13 replies to this topic

[ThatDeeBloke]

First this is difficult for me to be writing, i already know half the flack that will be received in the first responses and have had this conversation before, requiring a great deal of time to speak to rebottles and quote sources to eventually end up without contestation to the facts. And i dont have the effort in me to debate this, i generally remove myself from forums due to the snippy and snarky way in which most of their users operate. Though after reading forums here and the casual conversation between users ive come to the conclusion this is at least a group that will discuss things cavalry without accusations of intelligence and short comings of the penis.



I do not see discussion leading to or debate about the existence of the MC-80 Liberty, and MC-80 Reef Home Classes of starship in these forums. That fact alone is one that gives me hope. So many sources on the internet bugger this up good. Assigning titles like pear shaped/wingless winged or big brother type silliness. The Reef Home class, was the first warship modified from the not so standardized MC-80 Passenger liners, and better than a dozen of these took part in the battle of Endor. Shortly before endor, the same MC-80 class star liners were turned war machine in the form smaller number by comparison to the Reef Home class in the form of Liberty Class cruisers. ( This is largely due to just not starting the winged variant builds till nearly the time of endor. In the Films we only see two shots. The Liberty herself eats death star laser. And the Maria flies alongside a Reef Home Class at the head of the point blank offensive against the Star Destroyers )We arrive with these names by simple Naval Tradition. That the first ship of a design to be christened became the class designation for all of that type. Though they are quoted by most every source as being nearly identical, some folks still bugger it up claiming different payloads and shield or armor, even fighter capacity. Sure-every Moncal Cruiser was a work of art made without a pre-set blue print. But they were all ( at the this point! ) of the MC-80 passenger liner conversions at the time Endor was fought. And of course the MC-80 passenger liners were still all remarkably similar. Or they would not carry the same alpha numeric designation in their design. The reality is the Reef home class on its own did not offer enough visual variety in the climactic battle scenes of Return of the Jedi, and the original model in which the MC-80 Reef Home class was created got a nose job. So they turned her on her back, removed an engine nozel added a smaller tail on the underside and plastered wings on. Then adding a new overall painting job and dubbing her the MC-80 Liberty Class, named after the first attempts operational call sign. Making it a no Duh observation that combat wise they are the same vessel, due to the actual origin of the model. All of this, the creators of this mod already know. You Sirs! Deserve cookies and cake. You made two diferent models! You didn't make one " better " than another. And you did not attach felonious A.B. Winged,Wingless, Advanced/maneuverable type nonsense on them.

Here is where i stop rambling and make my request of you. Can we have the MC-80a, and the MC-80b versions added? The Mc-80a Chatnoir class was created post Endor. And after that the MC-80b Mon Remonda. Conflicting sources of how they are armed, their proper scale, and the numbers of their employment exist. One of the major sources for this is the x wing series snafu of adding the MC-80a in a pre Yavin timeline and then gooning the top front, and rear bottom engine numbers and positions. But your clearly well versed enough to get past that due to the research and proper implementation you have done with the first two MC-80 Variants in your mod. Even if you find that balancing is a concern and can not give the Mon Remonda for instance its proper fire power. I do believe i speak for us all when i say more Capital ship classes of varied shape and texture in a battle is just cool for lack of a better word. The imperials have a wide selection, and they have superior battle cruisers not that im complaining. I would greatly enjoy taking in a wider variety of MonCal vessels in a republic fleet to combat them.

