12 replies to this topic

[engineermdh]

Something I noticed in various GCs I have done are that the dreadnought class ships are given non or minimally upgraded fighters. A prime example is the complement of the Executor class, which has TIE Targeters and TIE Starfighters. On most other classes, the complement level scales with the ship level (e.g. ISD complment goes from TIE starfighters with mark I to TIE Fightersx3 at mark IV). This does not happen with the dreadnoughts because they only have one level. Now from several stand points you would want your most advanced ships to include more advanced fighters. So what I did on my personal copy was to change in the xml the spawned squadrons, notably on the dreadnoughts to x6 versions for the ones with only 1 version (e.g. Executor) and x3 and x6 respectively for mark I and mark II ships (e.g. Praetor).

The first suggestion I have is to look at the complements and how they level compared to the ship, the start and ending level of the complement, and how the complement's relative strength compares to its carrier's strength. An example might be the Carrack class light cruiser. This class carries one TIE squadron. It might start at TIE Fighters, but only level up to x3s through 6 levels of Carracks. On the other hand, an ISD might start with TIE fighters, but jump to x2s on mark II, x4 on mark III and x6 on mark IV. And a 2 level dreadnought might have x3 for mark I and x6 for mark II. There are two reasons why this might be a worthwhile change. The first is that fighters that are brought to battle die in lots of little explosions throughout a battle and it is a pain in the tail to bring your own fighters with a fleet and not rely on the complement fighters. A pain because they die and have to be replaced, and some of them have a hyperdrive class 4.0 compared to most military ships have a class 1.0. The second issue is the one I stated for changing them on my copy; that more advanced and expensive ships warrant the protection of a better fighter complement than a dime a dozen light cruiser.

The second is to add minor defenses and garrisons to the Star Colonies, nothing fancy but something. The logic is that it isn't defenseless, just mostly. I'm thinking along the lines of the pirate asteroid bases in vanilla EAW/FOC, nothing like the defenses or armament of a Golan or Star base, but something.

Third, making the garrison of the star bases represent what types of ships they build and limiting the number that can be deployed. For example, a star base 1 might have lots of fighters, but a star base 4 might have a single ISD to defend it while a SB5 has 2 ISDs.

These last two suggestions are more of a thought than anything else because most players create garrison fleets for planets that do the same thing and are more customized to their play style. The only reason I am suggesting them is that it creates a little safety net if you make a mistake in how/where you setup/place your fleets.

I'm curious what the general thought on these is and am totally open to discussing ways to make them more balanced/canon/workable/etc. I'm also willing to help with xml coding, just bear in mind that my experience in in xml is xaml/C# programs and what little I have picked up from reading xml files on various mods for various games, but I am more than willing to learn more as my schedule permits (dang school and whatnot).

[Ghostrider]

The whole issue of strarfighter compliments has already been covered and full details of the compliment package for 1.2 are given here.

Enjoy.

Ghost

[engineermdh]

thanks ghost for pointing me to the one place i didn't look
good to know that i'm not going crazy

[Stormhawk]

I like the idea of Starbases getting garrisons. It's a good way of simulating reinforcements from a sector fleet. More infrastructure in the form of starbases, the more ships will be sent to protect that asset.

[Zeta1127]

Starbase garrisons are about the only way that reinforcements from nearby systems can be simulated.

[Ghostrider]

Starbase garrisons are about the only way that reinforcements from nearby systems can be simulated.

It's probably safer to assume starbase garrisons are local and planetary defence forces.

I would say that any fleets that are in orbit around a world at any time might be scattered on patrol in nearby systems and can respond rapidly. That's certainly true for fleets with a pop-cap over 80. Regional forces hyperspace in after first contact has been made.

When I determine defences for a "planet" I assume it's for the forces in the same system + outlying patrol ships etc.

Just because a planet has 6 star destroyers in orbit does NOT mean all 6 are sitting watching cloud formations on the planetscape below.
Victory Destroyers at flank speed travel at 127 light years per hour (if my memory of the Thrawn trilogy is correct), so your defence fleets can actually be scattered over a range of some 30+ light years from the base planet and still respond to an attack within 40 minutes.

Alpha Centauri is only 3 minutes away at flank speed, so moderate fleets can easily cover several nearby systems and still respond to a major assault.

Ghost

[Tropical Bob]

Victory Destroyers at flank speed travel at 127 light years per hour (if my memory of the Thrawn trilogy is correct), so your defence fleets can actually be scattered over a range of some 30+ light years from the base planet and still respond to an attack within 40 minutes.

Alpha Centauri is only 3 minutes away at flank speed, so moderate fleets can easily cover several nearby systems and still respond to a major assault.

