39 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Rising]

Okay, let's stay on topic. Deckplans Alliance makes the argument that the prequels aren't really prequels. While I think some of the points are merely critical for the sake of critique (implying that prequel planets need to have shown up in the original trilogy, for one), it's an interesting case built on '90s canon.

[MinofDefense]

I won't get into the continuity mess created by TCW since it's exhausting.

Novel/comics wise, the EU didn't jump the shark until the post-Vong era where EVERYTHING the characters did or fought against became tied to a latent Sith agenda or a millennia-spanning cosmic evil. Seriously, just hearing about the latest story arc where the Sith come back to try and take over or some incredibly old and powerful force tries to eat the galaxy is painful. There's tons one can do with the SW universe that doesn't need the galaxy in peril of destruction or conquering every five minutes.

Edited by MinofDefense, 02 May 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[Zeta1127]

I like that critique even though I don't agree with every point, because its presented in a very professional manner, inviting a very healthy debate, unlike Plinkett's reviews.

Their issues concerning whether Darth Vader hunted down adult Jedi, not taking the EU account, is inaccurate. The security recording that Obi-Wan watched clearly shows Darth Vader in a fierce duel with an unnamed adult Jedi and two Jedi students, later revealed to be Jedi Battlemaster Cin Drallig and two Padawans. I really want to see that duel, particularly the Darth Vader vs. Cin Drallig portion.

Edited by Zeta1127, 02 May 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[Casen]

I like that critique even though I don't agree with every point, because its presented in a very professional manner, inviting a very healthy debate, unlike Plinkett's reviews.

Actually despite Plinkett's presentation he points out the problems expertly. If you payed attention you'd realize the guy has movie school expertise. He's a pure genius.

http://en.wikipedia..../RedLetterMedia

[Zeta1127]

Actually despite Plinkett's presentation he points out the problems expertly. If you payed attention you'd realize the guy has movie school expertise. He's a pure genius.

http://en.wikipedia..../RedLetterMedia

I would take Mike Stoklasa seriously if he wasn't biased against George Lucas's work starting with the Special Editions, and I am also too serious of a person for the Harry S. Plinkett persona. Telling me he is right and has film school experience isn't going to change my mind, because I like all of the Star Wars films pretty equally.

[Casen]

I would take Mike Stoklasa seriously if he wasn't biased against George Lucas's work starting with the Special Editions,

He's biased against George Lucas' works starting with the special editions because that's when everything he did was garbage.

Yeah I really needed to see an autistic alien dance in Jabba's Palace in Return of the Jedi. Now I have to skip over that part.

Telling me he is right and has film school experience isn't going to change my mind, because I like all of the Star Wars films pretty equally.

It's pretty much a fact from anyone with film experience that the prequels are objectively inferior.

[johnchm.10]

why they used that particular alien is beyond me. yeah, a crime lord would have entertainment like that, but GL could have gone with a more humanoid alien and done better, for the sake of the audience. even another Twi'lek would've worked, been a bit more entertaining, been somewhat plausible, as he had a Twi'lek dancer, whom he fed to the rancor, and it wouldnt have been so weird, odd, strange, and creepy

[smashedsaturn]

The thing about the plinket reviews is that you can sit there for 3 hours, watch them all back to back, and stay entertained! Try reading or watching a serious objective review for 3 hours and see if you can handle it. They raise many good points, and I agree that the special editions are.... well... molested, for lack of a better word. Some things I didn't mind were the larger wide shots of Mos Eisly and the conversation between Jabba and Han by the falcon, however the crap that annoyed me was all the little things they changed for no reason. It's the same with the blu-ray. I have the blurays and will watch them because of how insanely crisp they are compared to the VHS tapes, but wish that they had included the theatrical releases of the movies in HD on the same disk as a bonus feature.

[Phoenix Rising]

If I start making confetti pop out of Stormtroopers when they're shot, you guys will let me know it's time to hang it up, right?

[Kitkun]

If I start making confetti pop out of Stormtroopers when they're shot, you guys will let me know it's time to hang it up, right?

What about Gungans?

[Casen]

The thing about the plinket reviews is that you can sit there for 3 hours, watch them all back to back, and stay entertained! Try reading or watching a serious objective review for 3 hours and see if you can handle it. They raise many good points, and I agree that the special editions are.... well... molested, for lack of a better word. Some things I didn't mind were the larger wide shots of Mos Eisly and the conversation between Jabba and Han by the falcon, however the crap that annoyed me was all the little things they changed for no reason. It's the same with the blu-ray. I have the blurays and will watch them because of how insanely crisp they are compared to the VHS tapes, but wish that they had included the theatrical releases of the movies in HD on the same disk as a bonus feature.

