16 replies to this topic

[johnchm.10]

so to run concurrently with the new ships poll, i thought id include new/updated heroes.
for the heroes already in game, im listing them because i feel they may be missing an upgrade
note: my criteria for the new heroes is as follows: heroes that have been in more than one novel/comic/w/e, made contributions to the war, and that first appeared prior to the end of the GCW
i shall detail their progression down here
oh, and some of these would be dependent on potential new models
new craft and heroes are Bolded

Ackbar: solo B-wing --> B-wing Squadron --> MC120 Independence "Home One" --> MC90 "Defiance" or "Galactic Voyager".

Han Solo: the Falcon --> MC80B "Mon Remonda" (you knew it was coming) --> upgraded Falcon (see Black Fleet Crisis, but probably mainly a general upgrade to most of the systems, with the quad lasers being replaced at some point with Light Turbolasers.)

Horton Salm: solo Y-wing --> Y-wing squadron --> Y-wing Fighter Wing "Defender" --> B-wing Fighter Wing "Defender" --> Imperial 2-class Star Destroyer "Moonshadow"

Kam Solusar: solo I-7 Howlrunner--> small Transport (i seem to recall him leading a raid on the Eclipse, and he did eventually become the Caretaker for the Jedi Academy, would would warrant the usage of at least a Transport for stuff like Field Trips, Evacuations, Supply Runs, etc)

Keyan Farlander: solo X-wing --> solo B-wing --> B-wing Squadron --> MC80B "Mon Adapyne" (ok, i know he got the Adap. in the Vong War, but if the MC80B is going to be included, might as well give another hero the keys)

Mara Jade Skywalker --> solo Headhunter --> Personal Luxury Yacht 3000 "Jade's Fire" --> solo J-model X-wing or E-wing (again, Vong War, and again, the models are in the mod already)

Herbert from Family guy. im kidding Obi-Wan. solo Delta-7 --> solo Eta-3 --> Eta-3 Squadron --> Acclamator class Transport/Frigate --> Venator-class Star Destroyer

Wedge: Solo X-wing --> X-wing Squadron "Rogue", Line-up 1 (Post Hoth, Pre Endor) --> X-wing Squadron "Rogue", Line-up 2 (X-wing Comic series), --> X-wing Squadron Line-up 3 (X-wing novels.) --> Imperial 3-class Star Destroyer "Allegiance" --> modded EF76 "Yavaris" --> Executor class Star Dreadnought "Lusankya" --> Dominator-3 class Star Destroyer "Mon Mothma"

Wraith Squadron --> standard elite X-wing squadron --> mixed X-wing and TIE Interceptor squadron --> upgraded X-wing elite squadron

Booster Terrick --> small transport (placeholder for the Pulsar Skate) --> Imperial 2-class Star Destroyer "Errant Venture"

Mirax Terrick --> small transport (upgraded variant of the placeholder for the Skate)

Corran Horn --> solo X-wing --> X-wing Squadron "Rogue" (again, Vong era, but the guy does have appearances, both minor and major in just about every book that was written after the character was created and that takes place after Endor. even has his own book. and it works with my Rogue Squadron hero device that im about to introduce)

Talon Karrde: small Transport --> CEC Action-VI Freighter "Wild Karrde"

Pash Cracken: solo A-wing --> A-wing Flight Group "Cracken's Flight Group" --> Immobilizer 418 Cruiser "Memory of Ithor"

Garm Bel Ilbis: CEC CR-90 (i can see him being a fan of CEC products, and the CR-90 was used as a Diplomatic transport) --> Dreadnought class Heavy Cruiser "Peregrine" --> Dominator 3-class Star Destroyer "Bail Organa" (i know that in the mod you have him running the Elgos A'kla. theyre both Dom-3's.) --> large Mon Calamari Star Cruiser "Harbinger" (probably either Mediator or Viscount class. this one i wouldnt worry about, as i imagine that an MC90 with some small upgrades could match or beat a Dominator-3, and the MC90 is higher up on the chain than the Viscount or Mediator, due to the MC90 having more users and that it is likely that the MC90 would have gotten some upgrades by the time the Mediator and Viscounts were introduced)