That sounds a bit much. That's a high multiple of the speed of light off of sublight drives. Maybe that's the relative speed of a Victory in hyperspace.

[Zeta1127]

Well, Alamo doesn't seem to support bringing in ships from nearby systems, at least not without a lot of coding, well, at least that is the impression I am getting.

[engineermdh]

Alpha Centauri is only 3 minutes away at flank speed, so moderate fleets can easily cover several nearby systems and still respond to a major assault.

This is correct and realistic. Also, the value of the planets in the sector would determine how the fleet would be deployed.

right now in game the fleet has to be at the planet to be available for the battle. the problem is that if you have a fleet that covers say 5 planets, you have to split it up to be able to intercept everything. for example, if a sector is "worth" a fleet consisting of an ISD with support from a couple light and heavy cruisers a frigate or two and a carrier, to split that up denies it most of its strength simply because most of its strength comes from their combined use and not their individual strength. and putting the fleet in the right place requires a planet that recon

I think that it might be worthwhile to equate the star colony level to the relative value of a system and have its garrison reflect that. Or to include some way for any planet to determine if a fleet is incoming. The way this was modeled in the vanilla was the sensor platform while gave you a few seconds warning that a fleet was coming and to move your defenses. The main problem with this was how the message was displayed, its was easy to miss it or cover it up by mousing over anything. one thing that might work is enabling all planets to see the pancake stacks with ?s from space and then planets with sight bonuses to see the content of the stacks.

[sargeantsandwich]

something else that might work is having buildable sector defense fleets, as in a space buildable structure that supplies the space above the planet with a massive defense fleet. just reduce the cost of the amount of ships to make up for not being able to move them around the galaxy.

[Ghostrider]

something else that might work is having buildable sector defense fleets, as in a space buildable structure that supplies the space above the planet with a massive defense fleet. just reduce the cost of the amount of ships to make up for not being able to move them around the galaxy.

Why complicate it?
Why not just build ships in the normal way. You probably won't be able to afford to build a "whole fleet" and what's the composition?
I won't want to build a fleet of fixed composition that will kill my economy for 3 years and have nothing until the "whole fleet" is finished.
Anyways, what if you upgrade your ISD's in the meantime and have Bilbringi thumping out ISD III's and Defender x2's when 2 years later your "sector fleet" is completed with ISD I's and TIE Starfighters.

Not for me.

[Phoenix Rising]

I like the idea of Starbases getting garrisons. It's a good way of simulating reinforcements from a sector fleet. More infrastructure in the form of starbases, the more ships will be sent to protect that asset.

Where are these hypothetical reinforcements coming from? Seriously. You didn't build them, yet you control the entirety of your faction in a given theater. If they are available to reinforce, why can't they deploy normally? It just doesn't make sense.

Even if we did use starship garrisons, the cost would be tacked onto the price of the station at half the unit cost per our present mechanic. No, I don't like starship garrisons - if you want to defend a world, put a fleet in orbit. A normal fleet that you can redeploy when it's no longer needed.

I could see about adding starfighter complements if that's something most people want to do. It would increase the build price/time of Space Colonies.

Victory Destroyers at flank speed travel at 127 light years per hour (if my memory of the Thrawn trilogy is correct), so your defence fleets can actually be scattered over a range of some 30+ light years from the base planet and still respond to an attack within 40 minutes.

Alpha Centauri is only 3 minutes away at flank speed, so moderate fleets can easily cover several nearby systems and still respond to a major assault.

That sounds a bit much. That's a high multiple of the speed of light off of sublight drives. Maybe that's the relative speed of a Victory in hyperspace.

They did use sublights to go from Myrkr to Wayland. You should be able to calculate average speed using the atlas and their figures.

right now in game the fleet has to be at the planet to be available for the battle. the problem is that if you have a fleet that covers say 5 planets, you have to split it up to be able to intercept everything. for example, if a sector is "worth" a fleet consisting of an ISD with support from a couple light and heavy cruisers a frigate or two and a carrier, to split that up denies it most of its strength simply because most of its strength comes from their combined use and not their individual strength. and putting the fleet in the right place requires a planet that recon

I don't really like the way reinforcements work either. Ideally, the reinforcement tab would give response times for fleets at nearby systems. This is modding though, and I think we just need to chalk it up to engine limitation. EaW's interface has very few positive qualities... you can't even put four fleets above a planet.

I believe we are going to limit the distance you can make a hyperspace jump without the aid of a trade route in v1.3 though, so that should at least shorten the front lines. We would've done it for v1.2, but the campaigns are set and we're going to conform to atlas positioning in v1.3, which will mess everything up anyway. It's a very easy change with great implications.