Here is where i believe i have buttered you up enough to point out a flaw without stirring a defensive response. Your MC-120 as you well know is the home one model, by size engine alignment and body contours. I state this as the Home One type, once again observing proper Naval tradition in naming the first ship of a class, the class designation for all others like it. There were in fact three of this Home One design and all three did in fact take part in endor. ( Not interested in debating that point in this thread please. Would be happy to compare notes and sources in another. I would prefer to keep this thread focused on the game addition itself. ) The Home One, The Independence, and the Defiance. Once again X wing series goons this up.. But only partially. Stating Admiral Ackbar was using the Independence as his flag ship at Endor. As far as the Film is concerned this is utterly incorrect. But expanded universe such as Truce at Bakura and other sources. Tell us that the assault on the Super Star Destroyer, Executer took a fair amount of itme and maneuvering. In which Home One. The MC-80 Liberty Class Cruiser, Maria and Home One Class Battle cruiser, Independence attacked co-ordianted and with impunity. Along with a quartet of MC-80 Reef Home class cruisers they beat the tar out of the Executer bring'ing down the shields briefly, allowing for the generators to be knocked out, allowing for Green Leader to suicide ram his A wing into the bridge thus allowing it to succumb to gravity before an alternate bridge can re-establish control fo the ship is capable to save it from diving into the Death Star II. ( All of this utter luck other than the combined assault to bring her shields down and then give an order to call for a right pounding by all ships which Ackbar did ) And before the task of now beating all of that armor and super structure apart occurs the lucky events unfold.


Here is where i state my case. I have never read of an MC-120 before. The Defiance named MC-90 and thus its referred class came about, and after that the strident and viscount star defenders. But the alpha numeric naming system was abandoned. None of these looked like your MC-120 or functioned like her. Im sure reason went behind the alpha numeric naming that to my knowledge never actually existed. But - Home One, was an MC-85 Home One Class, Battleship. Her sister ships being the MC-85 Defiance, and Independence Battle Cruisers. These are the physically largest MonCal Vessels constructed. And the only ones of their kind. Back to the battle- I mentioned xwing series being wrong, in their mop up level where you fight in endor and blow up destroyers and see the MC-85 Battle Cruiser Independence - and it is claimed to be Ackbars Command ship is only half wrong - is still half right. That coordinated gang up on Executer left Home One in bad shape and nearly Immobile yet operational. At the point of limping out clear of the Death Star II in to be clear of the blast radius. Ackbar in fact changes his flag to the more operational and at this point more battle ready sister ship- the MC-85 Home One class battle cruiser, Independence. And proceeds to mop up on the Star Destroyers who did not obey the Chimeras retreat Order by acting Captain Pelleon after the loss of Executer and Death Star II ( in fact one Grand admiral got his butt off the death star II before she blew, made it to his Star Destroyer and tried to organize a counter attack, but by this point Pelleons order had largely been headed to. He faught on for a solid two hours, was captured and executed. )

EvilJedi you are welcome to put a seal of approval on this post! As we both took part of a long forum discussion in 2004 of the events and participants of the battle of endor on the force.net forums. As well as our time with this games forerunner Star Wars Rebellion! in swrebellion.com To which this mod resembles the best parts of.

Ive been up all night and i will not be proofing this.. i apologize if some sentences come off to resemble klingon or some other lesser sci fi banter. I hope i have presented my case well and that These minor changes to the 120's naming are implemented. And with greater luck, you see fit to share with us the MC-80A/B varients even if they do not fill a balancing gap, aAnd just become another pretty dress on the MC-80 line. I am and have been an ardent fan of the MonCal designs, just seeing properly represented versions of the two classes we saw in the film is a rare occurrence in a game and even a mod. I am greatly pleased to be able to bring them into battle together as it allready stands.

DeLos ( That Dee Bloke ? )

[Tropical Bob]

We do technically have MC80a's and b's. We just don't have the Mon Remonda model as them. A large part of this mod is researching/upgrading. So both the Liberty and Reef Home MC80 lines advance further into the MC80a and b territory. They're going to differ slightly, as a result of PR's views on a greater degree of specialization as the ship is upgraded more.

You'll have to wait for PR to come around to get info on the Home One though.

[Invadious]

The imperials have a wide selection, and they have superior battle cruisers not that im complaining. I would greatly enjoy taking in a wider variety of MonCal vessels in a republic fleet to combat them.

I agree, I think you mentioned it already PR, but I think adding a MC90 should be very high priority. The capital-class ships of the Empire completely dominate the rebel counterparts.

[Casen]

The MC-120 did confuse me because I realized it didn't really exist, the name that is. Then I realized it was just some name we gave to the Home One-Type.