Rogue Squadron:
given that the Squadron had 3 Commanders during the Galactic Civil War (4 if you want to include Gavin, and a 5th if you include when Corran was running it at Ebaq 9), you could have multiple levels of the unit. example, when the squad was under Luke (0-4 ABY), the squad could fly C-models.
when Wedge was running the unit in 4-10 ABY, they could run with the F-model.
Tycho (10-19 ABY) could have them flying the I-model, as im pretty sure the E-wing's introduction would have encouraged Incom to upgrade the fighter a bit more.
Gavin, since he was in the squadron from (6 or 7, i forget which one) ABY, then became Rogue Leader at the close of the Galactic Civil War, would probably count, as he commanded them from the war's beginning to Ebaq 9.( i can only guess that having Corran commanding the Rogues had something to do with the Battle Meditation technique) the squad could use the J model, as they had to have been becoming more common, and the J model and the A3 (or whatever model) could be the same fighter, but using different designations, one Civilian, the other Military, much like the M-16 and AR-15 rifle being the same overall weapon (the parts are the same with 1 or 2 exceptions).
if implemented, Corran could have the squad flying J's or J3's.
this would be somewhat realistic, as Elite Units tend to have more leeway with things like upgrades

an additional note, even though i dont think it needs to be stated: the hero ships are likely going to be upgraded from the baseline ship in some way. whether thats changing standard Turbolasers to Double Turbolasers or Heavy Turbolasers, or just having a better Compliment of Fighters

notes: for the write in's, again, CHARACTERS INTRODUCED IN THE GCW ONLY, AND AS ADULTS. if they got different ships after the end of the GCW, sure, ok, fine. if the ship is already in the mod, or is one of the ones in the New Alliance ships poll, ok fine.

well, enjoy

if i missed anything in the ship progression, let me know and i shall correct it. if there are any questions, ask and ill answer

Edited by johnchm.10, 14 July 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[smashedsaturn]

Ackbar should stay with his final upgrade as the gladiator, Wedge should stay with the Luskanya, flip the IMPIII and the E76 and then have the DOMIII, although it is out of order it makes absolutely no sense to downgrade from a capital ship gamewise; or a SSD for that matter

[johnchm.10]

im using the accepted chronological information. and as for the Lusankya, well, she was destroyed, and the replacement he commanded was a Dominator-3
Ackbar switched his flag over to the MC90s from Dark Empire onwards, and the MC90 was regarded as more powerful than the MC80, the class of which Home One officially belonged to. remember, the Mon Cal Cruisers WERE converted Luxury liners prior to the MC90

Edited by johnchm.10, 14 July 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[smashedsaturn]

im using the accepted chronological information. and as for the Lusankya, well, she was destroyed, and the replacement he commanded was a Dominator-3
Ackbar switched his flag over to the MC90s from Dark Empire onwards, and the MC90 was regarded as more powerful than the MC80, the class of which Home One officially belonged to. remember, the Mon Cal Cruisers WERE converted Luxury liners prior to the MC90

Yes, but she wouldn't be destroyed in game unless you let it happen, I love how we stick to cannon, but after you take command I think it diverges a bit.

[MawDrallin]

I have a few changes from your list:

*Gial Ackbar - B-wing (Already in the mod) --- MC120 "Home One" (I shouldn't have to explain this) --- MC90 Star Cruiser "Galactic Voyager" (I seem to remember him using this flagship once before, but I can't remember well) --- Executor-class SSD "Guardian" (When this ship was captured by the New Republic, it was transfered to the Third Fleet, under the command of Ackbar, and he used the Guardian as his flagship during many skirmishes against the Imperial Remnant)

*Wedge Antilles - X-wing (Red Squadron pilot) --- X-wing Squadron (I, again, shouldn't have to explain this) --- Nebulon-B "Yavaris" (He commanded the frigate for a while, if memory serves me right) --- Executor-class SSD "Lusankya" (I need no explanation) --- Dominator-III "Mon Mothma" (Yes, I know, downgrades stink, but it's canon and it get's frustrating trying to maneuver those huge Super Star Destroyers around)

*Talon Karrde - Action-VI "Wild Karrde" (Really, you want to give him a smaller ship than this? What do you want him to do, pilot an escape pod?)

[johnchm.10]

maw, if you notice, i put down the proper ships as they appear in the mod. hang on let me bold the new ones

point taken with the Guardian, although as you might have gathered, im not a fan of the Executor

wedge: the Dom-3 has advantages compared to the Executor. lower profile, better real and hyperspace performance, the gun turrets are of an upgraded design, dual heavys as opposed to single mount heavys, hell, the Dom-3 even has some advantages over the ISD series. and thats the standard Dom-3. i can see wedge getting an upgraded Dom-3 or even a Dom-4

Talon Karrde: i imagine him having something other than the Wild Karrde when he started out, like a souped up YT-series or something along those lines, or even a standard/less extensively modified Action VI

Edited by johnchm.10, 14 July 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Kitkun]

There's no way a Dom-3 can be considered an upgrade over an Executor except the gravity well and hyperspace.

