26 replies to this topic

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

This topic is for research and information that can be used to help design and plan the History Mod.
For this one we need some info on Greece.
All research should have sources listed.

[Neutron4ever]

Leonidas of Sparta
He led the 300 Spartans and several other Greek warriors into battle against the Persians at Thermopylae
Source: Wikipedia

[Nertea]

If you make the spartans like the spartans in 300 I will set fire to your feet.

[Gfire]

I'll give you an Indian Burn so bad your feet will be on fire before Netea even gets to you.

I've been dying to say that since I saw it yesterday.

I will have a look at some Greek stuff if I get a chance.

[Taralom]

Greek military mainly consisted of Hoplites. The people called upon to serve had to pay for their own armour and weapons, but a minimum of armour and weapons existed.

Thus, you can choose to make greek infantry quite cheap, but that wouldn't fit with the fact that the greeks had the best army in the world (before the romans came) and thus should have expensive units to compensate their strength.

[Lauri]

Just make it "Poor Warriors" with low attack and armor, "Rich Warriors" with much better stats, and some in between them

[Gfire]

Hoplites generally carried spears. This sorta throws off the standard sword-based armies and sword>spear/pike in BFME. I think that Hoplite Spearmen woudl be the most used unit for Greece. This causes a problem, because in BFME, the spears are "specialists" weak against everything but cavalry. In actual history, this doesn't really make a lot of sense. Many armies actually used spears and pikes to best swordsmen. It actually worked.

I think the unit balance needs a new system.

[Elvenlord]

It's that way in the game mostly because of armorsets. It won't be hard to change that.

[Lauri]

There's a very easy way to deal with that issue

Use the Specialist weapon type for Pikemen, which really are against horses (thus infantry are resistant, I assume)
And for spears to counter infantry, just use Uruk damage, since you probably won't have other uses for it..
Then, on armors you can set them weak against either of them, both or none...

[Gfire]

I've also thought of using some Pierce damage for spears. This makes some sense, since the armor resistance to an arrow would be similar to that of a spear. There are some problems, though. It would work better without Horse Shield Upgrades.

[mike_]

'Several other' warriors, Neut? Try several thousand slave-warriors, Athenians, and others plucked off the road en route to the Hot Gates..

[mike_]

Don't do this:
http://pspmedia.ign...._1145558975.jpg

Do do this:
http://www.spartanwa...ek_Hoplites.jpg
http://darkwing.uore...nx-improved.jpg

And you'll be okay.

[Neutron4ever]

For the first pick of the "Do This" sections, the Roma Surrectum mod made some pretty nice skins for Rome: Total War
Might not look EXACTLY the same, but it's pretty good...

[Lauri]

Hate that shield...

[Neutron4ever]

Well...it could anger the enemy troops into charging carelessly
I guess they may find it as an insult

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

How about this for damage types

Pierce - Arrows
Uruk - Hoplite/Spear
Slash - Sword
Specialist - Pike
Club - Hammer/Club style units
Crush - Cavalry
Hero Ranged - Axe
Hero - Hero

These are mostly the same as BFME with some new damage types thrown in.
We don't really need Hero_Ranged we can just use Hero for that.

[Gfire]

How about Chop for axe? BFME2 has that, doesn't it?

There's also Cavalry and Cavalry-Ranged.

[The 10th Rider]

Oh, I thought of something we really need to do, the Greeks each had different crests on there shields, so why not make skinning variants for that? it wouldn't be hard to do and we could throw in some fun designs and even some Easter eggs like the Triforce, even Google does that (though we shouldn't put anything stupid, like a UFO).

[Gfire]

The shields could probably have their own skin file, like the Gondor soldier shield. This way, a bunch of randomized shields can be produced with a few random skins for the rest of the unit - resulting in even more possibilities.

[Crusard]

How about this for damage types

Pierce - Arrows
Uruk - Hoplite/Spear
Slash - Sword
Specialist - Pike
Club - Hammer/Club style units
Crush - Cavalry
Hero Ranged - Axe
Hero - Hero

Reads good to me

However, I think Hoplites should have, rather than extra damage, some extra defense vs infantry (slash damage), and vs archers too if they have shields. This is more accurate in my opinion, since phalanxes are a defensive formation in nature.
Too much defense could slow down gameplay, however, so it would have to be a proper balance, say 75% more defense, 25% more damage against Infantry.

Also the hoplites should have a very slow turning speed (TurnTime in Locomotor) and a huge damage from flanking (FlankedPenalty ArmorSet)

This makes hoplites work just how they would in real life (Or RTW at least ), while it doesn't break BFME's gameplay.

ps: Are we offtopic?

Edited by Crusard, 11 May 2009 - 12:49 AM.