the HOUND project, to which we say "Shove it."

Nikolai Rikovich
Yuktobanian R&D, team leader of HOUND program

[Paladin58]

OOC: Wow. I expected someone to ask about something not mentioned in the previous post. Darn. I figured that maybe since Spence was so skeptical about the project, maybe he would try to stump me with a question... Oh well. Now with the results!

IC: The test was a success, with the only exception for the passing was the speed, of which it only made it to 40 mph. Even though the speed testing wasn't a pass, it was sufficient enough to get funding for Stage Two of the project, where real parts will be funded, manufactured and tested. The height of the test was during thetarget practice portion, where the HOUND scored beautifully. All of the targets, of which they were old, dilapidated T-54's, were destroyed, with an average kill distance of 300 meters. The next testing will be in a year's time, when actual HOUND prototypes will be tested, as this was just a concept mock-up, to see if the project was feasible. The next tested HOUND variant will be the Soldier variant, with a bipedal walking system, to see if it will work properly.

[Athena]

((OOC: Well count me out lol, I haven't been understanding this RP for a month or something.. so I didn't totally get what you're doing.. just that you're testing 'something'. Maybe Spence has been busy.))

[Soul]

((Hope you don't mind me posting here but I got something to say. Wow Nology your bringing those HOUND mechs into this RPG Game.))

Edited by Forgotten_Soul, 28 July 2006 - 12:21 PM.

[MSpencer]

OOC: I've given up with questions. I tried before but each time I was blocked by the whole "Everyone's going to have mechs, ash has supermissiles and crave has a flying laser platform", so I decided to join the peanut gallery...
My project just isn't announced yet.

[Blodo]

Everybody's gonna have a "secret research project" at this rate. Might as well join in and say that I have a couple projects on my own mind.

[Soul]

((I got some ideas if anyones interested in them if you are then I'll PM you some of them and you can use the ones you like .))

[Paladin58]

OOC: Well, Spence, if you really did have any questions, all you needed to do was ask, and I would have answered. As long as it is not along the lines of "WTF are you doing it for when it could be beat with tanks?", ok?

[Soul]

((I'm just surprised to see that you brought mechs into this RPG ))

[MSpencer]

OOC: It was more of a:
1. How are they powered? And not hydrogen.
2. How can you get the required area for a hovercraft bottom with something standing up? It won't have enough lifting power.
3. How do you plan on using a powered armor system which isn't so bulky that it's infeasible? In thirty years, we might have something like the Powerloader from Aliens, but not something like a tank...
4. How will recoil from firing anything over a 37mm gun not knock it on its ass? Hovercrafts can't be too tall because the bottom is not stable under extreme weight without any kind of direction.
5. Beyond hovercraft legs, how would you make the thing move? LCACs don't just have a hovercraft skirt and fly along under no power. They need a propulsion means. Jet engines? Well there goes hydrogen. Any powerful turbofan? Hydrogen's pretty much out the window.
6. Unit price.
7. Expected deployment.
8. Variations. You just came up with a new one which wasn't originally on the drawing board. How fast can this one go if it doesn't have magical hovercraft legs?
You told me to list some of the questions, those are some of them.

[US Airways]

2. How can you get the required area for a hovercraft bottom with something standing up? It won't have enough lifting power.

He could always use something to the effect of the Hiller Lifting Platform. Mind you, that wouldn't really be too effective/efficent, but I don't really see any practicality for something such as this anyway.

[MSpencer]

However it would be absolutely massive... and would require a ridiculous amount of energy, if even possible. I have my doubts as to whether or not it could produce enough lift to lift a Volkswagen, let alone an armored mech.

[Athena]

Everybody's gonna have a "secret research project" at this rate. Might as well join in and say that I have a couple projects on my own mind.

((OOC: Heh, maybe I'm an exception. I haven't posted any research for lots of what would be CCW years.))