Can't agree with Obi-wan, that was from the Clone Wars, he no longer has access to that stuff.

Not entirely sure on Booster. A lot of the time he was not with the rebels and the Errant Venture was stripped down to civilian ship grades.

Rogue squadron... too many little upgrades. Especially since it's all fighter upgrades, they'd all be fairly cheap and available from the same place.

I'd much prefer to stick to canon, so unless there's good reason for a transport for Karrde and the like... and shouldn't Vong era stuff be the exception for balance rather than the rule?

Does anyone else wonder how being an expert fighter pilot qualifies one to command capital ships?

Edited by Kitkun, 14 July 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[P.O._210877]

Does anyone else wonder how being an expert fighter pilot qualifies one to command capital ships?

"Hey! It's me."

[johnchm.10]

Dom 3: nominally, his command was Mon Mothma. he only got Lusankya for the Borlieas Defense. that and i never said that the Dominator-3 was an upgrade, only that it has advantages
Obi-wan: it was just a thought.
Booster: i could accept a downgrade in armaments. just so long as the ship is REALLY Red.
Rogues: again, just an idea.
Karrde: point taken, i only threw it in because he had to have started somewhere
Vong era equipment: im primarily referring to the Dominator-3, already in use with some other heroes.
ok, with Wedge getting the command of Capital Ships, my guess is that he was given the job due to a lack of enough good officers, or something along those lines, and that since he was very familiar with Imperial Naval and Starfighter equipment and tactics

[MawDrallin]

Does anyone else wonder how being an expert fighter pilot qualifies one to command capital ships?

ok, with Wedge getting the command of Capital Ships, my guess is that he was given the job due to a lack of enough good officers, or something along those lines, and that since he was very familiar with Imperial Naval and Starfighter equipment and tactics

I got this straight from Wookieepedia:

"In 9 ABY, Antilles accepted the promotion to general that his friend, Supreme Commander Gial Ackbar, had long desired for him. As a general, he reluctantly moved out of the cockpit and into a role in fleet operations, frequently commanding the Star Dreadnought Lusankya."

[johnchm.10]

at any rate, as i said, there are advantages to having the smaller Dominator. i never said that it would be a full-fledged upgrade. and with the right tactics, a small unit of Imperial or Dominator or Tector class Star Destroyers could do just as much if not more damage than the Executor. granted they werent available, but look what Thrawn managed to do without the Executors.
and the way i imagine it, ships like Lusankya and Guardian were used only when the situation required it, i.e. facing LARGE numbers of enemy ships, or other SSD's, and that during times when such firepower isnt required, the ships are assigned to a reserve or secret fleet/station. hell, there was barely a mention of either Lusankya or Guardian for the majority of the NJO series, which is kinda sad, given that having a ship with such raw firepower would have reversed the course of many battles.
granted such large scale battles that would normally warrant the use of the Executor are not uncommon in the mod, but even then, with the right tactics and equipment, you dont need one

[MawDrallin]

Oh, and I also would like to see Carlist Rieekan in the mod. Being a major player in the Rebellion, and also continued to serve the New Republic through the Thrawn Campaign and Shadow Hand, I was actually kind of shocked when I found out he wasn't part of the mod.

[smashedsaturn]

at any rate, as i said, there are advantages to having the smaller Dominator. i never said that it would be a full-fledged upgrade. and with the right tactics, a small unit of Imperial or Dominator or Tector class Star Destroyers could do just as much if not more damage than the Executor. granted they werent available, but look what Thrawn managed to do without the Executors.
and the way i imagine it, ships like Lusankya and Guardian were used only when the situation required it, i.e. facing LARGE numbers of enemy ships, or other SSD's, and that during times when such firepower isnt required, the ships are assigned to a reserve or secret fleet/station. hell, there was barely a mention of either Lusankya or Guardian for the majority of the NJO series, which is kinda sad, given that having a ship with such raw firepower would have reversed the course of many battles.
granted such large scale battles that would normally warrant the use of the Executor are not uncommon in the mod, but even then, with the right tactics and equipment, you dont need one

There are no advantages to having the dominator instead of the executor, and there is no way Imperial Star Destroyers could do as much damage as an executor unless you had hundreds of them, with the pop cap as low as it is this is simply impractical.

