83 replies to this topic

[AdmiralGT]

You have to remember that these web designer's are the ones doing the work. you cant expect them to show 100% dedication to a project they don't work for and for free? i mean really i know its a free service but free services have limits! i think the artists should choose on what projects would fit their interests.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's called Charity and "doing good deeds". Tell that to the millions of people who are part of the Red Cross, St John's Ambulance and numerous other charities who give up their time (for free) to help others with 100% dedication.

Let's imagine I'm selling GT "Choco Bars" on my stall. Today, I'm being particularly generous and offering them for free. I've even put up a sign saying "Free Choco Bars for anyone who wants one". Unsurprisingly, because my Choco Bars are so popular a large queue forms. Unfortunately, I don't have enough Choco Bars for everyone in the queue, but I can make some more, it will just take a while longer.

Now, what's being suggested here is that, I can freely walk up and down the line of people queueing for my Choco Bars and hand them out to whomever I want. Next, I can hand out some "Extra Tasty" Choco Bars or "Low Fat" Choco Bars to some people in the queue merely because they're "Upper Class".

Now ask yourselves, is this fair? I'm not suggesting you churn them out as fast as possible, I'm suggesting that you just operate a fair system.

[Detail]

If you take the moral high ground on what is fair and what is not, then you must also take the high ground on allowing freedom. Sure you can tell people about a fair system, but in you last post you were ordering them to use a fair system.

[AdmiralGT]

If you take the moral high ground on what is fair and what is not, then you must also take the high ground on allowing freedom. Sure you can tell people about a fair system, but in you last post you were ordering them to use a fair system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Freedom allows you to do anything, Morals allow you to do the right thing. If you want to support an unjust system then fine, I will think very little of you if you do. If Revora is going to be run on a system of "I'll pat your back, you pat my back" then in my eyes, Revora has failed. Next time your queueing for something, I'll be sure to jump straight in front of you since you won't mind me getting served before you.

Edited by AdmiralGT, 15 October 2005 - 12:08 PM.

[Detail]

If it is a choice between
- Revora making everyone be fair and do things equal
and
- Revora allowing freedom
then Revora has always been about freedoms.

Revora will encorage fair and equal, but not enforce it.

[AdmiralGT]

Fairness is not the same as equality. Everyone cannot be equal, but you can offer the same opportunity to everyone, and be fair. Not every child is as clever as the next, but they are all offered the chance to go to the same school.

There is no such thing as Freedom. Once person's freedom is another person's cage. If you allow someone the freedom of having guest posting off, you deny the guest the freedom of posting. You have the freedom to talk in a hidden forum, you deny the others the chance to speak in that forum.

To offer Freedom, you must offer Fairness. Denying people a service is not Freedom, denying people the opportunity to wait in line is not Freedom, denying people a personal service because they offer you nothing is not Freedom.

You offer Freedom to those who offer you something in return. That isn't Freedom, that's egotistical. You help run a community and yet you don't even know what it means to be part of a community. Communities help each other. You only help people who offer something in return.

[Detail]

all getting a bit confusing.
I think i'll back away slowing saying; Blodo and Tornado are the ones making the layouts and it should be up to them how they order it. They can be fair if they like or unfair if they like, it's up to them.

[Hostile]

My thoughts are, if they do anything at all we'd be happy, so let them choose what they want to do. They're doing it for free. Can't be picky when you aren't doing the HARD work.

Morals and ethics aside, they don't have to do anything if they don't want. How can you argue? We should be glad they're doing it at all.

If a perfect world, you're right, this isn't a perfect world, it's Revora.

[Banshee]

this isn't a perfect world, it's Revora

It sounds like a slogan

[chemical ali]

We could put it on the t-shirts

[Shine On]

lol

Why can't we have a thread where people DON't start going on and dictating to each other about Freedom.

I really don't care what they do (like Hostile said) just that fact they will do something (when they get around to it) is a blessing

[Torn]

No mod is better than any other mod. Therefore, if you offer to make a personalised site for one mod, you should make a personalised site for every mod that asks. Your opinion on whether something is good or not is quite frankly, insignificant. You are not better than anyone else and therefore have no right to judge whether something is deemed good or not. You can have a personal opinion on something but it is merely an opinion, communities are based on sharing, not who knows the right people. Personal Templates for all, or Personal Templates for none.

You also shouldn't reject applications. If someone's application doesn't go into enough detail, ask for more so you can do what they want. How stupid does it look if you offer a free service and then decline to do so?

If your going to do a job, do the job, don't pussy foot around pretending you want to do and then never do because it doesn't "float your boat".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some mods are better than other mods. I may not be 'any better' than anyone else but when I'm making website templates for free we should be able to decide who gets prefferential treatment over others. All I'm asking is for mods to show some work and show that they are getting stuff done, rather than making a template for a mod that is doing nothing. Take your Elementis mod for example, you managed to get off the ground without a site, and then when it showed promise you got a site made for you. (not by us, but same principle). That's why I'm suggesting some generic templates for brand new mods who are just starting out, and they can change the banners and stuff. I expect you would of liked that for your mod too when you started, rather than just having a forum.

I didn't word the rejecting thing properly, sorry. I meant like, if someone submits an application and it's not detailed enough, we should tell them that it's not detailed enough and they can submit a new application that is more detailed.

I'm going to do the job, and I'm doing the job, shown by me already producing the first template for Project Raptor, and now going onto my next template.

And seriously, cut the crap about freedom and fairness. Hostile's got the right mentality about this, listen to him .

[Godwin]

ANYWAYS, I think the main ralert website needs some new visuals... you guys gonna do an overhaul or can I just make new image replacements?

[Athena]

I think that's being worked on, talk to Blodo to be sure .

[Banshee]

It is being overhauled, Godwin. The new design, as far as I could look, is really much, much, much better

[dancam]

I actually agree that hosted sites, when initially hosted should be able to pick a template, and get it 'personalised'. I would also go down the route of the hostees applying to their community manager, eg Lee for RCAlert, the community manager would be able to access their activity (using Hive information - when forms completed) and decide on that activity whether they would be eligible. That way, we could say that a community manager could reccomend one mod at a time from their group to be redesigned?

[Banshee]

Yea, that would be an interesting idea, but at the moment it could be bad. It created an intermediate step between the request the design, which means more bureaucracy. It also means more elitism when choosing which sites will be done first.

[Torn]

I'm now doing the RevHL template btw.

About the whole 'generic templates' thing, I spoke to Lee about it a few days ago and he likes the idea of having some generic templates for new mods too, that they can use with their banners and art etc.

[dancam]

To be honest Banshee, it is Elitism. However, why should we treat those who do the bare minimum to keep their hosting here, the same as those who spend hours working on their project? I for one would much rather spend my time helping someone who shows an obvious passion for what they are doing, regardless of the quality. I see it as a just reward for those who are working hard... Perhaps we could tie this in with project of the month at the Hive....

[Vader6]

Cancel the TCC site request, I got sick of waiting and did it myself
http://tcc.gamemod.net/Site/Main.html

[dancam]

Maybe you should have done it in the first place rather than trying to get someone else to do it for you? It's been known for a long time now that this was on hold...