Also honestly the MC80B should be added as a separate ship; it would be good because it would give the New Republic good forward fire power. The MC80B has it's guns facing forward, making it essentially the Star Destroyer of Mon Cal Ships. I find the lack of precision in the Rebel/New Republic Arsenal when it comes to cruisers annoying, as I can't focus all/most guns to bare on an enemy like I can with Star Destroyers. The Liberty's and Reef Home's just don't have good focused fire power. Even the Home One-Type isn't as good as it should be for it's size.

http://starwars.wiki...0B_Star_Cruiser

The MC80B had a roughly similar look to earlier models, but optimized the amount of guns available for a frontal assault by positioning them in forward-facing clusters around the ship.

The reason I think it should be a different ship rather than an upgrade is because the layout is completely different of it's weapons; and even if we upgrade the model as a replacement having the weapons in the same place (spread out all over) would negate the advantages.

I mean I suppose having the guns spread out all over for the Liberty and Reef Home types has it's advantages, as it negates the blind spots that Star Destroyers have, but it's a massive trade-off that in some cases isn't worth it.

The MC90 couldn't hurt to be added, though it doesn't state it has the forward firing gun advantages of the MC80B, yet states it's an "upgrade".

So I dunno.

Edited by Kacen, 15 September 2009 - 11:39 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Thanks for posting (and registering). Anyone with your level of technical knowledge is more than welcome here. I've never really gotten into the discussions at TFN (probably because I've been modding since Dark Forces), but I love hearing what ship junkies think of the mod. And don't worry about flaming; I simply won't tolerate it.

I've always been biased towards G-canon, which seems like no-brainer given that it's trump, but that really hasn't been the case historically. It bothers me when I see major elements of the films go completely undeveloped in the EU - or worse, fouled up. Not wanting to wait for official rectification (which may never happen), I've taken it upon myself to give some of these things new life in the mod, whether it's Tagge or the Reef Home.

Your analysis of the Battle of Endor is, as far as I can tell, spot on. I'd not heard the bit about Home One being critically damaged and Ackbar transferring his flag to the Independence mid-battle, but it makes sense as a retcon given the point-blank attack on the Executor and works for me, assuming you can drydock it for the following year or so to make repairs. And, of course, the Reef Home-class was most numerous of all Mon Calamari starships seen on film, yet the EU can't even agree on a name for it.

Now, this is the part where you're probably going to want to rescind the cookies and cake: I'm giving the Reef Home and Independence a makeover for the next version, just slightly. Let me back up first.

Yes, we are a simulator and I take the authenticity of the mod very seriously, but we're also a game - you can think of it as the odd hybrid of serious and entertainment gaming. What we aren't is Wookieepedia. I won't blindly follow canon if it doesn't justify itself; if something doesn't make sense, it'll be rewritten. Mon Calamari cruisers have been so utterly failed by the EU that they need a fresh start. If you want proof of this, look no further than here.

I'm sure you're familiar with the size and weapon debates surrounding Home One. The Reef Home type, on the other hand, has none of this because it literally does not exist in the EU. Since WEG first designated the ships "MC80" and gave them stats in RASB almost 20 years ago, everyone else has been afraid to contradict it - to the point of insanity (1200-meter Home One). This is in stark contrast to their stats for the Imperial-class, which have clearly been proven wrong based on the ILM models. For a lack of external hardware and status quo mentality at Lucas Licensing (see Saga SotG's entry on them), the Mon Calamari ships are left to suffer.

I'll be the first to admit that the Liberty/Reef Home/Independence line in the current version of PR is not good (at least to my standards): they have lazy rigging and uninspired upgrades. That has since changed from the bottom up, as the topic so helpfully alludes to.

Per Kuari Princess, I retrospected the Valiant-class MC40 (named for this) into a luxury liner. Being smaller in volume (comparable to the C-3), the Ardent-class MC30 (named for all three of these, since there are no named examples of a MC30... and prior to this being named, I might add) became a passenger liner. That left the Liberty MC80 and Independence MC120 to be star liners, with the Reef Home MC80 left out for redundancy.

