52 replies to this topic

[Chih]

I am running an i7 2700k @ 5 ghz, 8 gb 1833 mhz ram and a GTX 570, and I still get some lag in GFFA. Hence I'm relatively sure that everyone no matter the power of the computer experiences lag on GFFA. Granted it was way worse in 1.1 but it still gets rather laggy in 1.2 as well.

So what I did to fix this was modify the Galaxy Far Far Away XML file, basically removing almost all pirate presence from planets (the few I left I diminished the fleet and garrison greatly) and giving all planets to the Rebel Alliance and Empire. I gave the Empire more planets (including all core planets, and most mid-rim planets), but the Alliance has more starting money and starts at Tech 2 (this way the rebels get the T-47 that it can't get at tech 0/1) to balance it out a little bit. Rebel and Empire heroes that were recruitable only on "hard to reach" planets were moved to planets that usually get conquered or are owned by respective factions, some more logical for the hero than others (eg. Carlist Riekan on Hoth). Then I removed most starting fighters/transports that rebels/empire cannot recruit to remove the lag from too much unit variety. Now I'm week 60 into the campaign as the Rebel Alliance, and so far it has been a lot of fun with minimal lag and a real war from week 1 instead of a laggy pirate grind. The campaign has better performance than most similar size campaigns in other mods, yet it has the feel of greatness that is PR.

I'll probably continue to modify the XML file, as I was lazy and just wanted to try this out first to see how it plays out. A lot of planets just have soldiers, a space station and in some cases a golan or two to mark the faction the planet belongs to at start of the campaign.

What I'm wondering though, is if it was possible to do something similar for 1.3? Basically, a GFFA campaign with minimal pirate presence and the galaxy split in both factions. It might not be the most canon campaign, but I think it would be enjoyed by a lot of players. As it is the modified GFFA campaign performs so well that I'm sure even more planets could be included without too much of a hit in performance, although I'll find that out if I continue modifying the GFFA XML. I could also upload the XML file once I'm satisified with my modifications on it if anyone else wants to try it out.

 

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Edited by Chih, 05 March 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[evilbobthebob]

I'm glad to see someone taking these matters into their own hands. It is unlikely that we will be providing campaigns of the type you describe, because we carefully balance each campaign around the larger fleet sizes and independent worlds.

Feel free to release your modified XMLs on the forum once you get them to a stage you like

[Phoenix Rising]

I don't have a problem with increasing starting planets for each faction, assuming the majority of players don't object. We're still working on optimization of galactic for v1.3 to hopefully avoid the unit austerity that you describe. I agree: it's not your hardware.

[Chih]

Thanks for the replies!

Alright, I'll keep working on the campaign then and see where it goes. My main focus will be a hard/balanced campaign with optimized performance and the Empire and Rebellion at each others throats from the start.

[1871]

hey Chih.. hell yeah i'd love to try your GFFA, when u get done with it.. i LOVE hugh galaxies to fight big space battle in!!

Maybe you could also let us kknow how to input more planets in a gc. I usually have to play Sins of a solar Empire to have over 120 planets to fight over. Sorry if i talked about another game.

[Zeta1127]

There is nothing wrong with mentioning Sins of a Solar Empire, what do you think inspired the standardized planetary advantages?

[Aizen Teppa]

Nothing against more planets... but I love pirates.

They are great source of easy credits!

[Kitkun]

Maybe you could also let us kknow how to input more planets in a gc. I usually have to play Sins of a solar Empire to have over 120 planets to fight over. Sorry if i talked about another game.

Unfortunately, more planets means more lag.

[Darth Stalin]

Hey, Chih, into what planets have you moved the Rebel heroes?
What files have you modded to obtain such effect and what have you had to get that result?
Can you make a list "what hero is moved and into where?

[Chih]

Maybe you could also let us kknow how to input more planets in a gc. I usually have to play Sins of a solar Empire to have over 120 planets to fight over. Sorry if i talked about another game.

Unfortunately, more planets means more lag.

