19 replies to this topic

[Smeagolfan24]

... is apprenticeship. Imagine if every, or almost every, "new" modder had an experienced person informally teach them. The teacher would set his own scedule, set "assignments," and overall help his student enough as he thinks is sufficient. If this happened forum-wide, we'd have a lot more mods and a lot less "I have an idea..." threads.

It's a thought, coming from a person who feels somewhat overwealmed with the prospect of teaching myself to mod. Here's some pros and cons that I can think of:

Pros:
- More modders coming in and more experience all around
- More modders = more mods, and therefore more fun.
- It's a cycle; when a student is taught, "graduates," and learns some more on their own, another teacher is born.
- Much easier for people to get started with modding.
- It could be organized pretty well; people could "apply" for a specific area that they wanted to learn (even some oldies).
- Skills taught here could help someone in a possible future job. (animating, for instance)

Cons
- Somewhat time-consuming. People often don't have time for this, but the real pressure would be on the students to work to learn.
- Number of likely mods might get repetative and overwealming.
- The pride and joy of many modders is that they taught themselves. This would be lost slightly, but people do have the option of whether they want training.

What do you all think?

Edited by Smeagolfan24, 02 September 2007 - 11:16 PM.

[Mathijs]

Hello? What do you think all these tutorials are for?

[Nertea]

I already do this to a certain extent .

[Devon]

yeah, i agree with matias. tutorials are just as good as people except if u screw something up, and it takes more patience than learning from a person. if you have problems, you can talk to people on msn or w/e anyway and if you dont have the patience you probably shouldnt be modding in the first place

[Smeagolfan24]

I'm just saying that this would be more personal than something like a tutorial and more, in my opinion, beneficial and helpful for the learner.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

It's how I learned I had King Duku help me out when I started I owe him quite a bit.
I agree that this would be a great way to do things but it can be time consuming and distracting.It's all a matter of choice as to whether or not experienced modders have the time.I do this on a very small scale (well was).

[CNCM_BLITZ]

I follow the tutorials and when I have a problem I take it to the forums where people answer my questions at there leisure. This is how its always been done. And I am learning at my own pace. Dont fix it if it isnt broken. This isnt just "not broken" either; it's working great!

[Mathijs]

I'm just saying that this would be more personal than something like a tutorial and more, in my opinion, beneficial and helpful for the learner.

While I admit that I had quite some help and motivation from people like Dain, Nertea and Celeglin back in the day, I believe a full-blown apprenticeship isn't the right thing to do. It is very difficult to explain to people how photoshop works, how to move your mouse in a certain way to create the right effect, where all the buttons in 3dsmax are etc. It's because you aren't actually there with them, but explaining it through text. You learn it with trial and error, and extensive practise.

Although T3A already has a certain plan in this direction... all shall be revealed in time.

[ched]

It'd be very very time consuming. We cannot offer such services, but some modders may be willing to spend some time teaching others, and we are certainly not going to deny them that right

[Smeagolfan24]

Okay, I just wanted to see what people here thought of it.

[Herunor]

I'm just saying that this would be more personal than something like a tutorial and more, in my opinion, beneficial and helpful for the learner.

While I admit that I had quite some help and motivation from people like Dain, Nertea and Celeglin back in the day, I believe a full-blown apprenticeship isn't the right thing to do. It is very difficult to explain to people how photoshop works, how to move your mouse in a certain way to create the right effect, where all the buttons in 3dsmax are etc. It's because you aren't actually there with them, but explaining it through text. You learn it with trial and error, and extensive practise.

Although T3A already has a certain plan in this direction... all shall be revealed in time.

QFT

[halbarad]

hmm, the sort of people who make good modders are the sort of inquisitive person that goes, "i wonder how that works" and then they follows a trail in the code or simply search around to find out.

your also much more likely to remember something that you figured out how to do than something someone simply told you how to do.

[Sûlherokhh]

That is SOOO true, halbarad!

'Modders' simply are an inquisitive bunch. Think 'Evil Geniuses for a better tomorrow', hehe.

I only really remember stuff, if i have found out the hard way, making a lot of mistakes along the way. Very often it's the mistakes that really give you insight in the inner workings of the code or whatever it is you are learning.

[CNCM_BLITZ]

There is more to it than that Sûlherokhh. You learn from your mistakes of course. But trying out new things and making new ideas is what really gets you familiar with the whole system. Its how I learned to modify Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2.

Edited by CNCM_BLITZ, 04 September 2007 - 07:18 PM.

[halbarad]

but still, i learnt all the basics of how to mod by searching through the ini files myself and only asking a few questions to fellow modders, i guess its changed a bit since i started learning because back then everyone was learning to mod bfme but the principles remain the same.

[Sûlherokhh]

Well i guess ONE basic principle is: Try out yourself first, and try again after you fail the first time.

Another could be: Try something else next and come back to the first problem later, after gaining some new insight from a different angle. Sometimes solutions can be found in strange spots.

[Beleg]

I've learned all I know from myself
tinkering with the ini f

I've learned all I know from myself
tinkering with the ini files.

I have had little or no help from anyone
:)

Well i guess ONE basic principle is: Try out yourself first, and try again after you fail the first time.

Another could be: Try something else next and come back to the first problem later, after gaining some new insight from a different angle. Sometimes solutions can be found in strange spots.

Very True :)

[Giant Modder]

Indeed. That is what Istari Productions does but only to a certain extent. As many have said it is time consuming for people for example Nertea who may be making an awesome mod, only to be cut short by an apprenticeship.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

I can see a little ego stroking going on up there

[Sûlherokhh]

I can see a little ego stroking going on up there

Your scratching on a really wide field!