That was v1.1. But it was a mistake to assume they all should be liners, not to mention leaving the Reef Home ambiguous. In the next release, only the Liberty-class will have the star liner designation. The original Reef Home will be reinvented as a "star surveyor" - a self-reliant deep space survey vessel - and the Independence will be a "star explorer" - an all-in-one colony ship packed full of transports - with their successors upgrading along those lines. These are nods to the other pre-Empire purpose of Mon Calamari Shipyards: expansionism (see TES page 208). In gameplay terms, the Alliance Reef Home will get capital-scale sensor jamming and replaces the old turboions with heavy turbolasers to serve in a dedicated anti-capital role (like the Tector), while the Independence will be a super-carrier with lots of transports (to compete with the Imperial). The Liberty remains as it's always been since WEG... but there's nothing wrong with that for the Liberty.

About the MC120, yeah, I invented that designation for the Independence, so that's probably why you've never heard of it. The point is, it's not a MC80 at all. Period. Not even close. Every new source that says so is nauseating. There are no similarities between it and the Liberty-type MC80 that would justify classifying them together. The number itself is arbitrary - I picked MC120 because it was a nice multiple in the known line of MC30, 40, 80, and 90 (I agree with Saxton in that they signify a tonnage class) - what matters is that it's different. "MC85", by the way, is no more or less legitimate (other than it being smaller tonnage than the MC90, unless you have an alternative explanation); that number is pure fanon as well.

Finally, I picked "Independence" over "Home One" as the class name for consistency: everything else is either named after virtues or cities on Dac. As far as I know, there is no city known as Home One. Besides that, the Independence was, to date, known to be around before the Home One, which puts it in line for the name by naval tradition, despite what Saxton claims (this time).

[Casen]

I'll be the first to admit that the Liberty/Reef Home/Independence line in the current version of PR is not good (at least to my standards): they have lazy rigging and uninspired upgrades. That has since changed from the bottom up, as the topic so helpfully alludes to.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but specifically I've noticed on those three ships the turbolasers/turboions fire...well, different from any other ship's lasers.

Instead of having lots of guns spread out it looks more like the ships have 4/6/8 guns around the hull but to make up for it they just fire them rapid fire in streams like some sort of automatic turbolaser...it looks quite bizarre, especially when you contrast it to all other ships.

[Invadious]

Instead of having lots of guns spread out it looks more like the ships have 4/6/8 guns around the hull but to make up for it they just fire them rapid fire in streams like some sort of automatic turbolaser...it looks quite bizarre, especially when you contrast it to all other ships.

Yeah, the ships have like 8 bones, where the hardpoints are added on so they rapid fire to make up for the few bones. So the Mon Calamari ships need more bones, it's something I already reported after v1.0. But PR is going to add more for v1.2 so it will look a lot better .

Edited by Invadious, 16 September 2009 - 02:29 PM.

[ThatDeeBloke]

I do not mean to post this as an argumentative and hope it does not appear that way. My original posting was in concern to a request which is in the third portion of this post. I hope i am not alone in this request and would encourage anyone else who feels the same to weigh in.





As to the MC-120 Independence, the logic behind its alpha numeric naming is well thought out. I had previously read the thread on the concept of naming based on tonnage. I also thought it creative and well derived as an original observation. My designation as the MC-85 Home One class is based almost soul on its original purpose and subsequent militarization being before one project and after another has begun. I took a fair portion of yesterdays free time to read your links and to try and locate the story of Home One origins. But for the life of me i can not. Home one and two sister ships were in dockyard and under construction at the time of Dak's Imperial Woes. The now common enough and highLY successful line of individually built passenger liners had given a vast amount of wealth to begin the construction of the " Home Class? " trio. These ships were described as nearly three times the size of the Galaxy Class Luxury Star Liners previously built( Our civilian MC-80 passenger liners to which retrofits into Reef Home, Liberty, and Chatnoir were sprung ). Their purpose was to be a home away from home on a voyage beyond the outer rim into unknown space to settle and colonize new worlds, Carrying all that is needed to do so with them on the way, as the Moncal peoples were looking to escape the troubles of the core worlds. It also noted that Home One kept her civilian designation as her wartime designation. As Moncal freedom was one again at hand the unwished trio of ships were from that point on completed as warships. During that time the Wingless which we have derived as MC-80 Reefhome cruisers were built en mass. When Home One was operational there were 13 converted star liners protecting the home world from future imperial aggression. As to Home one Or Independence being built first? I have no definitive answer.