I just started two days ago, but so far I'm sitting between a yes and no on that.The main contributor for lag is still the huge variety and number of different units, not the amount of planets. Of course lag goes up a small amount for each planet added, but if the unit amounts and variety is toned down the campaign runs significantly better than if simply a few planets were removed. For now I will not add any planets, and see how much performance I can get with just modifying the Galaxy Far Far Away XML file. Although I did toy around with the Traderoutes.XML as well, as I got a hunch lag also comes from the Ai moving fleets about, since my fps was higher on the Empire side of my modded campaign than the Rebel side, and the Empire had 1/3 more planets (would also contribute to more planets = more lag). Removing non-famous trade routes that are not required, and adding others for easier path finding to the Ai might help as well, I have yet to confirm this would work though as I've only changed a few routes.

Hey, Chih, into what planets have you moved the Rebel heroes?
What files have you modded to obtain such effect and what have you had to get that result?
Can you make a list "what hero is moved and into where?

Judder Page on Hoth, Bria Tharen on Ylesia, Tarfful on Despayre (in my campaign, the Empire controls Kashyyyk and Tarfful to my understanding was enslaved anyway), Wedge Antilles on Yavin IV etc. Most heroes I just landed on the planet where something happened that they became known after, a signature planet, or where they are mentioned being on. If the homeworld is accessable as a starting location or through conquest from a gameplay perspective I haven't changed the hero location as PR has pretty much all heroes in canonical or otherwise good locations. I will provide a list when I am done for people to know the changes, but for now heroes take the lowest priority as they're the easiest part.

Only files modded so far are CAMPAIGNS_GALAXY_FAR_FAR_AWAY.XML and TRADEROUTES.XML. And my results, as said I just toned down the amount of units and unit variety substantially. I might delve into more files later to make it a proper submod, but I'm not sure if I have the time or energy for that yet

And if anyone is interested, at the moment the campaign starts in ~2 BBY when the Rebel Alliance is formed.

Edited by Chih, 16 May 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[evilbobthebob]

You're certainly on the right track with modifying trade routes. We are doing something similar for v1.3. You are also correct about the causes of lag, since testing I did has proven pretty much the same thing (i.e. it doesn't matter how many of each unit type you have as much as how many unit types there are).

[Phoenix Rising]

The main contributor for lag is still the huge variety and number of different units, not the amount of planets.

Seconded. I have a custom campaign that I use for development that includes every planet with only a single base for space/ground. I can turn on the CSA strategic AI and still get 45-60 FPS.

Tarfful on Despayre (in my campaign, the Empire controls Kashyyyk and Tarfful to my understanding was enslaved anyway)

I think the post-RotS timeline has finally settled to where I can say we got this wrong in GFFA even.

[Kitkun]

I just started two days ago, but so far I'm sitting between a yes and no on that.The main contributor for lag is still the huge variety and number of different units, not the amount of planets.

True, though numbers still play a part. Mainly, I mean that more planets will mean more units. Unless you disable AI, it'll just take them and build.
It's so frustrating to see one of the best things about this mod become a liability due to how poorly cobbled together the engine is...

Seconded. I have a custom campaign that I use for development that includes every planet with only a single base for space/ground. I can turn on the CSA strategic AI and still get 45-60 FPS.

Out of curiosity, how many planets is that?

Edited by Kitkun, 16 May 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Little over 220. But the answer will be different for the v1.3 release.

To clarify, I meant CSA in addition to Rebel or Empire. So two AIs.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 16 May 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[Chih]

Bit of a status update, I finished with the Rebel Alliance yesterday and now I'm working through the Empire.

I did change the original idea a bit though and I will include more pirate/neutral planets after all (although with less varied fleets and less fighters/more carriers to keep performance high). Most of these planets, for example Nal Hutta act as buffers between the Empire and the Alliance in the mid to outer rim. At the moment the pirate/neutral planets number at 19, but this is subject to change. Some planets will also not have any fleets, but very powerful ground forces, to simulate neutral planets and still let fleets pass through.

I cut the Rebel Alliance planets down to 12, so now they're restricted to planets that canonically had an Alliance base (eg. Polis Massa), a lot of Alliance activity (eg. Bothawui) or that fit simply too well from a gameplay perspective (eg. Dagobah, no buildings here though, just jungle and some rangers ). The Rebel Alliance fleet also has no real capitals at the start, with the most powerful ship being a single mark III Recusant-class Destroyer orbiting Mon Calamari. The Mon Calamari shipyards have however recently become fully operational. The mainstray of the Alliance starting fleet consists of Nebulon-B's, CR90 and CR90a Corvettes, some DP-20 Gunships here and there and some mark II Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers. The Alliance also has a lot of fighters, mainly Z-95t Headhunters, BTL-A4 Y-wings, some R-22 Spearheads as well as R-41 Starchasers in some systems.

