24 replies to this topic

[jdk002]

is it just me or that ship seem just a little too.. well, bright.

[Phoenix Rising]

It's not a great texture. It's basically one big, generic, tiling hull texture. If we're lucky, EvilleJedi has reskinned it (or skinned it) since releasing the model packs.

[sideshow_bob]

whatr kind of skin could we ideally expect?

[Phoenix Rising]

The Imperial-class has a beautifully-detailed skin if you look at that. But honestly, it's not up to me as I'm not the skinner.

[8492nd]

Hi there Phoenix , I've got a question about the Praetor. Don't you think it is a little weak ?
Praetor-class_Star_Battlecruiser
Wookieepedia states that it is powerful enough to withstand the attacks of an Executor with her escorts.
And here you are : shields and hull are approximately twice the strength of an Imperial-class .
It's defences are even weaker than it's counterpart the Independence-class.

Let's talk about the armament.
The armament is satisfying in comparison to the Independence-class but is disappointing for a warship as formidable as Wookieepedia describes.

Edited by 8492nd, 21 November 2007 - 07:02 PM.

[hotshot389]

The sheilds on the planet were powered by a preators powergenerator, but if you keep in mind that the area they were sheilding was smaller than the ship itsself and it was only powering sheilds, the ion cannon and the planets other defenses, not to mention the fact that the sheilds were generated by an experimental sheild generator that the empire had failed to obtain the plans for, then you get why they needed to resort to a ground assult to take the planet.
It does make sense that the Preator was powerful, but that it had enough power to withstand an executor in close combat is highly unlikely, you also have to remember that in an orbital bombardment the lasers are fired through the atmosphere of the planet, thus reduceing its power.

Edited by hotshot389, 21 November 2007 - 08:42 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Frankly, we don't know much of anything about the Praetor. The ship was added as a counterpoint to the Independence, but the name is somewhat arbitrary - it's really a depiction of the big battlecruisers from classic Marvel, which lack a robust name. So my choices are basically Procurator or Praetor, and perhaps the former would be more appropriate (Roman under-governor opposed to governor), but EvilleJedi named it "Praetor," so I sided with him for now. If I'm able to get a replacement for the 3200-range, I will probably revisit this ship, but not until then. Basically, I'm working with the models I have. Ideally:

Procurator-class Star Battlecruiser (~4800 m):


Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser (~6400 m):


Superior-class Star Battleship (8000 m):


Unknown CEC star battleship (6900-13400 m):

[8492nd]

The sheilds on the planet were powered by a preators powergenerator, but if you keep in mind that the area they were sheilding was smaller than the ship itsself and it was only powering sheilds, the ion cannon and the planets other defenses, not to mention the fact that the sheilds were generated by an experimental sheild generator that the empire had failed to obtain the plans for, then you get why they needed to resort to a ground assult to take the planet.
It does make sense that the Preator was powerful, but that it had enough power to withstand an executor in close combat is highly unlikely, you also have to remember that in an orbital bombardment the lasers are fired through the atmosphere of the planet, thus reduceing its power.

Thnx for the info .

Frankly, we don't know much of anything about the Praetor.

So how exactly did you get the idea for the armament ? I mean , how do you know it has 120 Turbolasers and 120 Ion cannons ? Wookieepedia does not mention its armament.
Why not 90 Heavy Turbos , 90 Turbos and 90 Ion cannons ?

If I'm able to get a replacement for the 3200-range, I will probably revisit this ship, but not until then. Basically, I'm working with the models I have. Ideally:

Praetor (Procurator) is a nice warship and I like it .That's why I say make it more powerful.

Frankly, I'd be very happy to see all these 4 Dreadnoughts in the mod !!!
If you have all these models, why you decided not to put all of them in ??

Edited by 8492nd, 22 November 2007 - 09:38 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

So how exactly did you get the idea for the armament ? I mean , how do you know it has 120 Turbolasers and 120 Ion cannons ? Wookieepedia does not mention its armament.
Why not 90 Heavy Turbos , 90 Turbos and 90 Ion cannons ?