As to Home One being another MC-80 and 1200 meters? Poppycock i fully concur. That opinion is in my mind, derived from poor viewing of Return of the Jedi. When we see them for the first time in sullest. We get a sweet rear view of two wingless cruisers. With different diameters, and vary different engine alignment. Anyone quoting Home One as just another MC-80 would tell you there was a winged and wingless cruiser in ROTJ. Not three distinctly separate classes. As she is clearly not an MC-80 but built before and inferior in battle by comparison to an MC-90 i would place her smack in the center of that alpha numeric specification.

Ships built after what we see in the final film, are the MC-80a with little time wasted. And after that the MC-80b. Interesting to note the A was also a retrofit of the same base star liner series as the Liberty and Reef Home classes. While the B was a purpose built warship to engage and destroy the Imperator Class Star Destroyers from its inception on paper. It followed on an enhancement present in the MC-80 Liberty class, that is the extra structure left and right of the ship allowing for the weapons to have a shared forward firing arc and not being forced to broadside with a partial payload like the Reef home and MC-80 a Chatnoir class's. As well as its superior shield and weapon systems. (That more time consuming overhaul with the liberty is why i reason there were fewer of them in number compared to the Reef home.)

As to the Chatnoir it was in x wing vrs tie fighter first was it not? When ever ive seen stats for these ships only the B has an advanced weapon count compared to the other three. Even though source by source the four ships vary - when they are all four listed in any given source. The Liberty and ReefHomeare normally listed ( winged and wingless ) as well as the Mc-80a Chatnoir in having identical firepower shield and hull. ( Maybe the Chatnoir turned out to be alot cheaper than the other two, does anyone know the storyline reasoning behind it coming about? ) So i figure to agree with the only place i had seen the MC-85 Battleship series listing, as logical due to both the timeline of construction. And the notoriety of the ships capability. Being above the 80's but below the 90's ( as i imagine Ackbar agrees having upgraded to an MC-90 as his flag ship when first available to do so ) But in closing your logic and reasoning is pretty admirable for the MC-120 Independence classification. I find nothing that can decisively dispute it, and its as good a theory to operate with as any. For what its worth you have my full support in this regard even though it is un asked.









The True purpose of my original post was to request the inclusion of the MC-80a Chatnoir class, and the MC-80b Mon Remonda class cruisers. Pertaining to the cookies and cake, they remain on the table. I have been playing your mod since the fighter addon was released. I have lived in several countries and out of necessity became quite a fantastic cook. But my baked goods.. Leave much to be desired. And with two days having passed, i would not eat those cookies anyways.
You mentioned the future evolution of your MC-80 Reef Home to play a role similar to the Tector. It did not sound as if you are greatly changing her battle performance, which would be a shame as she is practically a Liberty Class by all rights. As to a balance gap being filled and a Rebel Capital ship hunter/killer role, isn't the MC-80b Mon Remonda ideal for that vary purpose? I would ask you consider that trade. I greatly enjoy taking in my MC-80's and republic star destroyers to conquer the well defended worlds. But even then, multiple Liberty and Reef home on the screen does limit the variety.. Should you see fit to add the Chatnoir in the mix, even if all three are militarily the same in game play. The multitude of models would greatly enhance my gaming experience and enjoyment. I am assuming that will be greatly shared by others( not to imply i am truly left wanting, as the GFFA campaigns have been completed numerous times on my end. ) With Ackbar and a Mon Remonda as the big guns in that arrangement i would truly be ecstatic. And feeling the rebel purge of imperial space like no other star wars game has been capable of delivering.





Respectfully, DeLos

[Tropical Bob]

Well there is a bit of story scripting that can make for a back and forth construction of ship appearances. (Building MC80 type 1 swaps out the build icon with that of MC80 type 2, building type 2 swaps out the icon with that of type 1, rinse and repeat)

The problem with adding new ships into PR is that the team has no dedicated modeler, so they're forced to rely on models from other sources. If one's not available, the unit can't be added.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 17 September 2009 - 06:08 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

I do not mean to post this as an argumentative and hope it does not appear that way.