I fundamentally agree that the special editions weren't totally "negative", but I'd say 95% of it was unnecessary. The deleted scenes that were re-added I have no issue with - though I sorta wonder why they didn't add these:



To be fair it looks almost like they're just one take and unrefined.

I don't mind the Special Edition Empire Strikes back, nothing is jarring. A New Hope, well, the Greedo thing is definitely an issue. The Jabba deleted scene is well, what it is, and for all the movies re-enhancing the space battles, whilst they don't piss me off at all, I could argue were definitely sorta unnecessary, but I don't MIND them.

The worst thing in the special editions which is totally unforgivable is the aforementioned extended Jabba's Palace dance scene in Return of the Jedi. That's Jar Jar Binks level bad.

[Phoenix Rising]

The Luke and Biggs scenes are the most humanizing and relatable scenes filmed in the entire series. Polar opposite of a virgin-birth slave child who's owned by a giant bug.

[johnchm.10]

If I start making confetti pop out of Stormtroopers when they're shot, you guys will let me know it's time to hang it up, right?

What about Gungans?

ooh ooh ooh! maybe they should complain about a "stormy thirst!" too? lol

[johnchm.10]

so it just occurred to me that even in TOR, the technological crap has a greater resemblance to the original trilogy than that of the prequels, with the only exceptions being minor ones, more related to the advancement of real life technology, like Heads Up Displays in the ships, and other small tid-bits
it leads me to believe that there is even internal dissent towards TCW

Edited by johnchm.10, 05 May 2012 - 01:57 AM.

[Darth Stalin]

"The Greedo thing" - well, I always knew that HAN SHOT FIRST! as it was all that "Solo'ish" issue of dealing ith unexpected troubles with bounty hunters.

About the ExpUniv - I didn't read much of books and comics; and I stopped reading books after that stupid issue with Rukh killing Thrawn... Yet the latest DHComics series of Dark Times and Legacy are really fresh air. And Legacy is quite well anchored into "classical SW Universe", as the Siths were potent beings many thousands years before, so the period of galactic Civil War covered by Ep. IV-VI (and until Daala & Pellaeon era) was veeery short as compared to these conflicts of the past, raging across the Galaxy for centuries. Thus the emergence fo "New Sith/One Sith order" looks reasonable, and even the "newest" Skywalker (as well as his uncle...) is great character - a mixture of "life-troubled Luke, Dark Side-twisted Vader and some sort of Han Solo-style adventurer, all in one!

[Zeta1127]

TCW isn't the prequels, it seems like you are trying to use it as a synonym when it isn't.

What issue with Rukh killing Thrawn?

The problem with the Legacy comics is they take place way too close to the everything else, and the Legacy era in general feels like a rehash of the Clone Wars and the Dark Times to me.

[Casen]

TCW isn't the prequels, it seems like you are trying to use it as a synonym when it isn't.

The original Clone Wars cartoon series isn't really anything, it is just "there", but I could care less about it because it's related to the clone wars.

The new Clone Wars series, and the 2008 movie, is just a hyper-charged concentration of everything that was wrong with the prequels, in addition to having rather autistic, stiff animation.

[Phoenix Rising]

"Rukh stabbed first!" Awesome idea for a tee shirt meta-parody.

[Zeta1127]

The original Clone Wars cartoon series isn't really anything, it is just "there", but I could care less about it because it's related to the clone wars.

The new Clone Wars series, and the 2008 movie, is just a hyper-charged concentration of everything that was wrong with the prequels, in addition to having rather autistic, stiff animation.

I was referring to what johnchm.10 was saying.

[tdragonblood]

Ah, this topic makes me so sad. But to answer the original question, Kacen is right on the money. The Special Editions is where is started, although not quite as obvious. Is it really necessary to make Mos Eisley, a spaceport and "wretched hive of scum and villainy," super populated with giant creatures? Greedo shooting first? The Jabba-Han scene... eh, I could live with it, but I didn't think it brought that much to the table.

I really wondered why they made a number of their changes. Greedo shooting first takes away from Han's personality, showing the abominable snow monster on Hoth takes away a huge amount of tension and mystery from the scene, and the musical scene on in Jabba's palace changed the atmosphere of his palace from scummy to cartoonish.

The Prequels basically took the same idea of those changes and made 3 movies from it. There was really bad characterization, considerable lack of tension, and it was quite cartoonish. Jar Jar Binks? Making everything bright and colorful? The horrendous script? How would you describe Anakin's, or heck, ANYONE'S characterization in the prequels? Qui gon jin was relatable, but outside of that? There was little to no synergy between characters. It was just a mess. The actors were fine, the directing and the script were terrible.

Oh well, at least we get awesome TC's like Phoenix Rising to remind us how awesome Star Wars can be.