77 replies to this topic

[Zeta1127]

I was referring to the fact that the Tector-class, Strident-class, and New Class ships have been poorly visualized ; the Strident was so poorly described that the description could be interpreted as smaller than a Galactic-class Battle Carrier, and with the exception of the Nebula-class and Endurance-class, the other New Class ships don't look like they could be built on the same space-frames if we go by Cracken's Threat Dossier. You are all right, the Black Fleet Crisis would be a very small campaign, probably too small, though it might make a good tutorial, .

Edited by Zeta1127, 03 December 2010 - 07:39 PM.

[Ghostrider]

It's kinda hard to have a campaign when the enemy have only one planet.

Ok - Palaptine had Byss, but that was somewhat different. And a lot more scary.

[Tropical Bob]

It's kinda hard to have a campaign when the enemy have only one planet.

Ok - Palaptine had Byss, but that was somewhat different. And a lot more scary.

He also had Vjun, as well as heavy influence on certain ex-Imperial and/or currently Imperial worlds.

[Phoenix Rising]

There are enough worlds to work with in the Cluster, but not enough space to fit them in. Plus we'd have to add a Duskhan League faction and most of the action happened against Independents, with the NR just being there to police. I guess the bigger problem is that nobody did anything with New Class outside of BFC.

[Zeta1127]

That is a big disappointment to me, BFC was the only place that the New Class was depicted and fielded. They were some of the NR's best ships, but they have been relegated to the sidelines for the most part. The NJO was a golden opportunity to show them again! It is the same way with the Strident-class, while the Viscount-class has been well depicted, the Strident-class is a vague shell of a ship. I find it sad that every other KDY Star Destroyer for the most part has been well depicted except the Tector-class. Space is the biggest problem with the engine, it was clearly never meant to be used like you have, but you have made it work about as well as it could, particularly with the plan to spreading out the galaxy a bit in v1.2.

[Kaleb Graff]

We'll work on it. The sad part about the Black Fleet Crisis is that it's too small on a galactic scale to turn into a viable campaign.

You sure about that? If you set it up right, with plenty of deep-space battlegrounds, it could be really interesting. And nothing with a Super-class SD involved is minor.

Sure, the Koornacht Cluster was large if you include deep space, but even with that in consideration, the Cluster is still a small area in the great scheme of things. And I'm assuming that's what PR is meaning. Especially since, if I remember correctly, there were only one or two skirmishes between the New Republic and the Yevetha.

Have you read the books? There were several large fleet engagements, such as N'Zoth. It would have been even bigger if the SDs hadn't left.

There are enough worlds to work with in the Cluster, but not enough space to fit them in. Plus we'd have to add a Duskhan League faction and most of the action happened against Independents, with the NR just being there to police. I guess the bigger problem is that nobody did anything with New Class outside of BFC.

I guess, but all you would really need is the thrustships and D-types. Maybe it could be a what-if. What if the Imps hadn't jumped out, or something. And there was a mention in Hand of Thrawn, but I agree. BFC is my favorite from a military point of view, even if the forces are too small by a factor of five.

That is a big disappointment to me, BFC was the only place that the New Class was depicted and fielded. They were some of the NR's best ships, but they have been relegated to the sidelines for the most part. The NJO was a golden opportunity to show them again! It is the same way with the Strident-class, while the Viscount-class has been well depicted, the Strident-class is a vague shell of a ship. I find it sad that every other KDY Star Destroyer for the most part has been well depicted except the Tector-class. Space is the biggest problem with the engine, it was clearly never meant to be used like you have, but you have made it work about as well as it could, particularly with the plan to spreading out the galaxy a bit in v1.2.

I'm not so sure about the Strident. Are we even sure how big it is? Star Defender sounds like Repubic-speak for Star Dreadnaut, which is a large category. It might even be an improved Bulwark. But I definitely agree on the New Class.

[Zeta1127]

The Viscount-class Star Defender (a Mon Calamari design) and Strident-class Star Defender (a Corellian design) are the New Republic's answer to the likes of the Executor-class Star Dreadnought and other SSDs. Ironically, the BFC was the catalyst that finally got the development of the Star Defenders started, the NRDF was worried about the Intimidator(I want someone to tell what happened to it too, PR, Timothy Zahn is the best choice for the job in my opinion).

