46 replies to this topic

[Pasidon]

http://www.youtube.c...PVjHXKQ&index=2

 

Just got done watching this vid.  Yes... the whole thing.  It's a topic about an upcoming game, Dragon's Crown.  TotalBiscuit discusses a review written by some lady, and it's a negative review of the game due to the horribly obvious sex appeal the developers decided to throw into the game.  Two characters in particular are horribly proportioned and sneezed up to be purely sex appealing.  The enchantress, with obnoxiously large breasts even puts her arms behind her head when she runs. Hmmmm... well there's no denying the pandering. 

 

But yea... pandering.  A term TB used, and one that hits on the media world as a whole.  This includes film and TV, not just games.  You can also look at other products as well, but the issue doesn't hit elsewhere as hard.  The issue here is that media uses obvious sex appeal tactics to sell its shows, among selling other things. Merchandising!  Merchandising! So here's what this topic is asking:

 

-Is using sex appeal to sell and advertise fair to consumers?

-Is it fair to women's image?

 

Considering there re no females here, I do predict this debate to be some-what one sided, but I don't mind being horribly surprised.

[duke_Qa]

Spoiler

 

Isn't all of the characters in that game somewhat horribly proportioned or the anti-thesis of it? that big knight thing on the male side must be our version of it. The ranger elf  must be a sensible interpretation of a less sexualized woman. And that barbarian isn't really sexy in my opinion, at least half of the art of her makes her look more like one of these competetive muscle-women.

 

It just becomes too over-the-edge for me to gain anything from it, but I understand that its been a successful PR-campaign .

 

But I guess this isn't as much a question of balance in the game, as it is about pandering to the lowest denominator. As long as one character is a sex-bomb that on a 10-point scale goes to 11, you've dropped enough black paint into the white that it will forever be grey. Pandering is a nice word in this context, as it can mean so much for different people. Some people who are fanatic will never accept a drop of pandering in any form, and will try to kill it with fire whenever they approach it. Personally I suspect most of the readers of this forum are experts at consuming pandering media though. Be it computer games, magazines or pron.

 

I guess the main problem for many is that this game balances on the edge of a cliff, where you have 18+ on one side and 11+ on the other. If it was apparent from the get-go that this would be much more focused on the 16+ crowd(which I think it is anyway, but offended people don't care about that), things might have gone without controversy. 

Edited by duke_Qa, 02 August 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Well, you have the ever-present beer advertising, undeniably oversexualised. What was that, Jack Daniel's? Anyway, I don't drink, but they are memorable, even for the not-that-way-inclined, for the abundance of it. And that (rather amusing) Tampax advert with the shark? Of course they'll use images like that, I mean, as long as the companies make a profit from it, it's going to be used as the seller's propaganda. That much I have no problem with, however onto the subject of games... it's unnecessary. It doesn't sell more games, indeed for the younger generation (excluding Japan, from my experience) it puts teens off because they don't want to play it in front of their parents, nor have them walk in at innappropriate moments.

Yes, pretty well-known games such as God of War and Mass Effect are known to display this, the former rather explicitly, however it's ot their selling point, and I disagree with any game developers who advertise their game with sexual content as a selling-point (unless you're attempting to sell Katawa Shouju, the notorious 4chan 'game'. Which I think is free anyway).

[duke_Qa]

 

Yes, pretty well-known games such as God of War and Mass Effect are known to display this, the former rather explicitly, however it's not their selling point, and I disagree with any game developers who advertise their game with sexual content as a selling-point (unless you're attempting to sell Katawa Shouju, the notorious 4chan 'game'. Which I think is free anyway).

 

 

 

That sort of leaves about 95% of media with adult female humans/humanoids in them as "media that uses sexual content as selling points." Do you disagree with all of them as well?

 

As humans we are programmed to react to sexual content, and not using it in to describe something in a universe that tries to emulate humans would be a sterile experience IMO.

I guess we can live on children cartoons and larger-than-life teenage dramas without any of the sort, but I suspect we are going to notice in the end that it's lobotomized.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

No, my point is that in advertising campaigns, you don't see breasts, perfectly-shaped faces and thin waists to draw attention to it. They aren't the thing that draws the consumer in, and that much I approve of. True, it might feature them, but the developers don't use it as the main attraction, unlike those cheap crappy online warlord/civilization themed games where all the Flash adverts you get are of big-breasted submissive-looking Queens to yourself the King. It disgusts me.

 

I'm not saying we should avoid the subject, but making it less prevalent should be focussed on.

