35 replies to this topic

[Pasidon]

This video caught my eye. It was made by people who like to find little conspiracies in everything that I typically don't listen to, but they show actual footage of Obama's speeches of him saying things I've never heard before that do seem.... well, just watch the video. I don't claim to support hating on Muslims and assuming they're all terrorists, but I do want to know if my president has Muslim roots. Why? Because that's rather important. If he was an admitted Muslim, he would never be elected president. Why? It's a Christian / Catholic country. We have ideals and principles set appart from certain religions that very much differ from the Muslim world, and we would like to keep it that way, especially since we are at war with Islamic supremacists.

Some things in the video are taken out of context, like the last bit with 9/11 footage... just ignore that since it has nothing to do with anything in this video. But anyway... I ultimately can't find any opinions to muster from this, but I'm curious to gather others.

[Ganon]

I'm pretty sure people were having the same suspicions back in '08.

Personally, I wouldn't give a chip either way. Does it really matter?

[Pasidon]

Like I said... yea, it does matter. Americans wouldn't vote Muslim. You know why he's president? He's black. Simple church going black men and women go nuts when they hear Obama's name, and that's simply because it's a politician they think they can relate to. That would be further away from the truth if he admitted to being muslim, thus throwing away his support.

[Elvenlord]

Pasi, I think I'm just going to ignore every post you make in here from now on. Obama a muslim? Really? And he won because he's black and black people voted for him? You realize about 12% of the population is black, right? He won because he wasn't bush (at the time) and he didn't pick Sarah Palin as his running mate.

[Ganon]

Heh, Sarah Palin.... So funny.

I think she should quit as a politician and become a full-time celebrity. She sure is dumb enough.
She lost the race for McCain.

How does that make you feel Pasi? That one of the bigger reasons McCain lost is because of her.
People used to say, "Well the guy's over 70, what if his heart stops and we're stuck with her?"

Ha!

...

Pasi, the only reason you don't like Obama is because you don't like blacks. I can say that because your racism in some of the other threads you've posted in is.....Well, to say it's very thinly veiled would be an understatement.

Would you have freaked out if Herman Cain had won the nomination? I think so.

Edited by Ganon, 28 February 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Pasidon]

I didn't say he was Muslim... I'm saying he just happened to give a very strong impression of it, as shown as evidence in the video. I'm not even considering it... it was a lame argument ever since he was trying to get elected. I personally wouldn't care... but Americans in general would VERY strongly care. But in this video, we see very strong relations with Islamic ties from his own mouth, and it should concern people to question what they've been told. Now why would I want people to see that? Because I don't want him re-elected? Smart question... I don't like what he stands for and I especially don't like why he was elected. I'm smart enough to see what people are saying and why. I'm done saying, "His race wasn't a factor" when it bluntly is. Why don't I see a black person who doesn't support Obama? Or a younger-generation individual who gets swept up in changing the way things work just to seem like a difference was made? Because he's a black man in politics, and that's different. Hillary Clinton was also in the running since she was a woman... it's different from what we'v been doing, so she gets supported by feminists and people who strongly support woman's rights. They are very well educated and that seems to be a mask for people... there's no reason to play dumb, Revora. You know more than 50% people in this country don't follow politics as well as they say. So if the majority of voters aren't following politics, how the heck do they decide a vote? What they see and what they hear is all they have to go on. People might as well still be monkeys... 'that's a woman' or 'that's a black guy' goes into their minds VERY fast and clouds opinions. I tested every single one of my friends who voted Obama and none of them knew some simple facts about his politics. There are also country folk like me who don't care for the black attitudes of today and people like Obama strike us in a negative light right off the bat. Do I hate black people? I don't hate anything... but true, I don't like modern blacks. I don't like white people either... but anyway... back to the politics...