The Viscount and Strident were both fielded during the Yuuzhan Vong War. The Legacy of the Force series is where the Strident-class is finally visualized, if you look it up on Wookiepedia you will see that is tentatively labeled as being smaller than a Galactic-class Battle Carrier, which is 1600 m long, the same length as the Imperial and Tector-classes. The Strident-class doesn't even have any canonical stats for armament, fighter complement, and other stuff; while the Viscount-class is far better documented.

Edited by Zeta1127, 03 December 2010 - 07:41 PM.

[Tropical Bob]

Have you read the books? There were several large fleet engagements, such as N'Zoth. It would have been even bigger if the SDs hadn't left.

Yes, I did. And the only large engagement that I distinctly remember was the one at N'zoth.

Wookie only mentions three engagements itself:
-The blockade of Doornik-319. Listed as having 31 New Republic capital ships versus 9 Yevethan. The Yevethan fleet broadcasted captives asking the New Republic to leave, causing a rout.
-Black Nine, which only had a couple Thrustships versus a couple New Republic ships. Resulted in Black Nine's destruction.
-The Battle of N'zoth.

I tend to agree. Though I still don't quite remember the blockade of Doornik-319 so much, it is familiar, and I am reminded of the destruction of Black Nine.

[Kaleb Graff]

Those are the only battles explicitly depicted, but a number of others are mentioned at various points in Tyrant's Test. I got my copy and did a basic look. All page numbers are the paperback.
1. There was a feint a Doornik 319 after the main battle (310)
2. To quote p 318:
"...[speaking of the Yevetha ships] had reinforced the fleets at N'Zoth, Wakiza, and Z'Fell, and the other large-population worlds.
The reports that came in from the task forces sent to those worlds mirrored the experience at N'Zoth..."

I still think "Star Defender" is Republic for Star Dreadnought. I think, though I have no support, that it is comparable to the Praetor/Independence.

[Phoenix Rising]

Ironically, the BFC was the catalyst that finally got the development of the Star Defenders started, the NRDF was worried about the Intimidator(I want someone to tell what happened to the it too, PR, Timothy Zahn is the best choice for the job in my opinion).

Why not give Kube-McDowell another shot at a novel?

[Zeta1127]

Ironically, the BFC was the catalyst that finally got the development of the Star Defenders started, the NRDF was worried about the Intimidator(I want someone to tell what happened to the it too, PR, Timothy Zahn is the best choice for the job in my opinion).

Why not give Kube-McDowell another shot at a novel?

That works too, would definitely be a great story, and shame on the rest of the EU for discarding the New Class. The only reason I said Timothy Zahn would be the best choice is because he wrote the book on the Unknown Regions. The New Class is only implied from non-novel sources to be active during the Yuuzhan Vong War.

Edited by Zeta1127, 05 July 2010 - 07:16 AM.

[Kaleb Graff]

Actually, what I want them to do is to declare everything after Swarm War uncanon, and bring in Zahn, McDowell, and Stackpole to rewrite the Legacy Era, and do it right. I'd like it if McDowell wrote another one, just so long as we don't have the distraction with Luke (last time I read the series, I skipped that part). I'll read anything Zahn writes, and have as much as I can get my hands on. And it's all good.

[Zeta1127]

Well, at least bring in more Bantam authors, because everything after the Swarm War I can't even bring myself to read due to the ridiculous direction they took it. I know I like anything Zahn writes too, definitely my favorite author; though Stackpole, Luceno, Stover, Anderson, and Traviss (when she doesn't go Mando crazy and screw up the image of the Mandos in the process) usually know what they are doing too. I really need to read this stuff so I can give a decent opinion other than being appalled. I forbid the world from reading the Legacy comics, it is little more than the movies repackaged all over again, with a little spice for supposedly good measure.

[Kaleb Graff]

Well, at least bring in more Bantam authors, because everything after the Swarm War I can't even bring myself to read due to the ridiculous direction they took it. I know I like anything Zahn writes too, definitely my favorite author; though Stackpole, Luceno, Stover, Anderson, and Traviss (when she doesn't go Mando crazy and screw up the image of the Mandos in the process) usually know what they are doing too. I really need to read this stuff so I can give a decent opinion other than being appalled. I forbid the world from reading the Legacy comics, it is little more than the movies repackaged all over again, with a little spice for supposedly good measure.