A little friendly debate isn't so bad . But no, I didn't find it argumentative; I think I just tend to structure my posts as essays for coherence. You'll pardon my conviction if it doesn't translate so well to the internet.

Their purpose was to be a home away from home on a voyage beyond the outer rim into unknown space to settle and colonize new worlds, Carrying all that is needed to do so with them on the way, as the Moncal peoples were looking to escape the troubles of the core worlds. It also noted that Home One kept her civilian designation as her wartime designation.

Well said. That's probably the best account I've read as to the reasoning behind Home One's name (that callsign business never really sat well with me).

As to Home One being another MC-80 and 1200 meters? Poppycock i fully concur. That opinion is in my mind, derived from poor viewing of Return of the Jedi.

RotJ novelization unambiguously states that it's both the largest and most advanced Rebel starship present at Sullust. Given that the novelizations are based on (and remain faithful to) insider knowledge from the films, I'd say that's the best statement we have - with video evidence in support - concerning their G-canon designation. (I believe the movie novels are technically C-canon, but anything that has GL's close support, albeit not direct involvement, should probably be thought of at least as T-canon.)

I'd also propose another theory for the size misconception - bear with me though, as I haven't traced every source. I'm fairly certain RASB was the first to mention "MC80" in 1990 (it's actually sitting on the desk in front of me). However, it does not describe any of the Mon Calamari starships seen at Endor, but a new design entirely (note, this isn't even referred to as a MC80a at this point). A few authors get overzealous with the part about all MC ships being unique and you conceivably end up with all Mon Calamari designs (of the time) bearing MC80, and thus the 1200 meters of the RASB stats box.

As she is clearly not an MC-80 but built before and inferior in battle by comparison to an MC-90 i would place her smack in the center of that alpha numeric specification.

An interpolation of MC80 and 90... that makes enough sense. I'd seen MC85 on some other sites, so I didn't know where it came from.

Ships built after what we see in the final film, are the MC-80a with little time wasted.

That would make good sense in an ideal universe, but you'd have to ignore it showing up in X-wing games and some Rebellion-era sourcebooks. All the nonsense surrounding the alphanumeric ratings - I guess that's what you'd call them, since they lack the singularity of a class and the designation is "star cruiser" - has led me to just scrap the whole system and reinvent it. As I mentioned before, I've considered the MC number to be an indication of tonnage, while the appended letters denote upgrade level. Under this system, if you refer to the designs by class name, you can explain the MC80 model as the pre-Endor iteration of the later MC80a of the same line. Capitalization, which has historically been inconsistent, is also made irrelevant.

As to the Chatnoir it was in x wing vrs tie fighter first was it not?

I'm not aware of there ever being a ship in any of the games that actually borne the name Chatnoir. I believe it's just common fanon.

So i figure to agree with the only place i had seen the MC-85 Battleship series listing, as logical due to both the timeline of construction. And the notoriety of the ships capability. Being above the 80's but below the 90's ( as i imagine Ackbar agrees having upgraded to an MC-90 as his flag ship when first available to do so )

This I cannot explain with tangibles. Short of underpowering the Independence-class, there's no way the stats can be hacked to make the Defiance anything but a downgrade for Ackbar. By my account, the Defiance has, in abstract terms, 10160 hitpoints and 993.6 DPS versus 21280 hitpoints and 1440 DPS for the Independence. Of course, taken per keel meter, the Defiance would win out. I just don't think it's reasonable to assume that a 1255-meter ship could directly overpower a 3800-meter one with only a few years worth of technological improvements.

The True purpose of my original post was to request the inclusion of the MC-80a Chatnoir class, and the MC-80b Mon Remonda class cruisers.

Ah... yeah, that sort of got lost in all the length. It was hard enough for me to stay on topic and not ramble too much when attempting the reply, so by the time I wrote what I had, I just posted it.