I basically just doubled the armament of the Imperial-class; it's completely arbitrary. There's no reason why it couldn't be what you said (other than balance at this point).

Frankly, I'd be very happy to see all these 4 Dreadnoughts in the mod !!!
If you have all these models, why you decided not to put all of them in ??

That's the problem - I don't.

[8492nd]

Frankly, I'd be very happy to see all these 4 Dreadnoughts in the mod !!!
If you have all these models, why you decided not to put all of them in ??

That's the problem - I don't.

But there must be some other models you have. EvilleJedi must have some, too.
http://empireatwar.f...dels_Pack;83712
There are some nice models in this pack, too. They are in ALO format. Have DDS textures and some of them even have death animation .
But I don't know , It's your Choice.

Hi Phoenix,

Great mod. It should be a great improvement on EaW.

My apologies in advance if I've mixed something up, but doesn't EvilleJedi already have some of these models? This one seems to be Giel's Star Battleship. Unless of course he hasn't released it yet.

It has been released. I saw it in a mod. The FoC Sapce AddOn. It is the Admonitor's model !
But with a little XML editing, I managed to put it into mass production.

Edited by 8492nd, 23 November 2007 - 09:55 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

My apologies in advance if I've mixed something up, but doesn't EvilleJedi already have some of these models? This one seems to be Giel's Star Battleship. Unless of course he hasn't released it yet.

Yes, he has some of them, but his model packs haven't been updated in over a year, so I'll have to contact him directly. I've just been waiting to bug him until we have a playable release so he doesn't think he's wasting his time.

It would be nice if the Praetor was a bit larger, not least because 3200m mark seems to be more appropriate for an Imperial Star Cruiser class.

Wait, wait... star cruisers are smaller or less armed than star destroyers. Star battlecruiser is the next one up. The MC80s are star cruisers.

Is it really necessary for the Independence and Praetor to be direct counterparts? I mean your average Mon Cal cruiser is 400m shorter than an Imperator, and the rebels don't have anything remotely close to an Executor or Sovereign, so it would be nice if the Praetor was of genuine Star Battlecruiser size and power rather than being even shorter than the Independence.

The Rebels are already severly undergunned on dreadnoughts, so yes. Remember that the same faction becomes the New Republic depending on the timeline. Like I said above, if I can get more models, the Praetor will be revisited.

If you look through the Units page, almost nothing has stayed unchanged since the mini-mod - everything's continually evolving towards its true representation, unified in XW values. I just cracked Rebellion's stats system the other week and look what that yielded for the CC-9600. Boy did I get that wrong in the mini-mod (CC-7700 was only slightly off), but it's better now. The bottom line is that there is no other mod out there that is more dedicated to accuracy than this one.

Can you also check the model of the Republic (SD)? I might be wrong, but it seems to me that, if an enemy ship is to starboard, both the port and starboard batteries will engage, which probably means (effectively) that the port battery is firing through the hull.

Good spot. It was doing that, but I've since fixed it.

There are some nice models in this pack, too. They are in ALO format.

Unfortunately, ALO format doesn't work for me.

[8492nd]

Unfortunately, ALO format doesn't work for me.

What format do you need ? I've been searching models For 2 days, and I'll do it again !

[Ghostrider]

All I want to know is where did the empire get the money for all these concepts.

Post yavin we have...
So - procurator and praetor - each with a development cost

Then Superior as a fore-runner of the Executor.

Executor (making 2 or 3 was said to have almost bankrupted the empire) and these are small compared to what came later.

Are we to assume that the R&D costs for the following projects was conveniently hidden in the executor project instead?

Death Star II

Galaxy Gun

World Devastators

Eclipse I (how did they keep THAT a secret)

Eclipse II

Soverign.

That is a whopping load of hidden research.... and it took 19 years to get the money to go from Imp I to Imp II.
Then in a few years - wow.

I mean it's not too bad upgrading an existing hull but massive amounts of money are needed to design a new class - especially on such massive scales.

Not to mention the lancer and all the fighter upgrades, and the dull stuff like strike cruiser...