[Paladin58]

Well, for starters:
1. All the moving parts, like the independant weapons aiming systems, and the turret so the cockpit can turn to let the pilot see the targets, will be hydraulically powered. The main source of fuel for getting the legs to move and junk like that is jet fuel, which is quite expensive, so other fuel methods, including hydrogen fuel cells, are being researched along with the project, which will also benefit other nations. (That's to whoever thinks that nothing good can come from war)
2. The HOUNDs with the hovercraft mobility base will not be as large, as armored, or as powerful as the other variants, as they will be mainly used for scouts. And, to answer question 5, the scouting HOUNDs will (hopefully) be the only mechs that will require jet fuel, as they will have jet turbines as the main propulsion part of the hovercraft mobility base.
3. The current HOUNDs will not be as bulky as the actual HOUNDs (from the game which I grabbed them from. You can see what those are here.). They will actually be quite smaller, and will more resemble the ACV's (from the same game. A pic is here. They are the smaller ones. The only one with treads is an actual HOUND.), which are the first-generation HOUNDs. I will probably not actually have the actual 4-story tall monstrosities, and just go with the smaller, twenty-foot tall ones, because I don't feel like getting straight RP ownage with HG HOUNDs from miles away. Plus, that wouldn't be fair.
4. The mechs with hovercraft mobility bases, which are known as "Scouts" from this point on, will only have two Vulcan chain guns, and a heat-seeking missile launcher usually found in the Bradley Linebacker IFV. The bipedal "Soldier" variants will have dual 30mm airburst grenade launchers with a laserguided missile. Only the "Sniper" variant will have a larger, probably somewhere in the 50-60mm range cannon, equipped with long-range optics, with a lower mobility base and smaller cockpit to make up for the loss in height thanks to the higher caliber of weaponry. Then, there's the "Defender" variant, which is on a quadripedal mobility base, has heavy armor, and carries three rocket pods similar to the ones found on attack helicopters, like the Apache. The Chobham armor that was on the Sniper in the first test will not be found on the normal Sniper variant, replaced with normal tank armor like the kind found on the T-80, due to if you're seen as a Sniper, you're as good as dead anyways. The Chobham will only be on the Defender, with multiple layers.
5. Already talked about in Question 2.
6. I haven't made a final figure yet, but I'd say, around the cost of an F-22 fighter for each one. That's because the technology will be quite new, but not as expensive as things found in stealth fighter tech.
7. If you're talking about a date, they will go into trial service around a year after CCW 1, and will be in full deployment around 5 years after CCW1. Probably around CCW2, there will be more variants, I'm not sure.
8. The current variation can go only 40 mph, due to it being on tank treads. The hovercraft bases haven't been implemented yet, and those are the fastest, albeit not as fast as I would like. The Soldier variant will probably go faster, maybe around 55-60 mph due to it being quite a bit lighter than the one that was tested. The Scout will be the fastest, with top speeds of around 80 mph. The Defenders will be the slowest, probably going, at a maximum of 15 mph.

Well, I answered your questions. Enough detail, or should I just start pulling the crap out of the website? Personally, I don't want to do that, as I actually enjoyed thinking about those questions, and answering them to the best of my ability.

[chemical ali]

You havn't stated build numbers and the definate cost of each unit.

[Paladin58]

All I know is that the maximum amount of HOUNDs that will be in active service for the Yuktobanian Army is 30. And, the first actual HOUND number will be aound 100, with 50 of those going as export. The export price will be around 1.5 times the manufacturing costs, which will be around the price that the US Army pays for each F-22 fighter, without armament costs for the bombs and missiles. That is one thing I need help on from Spence. I went to the Global Security website, but I can't find the exact amount for one F-22. Could you help me out? I'll give you a cookie.

[MSpencer]

The US Army pays billions upon billions for each F-22 that the Air Force gets. They "pay" something in the billions for each, but the funds never seem to disappear or even be diminished.

1. Understand that jet fuel doesn't burn too efficiently, and that you're going to need to refuel these mechs twice as often as regular tanks, which are already every six hours of constant movement or so. It's not so much the fuel as much as the energy requirements. Also, that hydraulic power has to come from somewhere, meaning you're going to certainly require a good amount of fuel for each. Without large fuel tanks, combat range is significantly reduced for each unit (One of the infeasibilities of such a project). This would be just as bad with hydrogen power, only a little cheaper.