Bush also factors into it... he was a white southern man who didn't strike the American eye or ear well, so people lash out like a dark-horse generation child... they want something completely different. There was no way McCain was going to win because... well... he's useless... and Republicans had a low chance to begin with. Nothing to say on that... that's why I voted Mike Huckabee last election. I don't care who people think are the best 2 party candidates. There is nothing civil about what Obama has done in the past 3 years and no one is saying otherwise. Everything I predicted happened in his reign... except one factor: people still believe in him. I sort of loved the fact Obama was elected at first just so he can be a lesson to those who were ignorant enough to vote for him, and that's where change would come from. But people just don't pay attention to unbiased mouths and they continue to back him. He has forced a healthcare on you that you didn't vote for... he is bartering America's oil regardless of what the American people told him not to do... he allows the American people to be mocked by permitting a mosque to be built right next to the World Trade Center even though hardly a soul asked for it... he is taxing the rich even though his party and supporters don't support it... and he wants your support. Heck yes I want people to figure it out if he is Muslim. Throw as many dumb conspiracies as you want out there... if it gets him dismounted from the white-house, then I'm all for it. With a man like that who was so well loved for very little reason in his election, very little will force people to believe otherwise. As someone who read every article possible during his first election, those for and against him... I have gathered all my evidence and can state without a doubt why he was elected. About a year ago I read of an anthropological study that was quite amusing to me. 150 black people and 150 white people who voted for Obama were chosen and shown videos of new candidates for 2012. They were fake politicians and it was to see if people would support them because of how they look and what they say... and the audience obviously weren't told any of this. The catch was 3 of the 5 were white, 3 out of the 5 word for word quoted Obama's election speeches and the other 2 took speeches from Roland Regan and the other was from Joe Biden. Over 95% of the black audience went for the black guy who used Joe Biden's speech with 80% of the white people doing the same. I'll see if I can find that article... but it very well supports my argument. I didn't think I needed any more evidence than what is apparent... but Obama 2012 is evidence enough that people are still ignorant. I've read things about him that make me want to vomit on every single person who still believes in Obama, and I'm disappointed in this country when so many others have chosen to rise above their government and make those changes promised to us. The US government is a tyranny so well tuned and experienced, people don't give a second look to their decisions. I swear, if we get a good honest man like Mike Huckabee elected, we would see that. Men like him tell the truth and aren't afraid to face the wrath of the lash for trying to make improvements to our financial models, among other things. And you know me... I don't type this long unless I feel V E R Y strongly about it. The joke known as Obama needs to end this year, and I honestly would pick almost any other candidate to replace him... with one obvious exception... but I hope something gets to people that finally tells them they were fooled by him.

But did you even watch the video? He does say some pretty racy things I didn't expect to hear from him... especially since I'm not a believer of this whole Obama-Islam conspiracy thing.

[duke_Qa]

If he was a Muslim he wouldn't get elected in the first place. Its just election games to bring this topic up again in the re-election. If anything, his religion is education(what he spend most of his time studying at least). I guess that has less of a punch than Muslim, since there are more educated people than muslims that votes in the states.

on the video: it seems primarily to be snipped out of the egyptian speech he had back in the day, then there are others where he defends the majority of peaceful muslims that have done their best to support the USA. I guess you can read it like the devil reads the bible, but I don't see a big problem here.

he is taxing the rich even though his party and supporters don't support it

It seems that the occupy movement have awakened people to more taxes, I thought the republican parody of democrats sounded like "tax and spend! tax and spend!". And I'm sort of surprised it took this long since the wall fell before people started reacting to the right-wing policies that have been religiously upheld and biblically destructive. Right wingers are like communist apologists in that sense: "We just didn't go far enough, perfect X is perfect when it goes all the way".

Throw as many dumb conspiracies as you want out there... if it gets him dismounted from the white-house, then I'm all for it.

