62 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Rising]

Adding new building will always be dependent on models. Nertea is capable, but they're not fun to do. The Space Colony does add population capacity, so at least there's that option.

[Kitkun]

Not sure how I missed this, but it makes me drool.

[halmal242]

Just out of curiosity, how do you add a new global resource to the game? I am referring to the food effect that you are talking about. I have been looking for resource definitions for a while and can't figure out how the game handles it.

[evilbobthebob]

It's an abstract concept, not an actual number in the game engine. It exists in our extensive spreadsheets.

[halmal242]

So there is no way to add a new dynamic resource similar to population?

[evilbobthebob]

It should be possible using Lua scripting, but it would also be very difficult and could potentially cause performance problems.

[Ghostrider]

Just so you understand the "food" concept us used to create a demographic model of planetary economics, slots and eventually galactic population by a rather large spreadshee,t I have developed over the last couple of years.

The figures that actually go into the mod are Space slots, land slots, Planetary population and Planetary value.

[halmal242]

So while a planet, Coruscant for example, might have a extremely high population and a high income they would likely have little to no ground slots as the City is taking up all the locations. Space is up to what you guys decide is its own variable. This is an interesting way to do this without adding an additional resource.

[P.O._210877]

Nope, Coruscant has lots of land slots. The logic goes, generally. like this: higher demographics go hand in hand with larger numbers (land slots, tax revenues, etc.)

[Ghostrider]

In fact the amount of "slots" available is more based on your ability to terraform the planet. It's no problem for a planetary government to allocate a square mile of land for a military base in an urbanised setting (eg Coruscant's 8 Slots), but it's a lot harder to find building land in say a swamp, or highly mountainous terrain.
We then appliy a civilisation modifier which adds further slots for high planetary populations and a small bonus for factory type worlds.
If you have very harsh conditions, eg toxic atmosphere, then you get fewer slots.

Planets now range from 1 to 8 slots. If the terrain is fairly flat, then expect at least 4-5 land slots.

[halmal242]

What about a highly agrarian type planet where there are many open fields that can be converted to industry or a population center like a high rise population center?  Would this not warrant more open land building spaces as opposed to a place where something is already built.  Basically using the urban planning idea of green space is easier to build on than brown/grey space.

[halmal242]

The more I think about this the more I am curious how you are doing the numbers for this.  I know its being a little nosy but this is a really interesting way to do population distribution throughout the galaxy.  How are you doing population per unit?  Coruscant has 1 trillion people on on it at any time, how does this translate into hard numbers for fleet population points?  I am not doubting how you are doing your calculations its just professional curiosity what is your threshold conversion number.

[johnchm.10]

in terms of agrarian vs. urban, i would imagine that there would be no advantage for 1 over the other. it may seem simplistic, but look at a gym like Gold's Gym, or Synergy. those can be built in urban areas or in suburban, or agrarian areas with no problem, the only thing is that in the case of the urban gym, there may be multiple floors that individually are smaller than the 1 floor of the gym in the suburban/agrarian/rural areas, but will still have the same square footage

[Ghostrider]

 

The more I think about this the more I am curious how you are doing the numbers for this.  I know its being a little nosy but this is a really interesting way to do population distribution throughout the galaxy.  How are you doing population per unit?  Coruscant has 1 trillion people on on it at any time, how does this translate into hard numbers for fleet population points?  I am not doubting how you are doing your calculations its just professional curiosity what is your threshold conversion number.

 
The actual calucalation for planetary population contribution is pretty heavy and very complex.
Firstly we turn the actual civilian planetary population into a "population rank", which is a modified log function of the plantary population. Pop^(2/3) x Log(2)

For the non-tecchies out there, Coruscant's 1 trillion population spits out a log function of 256, while a standard Core world of about 5 billion has a score of 90, while a small outer rim planet of 1 million has a figure of 25.

This log function is then used as the primary base for taxation income among other things.

Now this is where the spreadsheet gets very complex, very fast. Remember the 5000 data points I mentioned. We have about 18 distinct propertes for each planet, from terrain type, planetary diameter, pollution levels, technical ability, mining resources, intergalactic trade, planetary size, farming ability, crime, atmosphere type, shipbuild skills, artistic talents and so on.
From these values, we determine agricultural (food) output, which has a big effect on planetary population, subtract a proportion of the food that the planet actually eats (about 100 population points in the case of Coruscant), and then add a population bonus for intergalactic trade, which is influenced by technical skills and the presence of major shipyards and factories. We also add an amount of trade to reflect standard civilian demand, which increases as the popualtion expands.
Coruscant's trillions contribute about 150 population points due to trade so the final population score becomes:
Food Produced (0) - Food Eaten (107) + Galactic Trade + Mining & Industrial Production + Civilian demand (165) = +58

Population scores for each planet currently range from -5 or so to +400 or more for the big agri-worlds.

Just to give you an idea of the scale involved, my spreadsheet to calculate this currently runs at 60 columns wide by 300 rows deep, or some 18,000 different cells - all filled with numbers!


As to land slots for agri-worlds vs Urban areas, there is a base number of slots given due to terrain type and ease of terraforming, plus bonues for high population levels, which increase techncial resources to allow for a bigger base.

We think there is little difficulty in flattening a sqare mile of urbanisation to make a military base. Ever seen a construction droid in action???

[Theotian]

I have an idea i broke it down to bare bones since it may be too late to add in alot :

Well what if certain planets will have more recruits available based on sentiment for instance (throwing numbers out) the empire would be able to recruit say 20000 soldiers on Tarsis because they are loyal to them in land battles, but if the rebels have Tarsis they would lose 25 percent of the volunteer force sue to anti rebel sentiment.

 

That is the base of what i thought but if you felt the need you could expand it to where sentiment can change based on actions.For instance the rebels got a flood of recruits after Yavin 4 because no one thought you could win against the empire. Maybe winning a battle will give you a small bonus like 5 percent to all planets for 2 months time.Or maybe the rebels would get a higher bonus than the empire for being underdogs in the eyes of the people.

Also as the empire of rebels although you will get bonuses for whipping out civilian buildings on planets during battles if you do that you will lose a percent of volunteers due to atrocities.

What do you think?

[Ghostrider]

Politics is all very well, as per Rebellion, but there is no mechanism for this in EAW. 

In-game this simply boils down to : build barracks on said planet and recruit Army Platoons or SecForce Platoons. 

 

This game engine has planets held either by one faction or by another. There is no possibility of having Rebel cells on Imperial-held planets. 

 

If you actually look at the Canon, you find that in most GCW-era conflicts that one side controls a planet while the other side attacks. The difference on-planet after the takeover is very different though depending on which faction wins. 

[abesinay]

So just out of curiosity, how's the mod going?

[Ghostrider]

Rather well. Made LOTS of progress in various sectors. PR's due to write some news once he's wrapped up his current bit of work.

[abesinay]

Awesome! That'll be great to read, even if it is loaded with all manners of technical jargon.

[Wolvessong Heathin]

in all intents and purposes this mod is by far one of the most ambitious mods ive seen for both eaw and foc combined. i just hope that 1.3 isnt too far ahead in terms of a release date but then again the longer you take the better the mod will become so please take all the time in the world that you can muster to create this mod.