2. That's not the point. They're still a heavy exoskeleton. A mech is simply an exoskeleton, and they're going to be quite bulky, meaning a hovercraft base will not have the area required to support them. This is another major infeasibility of a project of this type.

3. As previously stated in #2, the technology level of even twenty years from now will not allow things like that. Unless you come up with some amazing new polymer which is twice as strong as steel and a quarter of the weight and very easy to deal with, you're not really going to have anything that can stand up on a hovercraft base. There are limits to things like that, as there are limits to feasible engineering (Such as with the mega-dreadnought project from a while back).

4.

The mechs with hovercraft mobility bases, which are known as "Scouts" from this point on, will only have two Vulcan chain guns, and a heat-seeking missile launcher usually found in the Bradley Linebacker IFV.

The real Vulcan Anti-Aircraft System consists of non-penetrating explosive 20mm rounds which run out of ammunition as soon as you can say fire. TOW missiles are somewhat feasible, but two Vulcan cannons is ridiculous...

The bipedal "Soldier" variants will have dual 30mm airburst grenade launchers with a laserguided missile.

That should be the only alright thing here.

Only the "Sniper" variant will have a larger, probably somewhere in the 50-60mm range cannon, equipped with long-range optics, with a lower mobility base and smaller cockpit to make up for the loss in height thanks to the higher caliber of weaponry.

That could possibly fall over when it fires, unless it's using treads, making it a standing, high profile tank with light armor.

Then, there's the "Defender" variant, which is on a quadripedal mobility base, has heavy armor, and carries three rocket pods similar to the ones found on attack helicopters, like the Apache. The Chobham armor that was on the Sniper in the first test will not be found on the normal Sniper variant, replaced with normal tank armor like the kind found on the T-80, due to if you're seen as a Sniper, you're as good as dead anyways. The Chobham will only be on the Defender, with multiple layers.

That is simply insane.
1. You need to adapt Hellfire missiles for ground use. After that, the use of TWELVE laser guided missiles on a single chassis would be insane, and completely useless because you can't designate anything beyond ground visual range.
2. Do you plan on all of these having armor comparable to T-80s? That's nuts. They'll be so incredibly overmassed that their little spindly chassis will simply collapse. You can't just pack shit on like crazy, and this is not 2400. Earth 2150? Sure. CCW2, set in 2016? Hell no.

5. And going back to that little bit in #2, where will the intakes be? What stops them from sucking enough sand up to explode?

6. Well that's ultra-expensive. The F-22's production costs will be between $120 and 150 million, depending on the year produced and the costs associated with closeout of production. With all the new tech being developed, you can go ahead and triple the development cost of the Raptor and quadruple the development time, that is, unless you take your project team and lock them up under the threat of death as a tribute to Stalinism. It's going to be very, very, very, very expensive.

7. Each variant costs more money. Keep the pursestrings in mind. Also a year seems a bit infeasible to me, make it three. It took the US ten years to get the F-22 off the production lines.

8. 50mph?! Hell no. The fastest tanks can go that fast, and they're not incredibly heavy. Think 30. No faster than 30. It's an ungainly chassis put on top of tank treads with a turbine engine which probably doesn't want to be there. Due to the overall structure, 50mph would be absolutely insane. 80mph is nuts for any kind of hovercraft vehicle. Check the maximum speed of an LCAC on land.

And don't pull things from the website. That game is probably set in 2200, CCW2 is set in 2016. This is ubertech at its finest, but it was allowed apparently...
Now I'm going to go play with my spaceships and flying aircraft carriers.

[Paladin58]

Actually, it takes place in an alternate version of the current world. The war that consumes the game takes place around two months ago, actually. And, never mind about the price of each unit. I'd say it's around $150 million per unit.
And, now rebuttals to your answers:

1. Who said that these things would always be on the move. There's no problem if their constant movement takes up that much fuel. And, would you rather I use E-85 gasoline? They can go idle, when not on the move. It's not like I'll have them patrolling everywhere. That's a tank's job.