I'm somewhat certain that the more bullshit gets thrown out, the more people are willing to re-elect him.
With the fear-based nominees the republican lot has been throwing around, I'd be surprised if he didn't win in a massive landslide:

The problem is that they've [GOP] succumbed to The Politics of Fear. They've gotten trapped in a race to the bottom, to see who can use the lowest emotions to run for the highest offices. And it's eating them alive.
As Michael Medved reminds us, over the last 80 years, voters have consistently chosen the more positive candidate for president. While anger and insecurity can fuel a short term backlash, what people really crave is leadership, not pandering. And leaders -- true leaders -- make our fears better rather than worse.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you are very anything-but-Obama. Through the times you've shown a rose-tinted fascination with fascism. Which I think I mentioned in this (still quiet) thread, is pretty closely related to the current neo-conservative/reactionary/fear-emotion-based Fox-news republican. I won't go too deep into that; since you are actually posting this in a place where you know you will get fired upon. That is, at least, a positive thing. Because if you get stuck in a echo-room with only like-minded individuals, you are much more likely to end up in a suicide-bomber/ABB situation.

You might want the Obama government to end this year, but I hope and suspect his eight years in office will be followed by a even more progressive president while the Fox-news funded fanatics gets marginalized more and more. We will probably see more domestic terrorism as extreme right-wingers in the US going postal, and I hope then that those events will be pinned upon their true cause: fear-based right wing politicians.

Edited by duke_Qa, 28 February 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[Hostile]

Heh, Sarah Palin.... So funny.

I think she should quit as a politician and become a full-time celebrity. She sure is dumb enough.
She lost the race for McCain.

How does that make you feel Pasi? That one of the bigger reasons McCain lost is because of her.
People used to say, "Well the guy's over 70, what if his heart stops and we're stuck with her?"

Ha!

...

Pasi, the only reason you don't like Obama is because you don't like blacks. I can say that because your racism in some of the other threads you've posted in is.....Well, to say it's very thinly veiled would be an understatement.

Would you have freaked out if Herman Cain had won the nomination? I think so.

You know what's even funnier. Sarah Palin is smarter than you are. She's on TV, writes books, and was VP candidate. What do you do? Hang out at Revora. LOL Imagine you're dumber than Sarah Palin.

[Elvenlord]

Just because you're on TV doesn't make you intelligent, nor does writing books.

[Pasidon]

I'll agree with almost anyone that Palin, much like Bush, seems overly uneducated with their gritty attitudes and slangy styles of speakin', but claiming with without a doubt that these two people are under-educated is just as flawed and ridiculous as saying Obama is a Muslim. The evidence for both claims seem to be well supported by words coming from their own mouths, but it is always out of context when we hear it. I swear... if I hear another person claim to prove Palin's stupidity since she exaggerated her proximity to Russia, I'm throwing a cat out a window. That's effective... it really is. But I'm beginning to see more lies being put on Republicans than on Democrats these days, and some Democrats actually play that game to discredit Republicans. Must I mention FOX news?

And I dunno Dukie... I often hear people getting into defensive positions when they come across anti-Obama swill, but they would love him regardless. It is because of their ridiculously bizarre love for him they act like their own family was insulted when he is. I say if enough is built against him, and something like this Muslim conspiracy thing is proven right, then that is how you break down a man who manipulated an entire planet into blindly respecting him. I'm not against a leader being so loved, but when it is so blind like this, people just shake their heads 'yes' to everything he does... and I dunno how people who claim to be intelligent can support him when his garbage is so obviously not in favor of the American people.

[Hostile]

Just because you're on TV doesn't make you intelligent, nor does writing books.

Neither does posting on a forum yet you do it. Palin isn't stupid, you are, for thinking she's stupid. If she is stupid than she's the smartest stupid person I've ever seen next to Bush and Obama and they makes me look stupid. So what are you now? Intelligent?

[Elvenlord]

Except, you know, I haven't said I'm smart or that she is stupid. I merely pointed out having a book and being on TV doesn't make a person smart. Way to turn that into a personal attack. Good to know that's the basis of you argument.

[Puppeteer]

I will never understand American politics.

At what point do policies actually factor into consideration of a politician's worth? And I'm not talking about your half-baked extrapolations and woeful assertions.