My number one complaint: TOO MANY SITH!!!! They were somehow able to come up with non-sith villains for years, but Legacy, Fate of the Jedi, and the Legacy comics all involved sith, the last two of which had been in hiding.
On your author list:
Sackpole is quite good, Luceno is OK, I'm not a Stover fan, and he should have had his license revoked over Shadows of Mindor (It read like the first Han Solo trilogy, and I think it was intentional). Anderson is OK. Traviss, on the other hand, should be banned, and all her stuff decanonized. She killed Mara and Pelleaon!!! This is unforgivable, and also quite stupid. Also, her obsession with mandolorians has gone way to far.
I'm going to start plotting to overthrow LucasArts again.

[Zeta1127]

Well, at least bring in more Bantam authors, because everything after the Swarm War I can't even bring myself to read due to the ridiculous direction they took it. I know I like anything Zahn writes too, definitely my favorite author; though Stackpole, Luceno, Stover, Anderson, and Traviss (when she doesn't go Mando crazy and screw up the image of the Mandos in the process) usually know what they are doing too. I really need to read this stuff so I can give a decent opinion other than being appalled. I forbid the world from reading the Legacy comics, it is little more than the movies repackaged all over again, with a little spice for supposedly good measure.

My number one complaint: TOO MANY SITH!!!! They were somehow able to come up with non-sith villains for years, but Legacy, Fate of the Jedi, and the Legacy comics all involved sith, the last two of which had been in hiding.
On your author list:
Sackpole is quite good, Luceno is OK, I'm not a Stover fan, and he should have had his license revoked over Shadows of Mindor (It read like the first Han Solo trilogy, and I think it was intentional). Anderson is OK. Traviss, on the other hand, should be banned, and all her stuff decanonized. She killed Mara and Pelleaon!!! This is unforgivable, and also quite stupid. Also, her obsession with mandolorians has gone way to far.
I'm going to start plotting to overthrow LucasArts again.

That is why I said that note, I love the RC series, but everything else Traviss writes just makes me mad!

Edited by Zeta1127, 06 July 2010 - 07:18 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

The only reason I said Timothy Zahn would be the best choice is because he wrote the book on the Unknown Regions.

Actually...

But seriously, don't we rely on Zahn too much already? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Pellaeon was actually the only guy left in the Empire after 12 ABY, given his meteoric rise (okay, that's not Zahn's fault directly, but it was his character). Daala looks good on paper, but she reads like a bad joke. Can no one else do an Imperial character that isn't a stereotype?

Actually, what I want them to do is to declare everything after Swarm War uncanon, and bring in Zahn, McDowell, and Stackpole to rewrite the Legacy Era, and do it right.

I'm not sure we're done with the GCW yet. At least I'm not. There are years where nothing at all significant happened, and then there are years where stupid things happened. I used to wonder how they could possibly deem Jedi Prince to be C-canon, but if they didn't... it'd all unravel from there. How about Luke doesn't go looking for his "real" mom, only to realize he can't actually find her because LFL said so. Or how about coming up with a better plan for galactic domination than sticking explosives in astromechs? And so on.

[Kaleb Graff]

Yep. I wonder how they thought of some of those plotlines. If we deem Jedi Prince non P-canon, then that would make things much easier. And I wonder what the authors of Crystal Star and New Rebellion were thinking. Both have absolutely awful concepts, plus New Rebellion has the worst space combat ever. Three MC80-types vs. 2 Victories, and they almost loose. And no support ships! It should be shot.
Also, I read the Jedi Prince wookie article, and found it even more laughable. How did the wedding in the last book end, and Han still had to win Leia over in Courtship? I like the 'bedtime story' idea best, as it makes no sense otherwise.

Edited by Kaleb Graff, 10 July 2010 - 12:54 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

New Rebellion has the worst space combat ever. Three MC80-types vs. 2 Victories, and they almost loose. And no support ships! It should be shot.

Oh, I was thinking Dark Journey, where Jaina just kind of blacks outs during the Battle of Hapes and the book resumes when it's over. Maybe that's better than screwing it up, but it was really lame.