2. About the heaviness of the HOUNDs, the lightest ones are inevitably the Scouts, weighing about as much as an M1 Abrams. The actual hovercraft mobility base is integrated with the Cockpit, and same for the propulsion jet. The only thing will be the Vulcans are now going to be changed to miniguns similar to the ones found on Blackhawks, with AP rounds. Thanks for correcting me on that.

3. The HOUND with the hovercraft mobility base will not be nearly as heavy or as tall as the others, so there shouldn't be much of a problem. And, all this could be done right now. Not used, or implemented, but it could be done. Noone just thought outside of the box during the 90's, when all of the current MBT's ('cept for the Abrams) were being thought up and improved upon.

4. The TOW missiles will stay, the Vulcans are changed to regular miniguns. I was thinking of going 40mm on the 'nade launchers, so that should be fine. The Sniper is actually on tank treads, sort of like a little bit larger tank than the T-90 with three long-range 55mm cannons to snipe enemies from a distance. And, I know it's insane for the Defender to be the way it is, but if whatever it's firing at is fast enough, then it can avoid the missiles, which are unguided. Again, lowering the cheapness a bit. I don't feel like complete ownage there. All I want is scatter missile barrages. And, did I say the thickness of the armor? I said it was tank armor, similar to the T-80 armor. Did I say whether the composition was similar, or thickness? You guessed thickness, but were you right?

5. Of course, I didn't get into the details, because I figured it would bore some people. Well, here we go. The Exhaust ports are near the rear for all the HOUNDs, and there is exhaust fans in the ports to keep dust and sand from clogging the vents by blowing it out the other way. Oh, yeah. And filters.

6. Already said that the actual price was above, as I don't like to think that high... And, with the development time of things usually cut down during war time, you could call that not that much development, but I'll keep the development costs around there. I guess it's a good thing that I haven't done much spending militarily, up to sending my forces overseas and building the uber-coastal defense system...

7. Yet again, it's a good thing that I haven't done much military spending up to now. And, again, since this is wartime, there is pressure to get it up and running NOW, like what happened when the Manhattan Project was being done. I'll make it two for the concept deployment, then seven years after CCW1 will be when they go into service.

8. Obviously, you don't realize what I was talking about there. The bipedal variant, which is faster than the tank, is the one that goes around 55-60, because it has lighter weaponry, and a faster mode of movement. A lot faster than the treaded Sniper variant, which goes around 40 mph, and a hell of a lot faster than the Defender, which only goes 15. And, are there any LCAC's you know that have jet turbines as the propulsion?

Again, I'll say it again. The game takes place in an alternate timeline, where WWIII happened in the late 1980's, and the ACV's, of which are my HOUNDs, were around before that. In fact, the main war of the game begins around two months ago. The problem is that current engineers aren't thinking outside the box, which leads to endless tank designs and no actual trying to make a mech into reality. Rebuttal?

[MSpencer]

All you're doing is taking my valid, legitimate points and putting up a smokescreen.
I was trying to help you not make it complete ubertech. You have to realize that's a game, and it's alternate reality, and no matter what credentials they think they have from some artistic design college, they don't know the first thing about how that might work.
The technology is not there, and will not be for a hundred years. I just give up, one way or another, you're not going to listen to reason. You're going to get your ubertech just because you can make one more post than I can without going insane. I'm not even going to bother repeating myself.

[Paladin58]

Well, as you noticed, I have slowly reduced the ubertech-ness from what it was, into something a little more possible. Now, I know for a fact that the actual Hounds wouldn't be possible in today's world, because they are too large, too impractical in today's wars. So, instead I went with the smaller, more practical ones possible in today's world. Even though, ACV's could still own battalions of tanks, if RP'd right, I'd think they're still possible to build in today's world, if someone tried. Tell me, do you think a four-story monstrosity, of which my HOUNDs were originally going to be, is less uber-tech than the twenty-foot tall ACV, which my HOUNDs are now?

Edited by Nology5890, 29 July 2006 - 07:40 PM.