Wherever you look the empire pops up with a hidded research lab with a new 'super weapon'
Where did Palpatine get the money!

[Phoenix Rising]

Well actually, I meant the term in the sense of the Imperial classification system.

Ah, is that Saxton's work? Normally I side with him, even when it contradicts canon, but this just adds to the confusion (there aren't even any Imperial examples). I guess I can see the Home One type as an "Imperial star cruiser," but not the Liberty - it's far too weak. The problem is that with SW classifications, destroyers are larger than cruisers:

Cruiser: A ship that strikes a balance between firepower, speed, shielding, and fighters, optimized for self-reliance.
Destroyer: A large warship, often optimized around attack rather than defensive capability.

This is opposite of the real world to which Saxton is trying to conform. Fortunately I use the standard classification, so I don't have to deal with this.

Sure, makes sense, as a balance issue. The only thing I'd add are the differences in military philosophy - the Empire is all about the big ships, and had the budget & political will to build the big ships, whereas, realistically, as you pointed out yourself, the rebels/NR are better off avoiding complications like the superlaser through fighters.

While this is true historically, that context is less important for the mod since you as the player get to pick what to build.

This does bring me to a question though, has production of the Independence been toned down?

What the AI builds seems to be a balance of auto-resolve health, damage, and cost (and perhaps population cost). Whenever I increase the credits, the AI always builds more dreadnoughts.

What format do you need ? I've been searching models For 2 days, and I'll do it again !

Generally I get things in OBJ or 3DS and import them, but MAX would work too. The problem with ALO is that most people rig them wrong for what I need and I can't change them. Fortunately almost all of the ships in that model pack are available from Warlords, so it doesn't matter.

All I want to know is where did the empire get the money for all these concepts.

Well, Procurators are from the Clone Wars - they fought alongside Mandators - so that would put them at 19 BBY at the latest (realistically earlier). Praetors (judging from the definition) are the follow-up to the Procurator design and a precursor to the Executor with the well for the central superstructure. I would place them at 10 BBY or later. The Superior (you can debate the canonicity of this one, but I like it) is the counterpart design to the Executor, both <0 BBY.

At any rate, I would bet that for some of the more conventional stuff, the manufacturers fronted a lot of the research costs in exchange for a contract to buy a lot of them. But then many of the companies were "Imperialized" too, so I'm not sure they were even profiting off Imperial sales. I don't know, but something like that seems reasonable.

I don't think the Imperial II was a matter of budget so much as design though, probably stemming more from field use than anything else. It was probably determined that after 20 years, the main battery wasn't powerful enough, the shields weren't strong enough, and the hyperdrive was too slow and they had the technology to update it, so why not.

[Phoenix Rising]

Yeah, the Allegiance is the only one that would fit that's not background art in some comic, but still, it's not explicitly stated. Personally, I think "battlecruiser" makes a little more sense than "star cruiser", as in Bulwark-class Battlecruiser, but I don't write the books... yet .

Until someone can come up with a Rebellion-style complement system for EaW, complements in PR will remain a game mechanic and nothing more. That means first variant ships get first variant fighters. Believe me, the Executor is deadly enough by itself.

[8492nd]

What format do you need ? I've been searching models For 2 days, and I'll do it again !

Generally I get things in OBJ or 3DS and import them, but MAX would work too. The problem with ALO is that most people rig them wrong for what I need and I can't change them. Fortunately almost all of the ships in that model pack are available from Warlords, so it doesn't matter.

Well then, what's the problem ? are you going to to add any of them to the mod or it's too late ?

Another thing, have you seen Return of the Clones mod?
It has a Capital Ship named Republic Star Destroyer. (It's not the Venator. the Venator is called: Republic Attack Cruiser).
I saw its model on a site. It is called Valiant-class Cruiser. And it's file has three contents. An OPT file , a SHP file , a Readme document and a DAT file.
So the mod leader must have converted them somehow , or must have used its converted version.
I don't know anything about these formats but it may be of some use if you visit the site.There are some other warships too.www.bluephantom.de