Personal attacks, vehement criticisms of anything remotely progressive, strict adherence to partisan lies and half-truths...

I cannot wait for the day when people like you turn around and say 'it was all satire!'

Sickening.

[Pasidon]

It's a country filled with high-state metropolitan modernists and lower-regarded, small town / country living traditionalists. With such different perspectives come very different sides. I, as a Republican, have been exposed to guns, hard living and little exposure to government and I love every aspect of each. Others, as Democrats, are exposed to the same and find it unbearable. People living in such diverse environments is a very large factor in what makes a Democrat and a Republican, and it is also why we can't stand the other. I like to say I have more logical facts than those who live in a city, but they would obviously disagree... so nothing ever gets resolved.

Except, you know, I haven't said I'm smart or that she is stupid.

True, but Gannon did and you happened to intentionally support him by disagreeing with hos.

Edited by {IP}Pasidon, 28 February 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Phil]

[vid]

This video caught my eye. It was made by people who like to find little conspiracies in everything that I typically don't listen to, but they show actual footage of Obama's speeches of him saying things I've never heard before that do seem.... well, just watch the video. I don't claim to support hating on Muslims and assuming they're all terrorists, but I do want to know if my president has Muslim roots. Why? Because that's rather important. If he was an admitted Muslim, he would never be elected president. Why? It's a Christian / Catholic country. We have ideals and principles set appart from certain religions that very much differ from the Muslim world, and we would like to keep it that way, especially since we are at war with Islamic supremacists.

Some things in the video are taken out of context, like the last bit with 9/11 footage... just ignore that since it has nothing to do with anything in this video. But anyway... I ultimately can't find any opinions to muster from this, but I'm curious to gather others.

1. Who gives a shit? He's probably an atheist/agnostic anyway, but has to pretend he's a Christian because your country values primitive tribalism higher than sane ideas.

2. Even if he were a Muslim, how does that make him any different? You pretend you're not hating on Muslims, yet you wish to know if he's one because the bias in your country wouldn't have let him be elected.

3. Even if he were a Muslim and lied about it, who gives a shit? Politicians lie all the time and lying about if you follow one old book instead of another is hardly the worst there has been in history.

4. I keep hearing "it's a Christian country". Really? What part of the Christian message do you follow? "Do unto others what you would have them do to you"? "Love your neighbor as yourself"?

5. That video is the worst piece of "evidence" I've ever seen. Random 3-second clips glued together in a very suggestive way. The only thing it proves is that Obama is a very slick speaker and manages to make every audience connect to him in a way. He's definitely good with words (much less so with actions).

I will never understand American politics.

At what point do policies actually factor into consideration of a politician's worth? And I'm not talking about your half-baked extrapolations and woeful assertions.

Personal attacks, vehement criticisms of anything remotely progressive, strict adherence to partisan lies and half-truths...

I cannot wait for the day when people like you turn around and say 'it was all satire!'

Sickening.

I feel the same, although it seems there are a lot of intelligent and sane people as well. You just see and hear them less because they don't make such a big scene.

[Pasidon]

I feel like I've already answered each of those questions twice already...

[duke_Qa]

Doesn't matter what we Europeans say about the topic, your point of view is firmly shaped by those around you. It's a social conformance thing.
The only way you'd be able to consider these arguments would be by going into exile, and move to a place where Republican thinking and social circles aren't available.

I suspect that your aquintances, friends and family would have an easier time accepting you coming out of the closet than discussing alternative ways to run a government, or even considering anything but minimal government.
I guess its somewhat fascinatingly "taboo" for you to discuss this. A metaphorical porn stash under your bed. We all rebel in peculiar ways

[Pasidon]

Neh... There's no such thing as an unbiased American when it comes to politics. Maybe when it's a Librarian talking about the parties that actually matter... but either way, it's red vs. blue and friendly fire is on.

[Ganon]

Heh, Sarah Palin.... So funny.