I made the Alliance this way because personally I enjoy the idea of playing them the "guerilla" style the most. To compensate for the disadvantage the Alliance has in planets and raw military power, I created trade lanes that connect all Alliance owned planets from Dantooine to Hoth. Because of the trade lanes it should not be hard to reclaim lost planets, reinforce weakened fleets, move heroes either to the front or rear and in general there's more choice in which direction to strike from for the Alliance player. I'm pretty sure the Rebel Alliance will be a lot of fun to play for anyone who likes a challenge and shares my playstyle.

What I'm debating in my head at the moment is how to accurately represent the Empire and still keep the campaign fun and challenging. I want the Empire to be represented as the strong faction it was 2 BBY, with firm control over most of the galaxy. This means there will be a lot less to do for the Empire player though, and the Alliance might get too easily steamrolled if the Empire player just puts all the starting fleets into one big force. At the moment I'm between just letting it be this way, trusting players are looking more out to enjoy the campaign than to just blitz it with auto-resolve, or to seriously beef up the Ai controlled Alliance faction.

I am also considering to change complements for most ships. Not in numbers of squadrons, but as in what units are spawned. There's some ships that spawn too new fighters, and others that spawn way too old fighters for the time period my campaign is set in. While messing with ship complements I will also tweak the transport numbers for some ships so there's more fighter/bomber spawns, too bad it's not possible to prioritize what units are launched first.

Lastly, trade lanes, hyperspace lanes, whatever one wants to call them are getting an overhaul. There will be less routes to access planets, but this will not be a problem due to most of the galaxy being under our two factions anyway. Hopefully a reduction in trade lanes will improve performance even further and in the case of this campaign even enhance the gameplay a bit.

I will release the modified files in separate folders, so the user can choose wether to use my files or stock PR files.

[Phoenix Rising]

I came to the conclusion that for the Alliance to be properly guerrilla, the Empire would first need more enemies to deal with. Try bottling them up with stronger Independent worlds.

[Chih]

I came to the conclusion that for the Alliance to be properly guerrilla, the Empire would first need more enemies to deal with. Try bottling them up with stronger Independent worlds.

Yeah you're right. The independent worlds currently do bottle the Empire up, but not enough.

Anyway, trying this out:

I will isolate the Empire planets in the outer rim completely from the core worlds in both sides of the campaign. This should make the Ai have to break through to the outer rim first and gives the Rebel player more immersion in harassing the Imperial outer rim planets while preparing for the real challenge.

And when the player is playing as the Empire, the trade lines from the core-mid planets to the outer rim are bottlenecked by extremely strong independent planets. The player has to break through these planets first in order to aid the lightly garrisoned outer rim planets. The Rebel Ai is more likely to have taken more outer rim planets and kicked out some capitals by the time the Empire is through while the Imperial player should this way have a chance to defend against these lighter attacks. Will be interesting and probably hard to balance. But hey, if it works it'l be a blast

[smashedsaturn]

while we are talking about campaigns I have a suggestion for OSH; for the NR the mon calamari trio of shipyard planets (hast... can't remember the other one) is very valuable, however the way the stations are currently set up mon calamari has a few level 3 yeards and hast a few and it's just plain inefficient. I think hast should have only level 4 or only level 5 yards, mon calimari only 4 or 5 (opposite of hast) and the third should have only level 3. It allows the bonuses to be fully used. If it would be OP maybe they could start with only one or two of a single station type or none at all to allow the player to choose the distribution of production.

[Zeta1127]

The level 3 shipyards are for the MC40 Valiant-class light cruiser and the MC30 Ardent-class frigate.

[smashedsaturn]

The level 3 shipyards are for the MC40 Valiant-class light cruiser and the MC30 Ardent-class frigate.

I think you misunderstood me. I know he tech tree, however I am talking of the planets in the outer rim that include mon calimari and hast with different shipyard bonuses that are not set up for the best efficiency