[johnchm.10]

Oh, and I also would like to see Carlist Rieekan in the mod. Being a major player in the Rebellion, and also continued to serve the New Republic through the Thrawn Campaign and Shadow Hand, I was actually kind of shocked when I found out he wasn't part of the mod.

hes already in the mod.

at any rate, as i said, there are advantages to having the smaller Dominator. i never said that it would be a full-fledged upgrade. and with the right tactics, a small unit of Imperial or Dominator or Tector class Star Destroyers could do just as much if not more damage than the Executor. granted they werent available, but look what Thrawn managed to do without the Executors.
and the way i imagine it, ships like Lusankya and Guardian were used only when the situation required it, i.e. facing LARGE numbers of enemy ships, or other SSD's, and that during times when such firepower isnt required, the ships are assigned to a reserve or secret fleet/station. hell, there was barely a mention of either Lusankya or Guardian for the majority of the NJO series, which is kinda sad, given that having a ship with such raw firepower would have reversed the course of many battles.
granted such large scale battles that would normally warrant the use of the Executor are not uncommon in the mod, but even then, with the right tactics and equipment, you dont need one

There are no advantages to having the dominator instead of the executor, and there is no way Imperial Star Destroyers could do as much damage as an executor unless you had hundreds of them, with the pop cap as low as it is this is simply impractical.

the former Imperial ships used by the New Republic are typically upgraded to some degree from their basic design. whether they have enhanced shields, guns, fire-control systems, fighters, etc, or a combination of the above systems. that and their overall strategy was never one of brute force or superior numbers. im thinking in terms of their usage in the game as well as in the universe.

[Kitkun]

Not really. The NR used plenty of stock ISDs and even stock TIEs iirc. It's only much later when the EU has to show some technological development that the ships get upgraded.

Edited by Kitkun, 15 July 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[smashedsaturn]

Oh, and I also would like to see Carlist Rieekan in the mod. Being a major player in the Rebellion, and also continued to serve the New Republic through the Thrawn Campaign and Shadow Hand, I was actually kind of shocked when I found out he wasn't part of the mod.

hes already in the mod.

at any rate, as i said, there are advantages to having the smaller Dominator. i never said that it would be a full-fledged upgrade. and with the right tactics, a small unit of Imperial or Dominator or Tector class Star Destroyers could do just as much if not more damage than the Executor. granted they werent available, but look what Thrawn managed to do without the Executors.
and the way i imagine it, ships like Lusankya and Guardian were used only when the situation required it, i.e. facing LARGE numbers of enemy ships, or other SSD's, and that during times when such firepower isnt required, the ships are assigned to a reserve or secret fleet/station. hell, there was barely a mention of either Lusankya or Guardian for the majority of the NJO series, which is kinda sad, given that having a ship with such raw firepower would have reversed the course of many battles.
granted such large scale battles that would normally warrant the use of the Executor are not uncommon in the mod, but even then, with the right tactics and equipment, you dont need one

There are no advantages to having the dominator instead of the executor, and there is no way Imperial Star Destroyers could do as much damage as an executor unless you had hundreds of them, with the pop cap as low as it is this is simply impractical.

the former Imperial ships used by the New Republic are typically upgraded to some degree from their basic design. whether they have enhanced shields, guns, fire-control systems, fighters, etc, or a combination of the above systems. that and their overall strategy was never one of brute force or superior numbers. im thinking in terms of their usage in the game as well as in the universe.

From a balance perspective, it's simply dumb to downgrade form an executor, I don't care how you hash it, it's dumb. An executor is pretty much it's own fleet, as such one could take probably 30 tector/ISD 4, at least, not to mention it's a hero ship,m which has no population anyways, meaning on top of the executor you can have 96 pop of escorts.

[johnchm.10]

upon thinking this further, i would still take a Dominator 4 over an Executor. and there is precedence in the mod and in the universe.
Baron Fel goes from commanding a mk.2 Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruiser to a squadron of TIE Interceptor x2's in the Mod. which is a more dramatic downgrade, given that the Interceptors lack shields and weapons heavier than Light Laser Cannons.
i cant stand the way the Executor maneuvers in-mod.
well, i cant stand most things about the Executor in the mod.
i never build anything from the level 5 yards aside from the heroes