[duke_Qa]

Ah yes those sort of commercials. That's not just one of many selling points though, those have that as the major selling point. And once you get into the game you barely ever see any of it ever again. This game called scarlet blade was hilariously reviewed by a guy here

[DIGI_Byte]

you have to look at what it is in particular, yes 'sex sells' but what is the product?

advertising should represent its product, that being its an RPG, and at 5:13 of that video he hits it right on the head.

the sex appeal from the characters is purely self advertising, its not needed. but they flaunt it. should it be there? no, it serves no purpose to an RPG, its not an adult sim game, so that kind of content isn't sutable

you can argue that its just character design, but its not, its game content. and if the game content has explicit material or highly suggestive and it doesn't aim or need to then it is in the wrong place.

as for sex in the media, its been heavily monotanized in the past and the line draws at 'nipples' but lets be honest, painting or covering only the nipples doesn't do anything, as a comedian once said. you may as well only censor the tip of a cock and leave the shaft.
fairness and decency are what the issue is, it can be a grey area because you can shrug it off and not care.

at the end of the day, the content should always reflect the core mechanic, and know where it stands. throwing in provocative content derails the main purpose of this game, and many others of it and like myself are disgusted by it and its not because of my preference in the content but because I follow a certain level of decency, respect and intelligence. its others choices if they want to be barbaric 12yo kids and 'fap' over such material, but its not needed.
to summarize, its useless 'smut' that does nothing for the game itself other then excessive 'eye candy' which many don't agree on.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

Sex doesn't sell that well any more there's been an oversaturation over the last 20+ years even in the game industry.

You can only push an envelope so far.

[Pasidon]

I dunno, Rad.  I recall a game on Steam ealier this year (darned if I remembered its name or cared) that was at the top of the sell charts.  It was just shooty-shoot nonsense that got terrible ratings.  Well why was it at the top of the sell charts is it was so poorly rated?  Welll... the half nude woman who glared at you on the front of the Steam front page for weeks may had something to do with it.  Even Game of Thrones gets alot of pervy perv pervs pandered to since it features a nude woman about every episode.  Sure, the book is apparently much worse, but it could be a little less obvious fan service to the dullards who watch for that nonsense.  Lots of shows do that... The Borgias, Boardwalk Empire, and ever Dexter (the earlier seasons even had Claudia Black making a few extra bucks by being nude several times).  Yea, yea... we get it, media.  You super adult.  Very impressive.  When do intelligent consumers get pandering?  I want scenes of historic scientists and people reading large hard-back books, wearing monocles, lesure suits and mustaches forced on people.

Ah yes those sort of commercials. That's not just one of many selling points though, those have that as the major selling point. And once you get into the game you barely ever see any of it ever again. This game called scarlet blade was hilariously reviewed by a guy here

Still beats WoW.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

But the thing is these days it's really easy to see the naked ladies so the power of using boobs to sell stuff isn't as powerful any more since the internet is full of naked ladies doing all the sick shit we want.

Even celebrity nudity is abundant with a google search.

Maybe the pervs buying this stuff aren't just perverted but also stupid and don't know about the internet.

[Pasidon]

Neh, maybe.  I guess one should say people have a similar addiction to violence.  Another topic, that one be.

[Martinoz]

"TotalBiscuit discusses a review written by some lady, and it's a negative review of the game due to the horribly obvious sex appeal the developers decided to throw into the game.  Two characters in particular are horribly proportioned and sneezed up to be purely sex appealing.  The enchantress, with obnoxiously large breasts even puts her arms behind her head when she runs. Hmmmm... well there's no denying the pandering. "
They should be f*****g ugly and obese with no teeth and acnes everywhere, small almost non visible breasts - then review would be ok.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

@Rad, the difference is, you can choose to watch porn. If you don't want to have that type of stuff thrown at you all the time, it's not really fair.

[Pasidon]

There is a difference between porn and media sex appeal... it's putting nasty stuff in well written contexts to appeal to people who like that smut stuff.

 

They should be f*****g ugly and obese with no teeth and acnes everywhere, small almost non visible breasts - then review would be ok.

Awww... that would be incredi-cool.

[MattTheLegoman]

I hate advertisements. It plays on every sort of appeal there is only to get your monies. The bigger picture is consumerism which is worse than drugs.
Getting back to over the top females in media - just to get everyone but gay men interested - it's socially acceptable p##########. I hate it as well.

[Pasidon]

Everyone but gay men, he says...

[Bofur]

To be honest, they're usually way too over the top for me to find them very attractive... It doesn't really work, except for lone old men.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

You find lonely old men attractive Bofur?

[Pasidon]

I got what I came for...

[Bofur]

Thanks for that, Irenë. You know what I meant and Pas, that's what she said.