Okay, so to address that point, none of those classes have been ruled out, but my priority was cleaning up the existing ones before adding more, which I'm just getting around to doing now. Everything hinges on the availability of models (and development time), but that probably won't be too much of a problem (this is probably cruel, but click here, if you dare).

I have been playing your mod since the fighter addon was released.

That might be the best cookie and/or cake we could get.

You mentioned the future evolution of your MC-80 Reef Home to play a role similar to the Tector. It did not sound as if you are greatly changing her battle performance, which would be a shame as she is practically a Liberty Class by all rights.

Hmm... I guess I've always thought of those two as sister classes, opposed to one being newer or better than the other. My justification on the Reef Home mirroring the Tector's role is because of the fact that it has no conventional hangar bays (supposedly making the hull sturdier on average by eliminating weak points) and a narrower profile than the Liberty (creating relatively stronger shields on the same equipment by reducing surface area). The armament is conjecture, but since it doesn't really have an official one, I think it makes for good gameplay.

IMO, it would make sense for the Mon Calamari/Quarren to look at Imperial warships and sort of mimic their form and function when deciding how to upgrade their civilian fleet, since those are the ones they would be fighting. After these changes, the Reef Home will specifically be anti-capital, the Independence will specifically be supercarrier, and the Liberty will be a general-purpose cross between the two.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have six different MC capitals as much as anyone. But at the same time, they really all have to serve a distinct role in order for me to justify adding them to the game. The bigger and more complex the ship, the longer it takes to develop (the Recusant has been the worst, but almost perhaps the most rewarding... I've probably dropped at least 72 hours into that one) and, realistically, I don't have unlimited time.

The problem with adding new ships into PR is that the team has no dedicated modeler, so they're forced to rely on models from other sources. If one's not available, the unit can't be added.

Yes, that's normally a problem, but these are fairly mainstream ships in the Mon Remonda and Defiance. I at least have a model for both, although I'm not sure what shape they're in (hopefully at least on par with our others). The only good reason they're not already in the game is more related to the first part about not having a modeler - I wear so many hats that development time across the board is spread thin, so if I'm working on something like heroes for a month, there's not much progress being made elsewhere, save for campaigns and testing. Besides that, it's just a matter of prioritization, and my top concern before too many new units are added is to fix the existing problems, such as the Immobilizer line and of course the star bases (not to mention land, AI, etc.).

[ThatDeeBloke]

We could go on to have another half dozen exchanges with the same amount of length as we already have, and i would have been glad to. But it seems the entire subject is derailed and hijacked with one that, while interesting to read, should be in the general discussion forum. Not the community suggestions where i post in answer to the question " Would would you like to see in PR? " I dont mean to be shitty about it, but this is another reason i despise the forum setting of communication. And forums are always used in the same regard- Like you i also prefer to write on subjects with inconsistent data and sources as an essay. With well presented fact, as much of the original source material as possible and then make a statement that is in line with those facts. In absence of that- state the best logical conclusion possible. But were talking about a line of ships where we can make factual conclusions and there is no need for a hypothetical one. Should you care to continue the conversation, i would as well. There is also a large absence of any other interest and support of this request. I can be reached at DEWillmore@msn.com. If you already have these things worked out for 2.0 then i have been making requests with supporting understandings of them as a moot statement to begin with.




Either way, i do look forward to your next installment.

DeLos

[Phoenix Rising]

That's my fault for not moderating well enough. I guess that why the professional community managers are never the ones to handle that stuff. At any rate, the topic's been split.

You'll understand if I can't prudently do this in a private in a private conversation - as necessary as the forums are, the fact is that my being on here, even for the benefit of untold hundreds, directly detracts from development time. If you never post again, it'll be a shame, but you can at least know that your request is under consideration... and if you can wait long enough, anything's possible .

[Kitkun]

There is also a large absence of any other interest and support of this request.

Just 'cause there's not anybody else posting on the topic, doesn't mean that there's no interest. I'd like to see those ships as well.

[Tropical Bob]

Ditto. I'm certainly interested in what's being discussed. I just don't know much at all about the MonCal ship lines, so I can't add input in either direction.