I think she should quit as a politician and become a full-time celebrity. She sure is dumb enough.
She lost the race for McCain.

How does that make you feel Pasi? That one of the bigger reasons McCain lost is because of her.
People used to say, "Well the guy's over 70, what if his heart stops and we're stuck with her?"

Ha!

...

Pasi, the only reason you don't like Obama is because you don't like blacks. I can say that because your racism in some of the other threads you've posted in is.....Well, to say it's very thinly veiled would be an understatement.

Would you have freaked out if Herman Cain had won the nomination? I think so.

You know what's even funnier. Sarah Palin is smarter than you are. She's on TV, writes books, and was VP candidate. What do you do? Hang out at Revora. LOL Imagine you're dumber than Sarah Palin.

What's the point in taking pot-shots at Revora?
A person's intelligence isn't measured by their accomplishments anyway.
Oh well, I'm sure that was just a joke because if it were meant to be an actual argument, it was a joke.

...

I think you need to relax, have a laugh, and not get so serious.
I know, how about some amusing quotes. http://politicalhumo...a/palinisms.htm

For those too lazy to click links, here are some good ones:

"[Paul Revere] did warn the British. And in a shout-out, gotcha-type of question that was asked of me, I answered candidly. And I know my American history." --Sarah Palin, defending her botched Paul Revere history lesson by taking issue with the reporter, who simply asked her "What have you seen so far today, and what are you going to take away from your visit?" (Fox News Sunday interview, June 5, 2011)

"He who warned, uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed." --Sarah Palin, on Paul Revere's midnight ride, June 3, 2011

"But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies." --Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck's radio show, Nov. 24, 2010

"As we work and sightsee on America's largest island, we'll get to view more majestic bears, so now is a good time to draw attention to the political equivalent of the species." --Sarah Palin, referring to Kodiak Island in Alaska, even though Hawaii is America's biggest island, July 19, 2010

"Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn't it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate." --a Tweet by Sarah Palin, which she quickly removed after being ridiculed for inventing the word "refudiate," July 18, 2010

"Peaceful New Yorkers, pls refute the Ground Zero mosque plan if you believe catastrophic pain caused @ Twin Towers site is too raw, too real." --a second Tweet by Sarah Palin, which she also removed after misusing the word "refute," July 18, 2010

"'Refudiate,' 'misunderestimate,' 'wee-wee'd up.' English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!'" --a follow-up Tweet by Sarah Palin, proudly mistaking her illiteracy for literary genius, July 18, 2010

"This is Reagan country (applause). Yeah! And perhaps it was destiny that the man who went to California's Eureka College would become so woven within and inter-linked to the Golden State." --Sarah Palin, blundering on Reagan's education while speaking at a fundraiser at California State University-Stanislaus. Eureka College is in Illinois. (June 25, 2010)

"What the federal government should have done is accept the assistance of foreign countries, of entrepreneurial Americans who have had solution that they wanted presented ... The Dutch and the Norwegians, they are known for dikes and for cleaning up water and for dealing with spills." --Sarah Palin, on solving the Gulf oil spill crisis, Fox News, June 15, 2010

Oh yes, the Norwegians are known for their dikes. I completely forgot.

Edited by Ganon, 29 February 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Pasidon]

http://thetruthwins....ut-christianity

I can make your political idol look bad too:

#1 "Islam has always been part of America"
#2 "we will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities"
#3 "These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings."
#4 "America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings."
#5 "So I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed"
#6 "Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity and racial equality"
#7 "As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith."
#8 "I look forward to hosting an Iftar dinner celebrating Ramadan here at the White House later this week, and wish you a blessed month."
#9 "That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn't. And I consider it part of my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear."
#10 "I also know that Islam has always been a part of America's story."

No need to take it so seriously, so just have a laugh. That's what the Think Tank is all about.

What's the point in taking pot-shots at Revora?

Really? That's what makes Revora great... ruthless debate tactics without a moderator screaming in your ear.