38 replies to this topic

[Casen]

And this is precisely the problem.

You don't know, so no one is right or wrong.

Which is precisely why I simply tend to not get involved.

People naturally need to take a side, we crave some sort of conflict in some way due to the way our brains are wired.

[Hostile]

I trully and seriously take the stand when I say I no longer care if they torture people to get info from terrorists. Makes no difference to me anymore. I'm so fed up with trying to be the good guys. As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care.

Selfish, I suppose. If you meddle with terrorists, you get what you deserve. I'll stay out of the discussion because it is irrelevant for me to be here.

[MSpencer]

"As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care" is perhaps the single phrase which has condoned millions of atrocities across the world for the last four thousand years. It's sickening. If you want human rights, and you want to wave the flag for human rights across the world, first you have to look at your own damn country.
And if you support psychologically torturing people to find out if there may or may not be another terrorist attack, in order to get unreliable coerced information out of people which not only won't stand up in court but probably won't even be correct. The fact of the matter is that people talk when they're being threatened with continued torture. The reason why the police in the United States don't allow coercion is because it produces phony results.
I ran across a story on the BBC the other day about a UK citizen detained at Guantanamo. Apparently he's psychologically near the breaking point, and has been tortured using American hands-off torture techniques for the last three years. An independent British doctor believes he is near suicide, and his MP brought the entire ordeal up in front of the Commons (I'm looking for the article, but so far, nothing).

The fact of the matter is that this is certainly torture. They've described the methods used, and when this was done under Pol Pot's regime, it was torture according to the US government. However, I guess you can just convince yourself that it's not by running away from the discussion and covering your ears. Apparently we don't torture people as long as we don't know about it then?
Again, how is this even a legitimate political blog if the opponent doesn't show up? How is this supposed to be valid if the opponent doesn't even deem the topic valid enough to discuss? I've got severe doubts about this entire operation...

[Casen]

As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care.

That sort of mentality is bad.

Well, actually, it depends.

In this case it's bad, as with many other cases.

It's only good when used against...well you know I can't get more specific or I'd have to state every single case.

[CodeCat]

Silly man, don't you realise you're a drive by poster? You come into conversations and drop 2 sentence forums bombs and leave. Notice most of your thoughts are spammy and have no material or thoughts behind them. Why even post if you have nothing to contribute?

I don't see you contribute much more beyond flame bait either, so shut it.

[Hostile]

"As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care" is perhaps the single phrase which has condoned millions of atrocities across the world for the last four thousand years. It's sickening. If you want human rights, and you want to wave the flag for human rights across the world, first you have to look at your own damn country.
And if you support psychologically torturing people to find out if there may or may not be another terrorist attack, in order to get unreliable coerced information out of people which not only won't stand up in court but probably won't even be correct. The fact of the matter is that people talk when they're being threatened with continued torture. The reason why the police in the United States don't allow coercion is because it produces phony results.
I ran across a story on the BBC the other day about a UK citizen detained at Guantanamo. Apparently he's psychologically near the breaking point, and has been tortured using American hands-off torture techniques for the last three years. An independent British doctor believes he is near suicide, and his MP brought the entire ordeal up in front of the Commons (I'm looking for the article, but so far, nothing).

The fact of the matter is that this is certainly torture. They've described the methods used, and when this was done under Pol Pot's regime, it was torture according to the US government. However, I guess you can just convince yourself that it's not by running away from the discussion and covering your ears. Apparently we don't torture people as long as we don't know about it then?
Again, how is this even a legitimate political blog if the opponent doesn't show up? How is this supposed to be valid if the opponent doesn't even deem the topic valid enough to discuss? I've got severe doubts about this entire operation...

Maybe it has alot to do with the fact I'm working WAY (60+ hours a week six days a week) too much because of the Christmas season and am too tired to care. Right now I really don't care, maybe I'll care after Christmas. Tell me your way of getting information from captured terrorists. Tell me a better way. I'm all ears honestly.

@CodeCat It's a forum so it's kinda hard to tell someone to shut up and not have people laugh at you. *points and laughs at CodeCat*

[CodeCat]

*laughs with Hostile*

[Casen]

Opposite sides of the same coin...

[duke_Qa]

http://timesonline.c...icle3086937.ece

no matter my opinions on what has been going on, it would be a grand pleasure for me to see Bush and his cronies get busted out of office for war-crimes

probably that "i hope as many as possible get hurt in that firestorm" emotion together with "karma is a biatch isn't it?"

Edited by duke_Qa, 24 December 2007 - 01:54 PM.

[Hostile]

Regarding the US election, I don't think it's wise to have a democrat President right now.

[duke_Qa]

wouldn't be any wiser in my opinion to have someone who walks in Bush's footsteps.

I like it when politicians are honorable enough to not throw the first rock. that is probably my core problem with Republican neoconservative unilateral way of life. not that the democrats are any better in the long run, they are still right wing.

my hope at the moment has gone from Hillary to Obama. he might be a noob, but he seems to be the one most willing to force through some changes in US policy. and on top of that, the argument that a black semi-Muslim can become president in the USA would be a propaganda-blow towards the islamists like no other.

[MSpencer]

Regarding the US election, I don't think it's wise to have a democrat President right now.

With your previously stated opinion that whatever I say doesn't matter, and that you basically don't care enough to come up with valid replies, how is this even a remotely valid opinion?
I really, really don't think it is. You can't just say "Well I win" every time and expect me to take you seriously. At least try to back up your opinions; even AOWR was able to defend his opinions.

[Hostile]

Don't get your panties in a bundle, I simply cannot think of one viable candidate for president who is a democrat. Clinton? Obama? Edwards?

You seriously want one of those people calling the shots? I'm telling you McCain/Lieberman for the win.

[MSpencer]

I'm asking you if you honestly think your opinions are valid if you're not willing to back them up, and if, upon being called out on that, you say that the opposition is clearly wrong and that everything is self-explanatory.
Give me a break. This is clearly just a joke to you.

[Hostile]

Back what up? I've not presented any facts. I expressed my opinion. I think McCain/Lieberman ticket would be my ideal choice. Both are moderates and work well together and with other parties. Also neither want to cut and run from Iraq.

Am I supposed to back up my "opinion" or am I simply allowed to have one?

[MSpencer]

Your opinion, in a place of debate, is supposed to be logically backed up by facts.
You're also avoiding the fact that every time you initiate a debate, and I respond, you always try to deflect by saying you're making jokes, and that it doesn't affect you.
Basically, you're running a comedy blog. The only thing is, it's not supposed to be comedy, most of the comedy is blatantly offencive, and the only real humour comes at the lunacy of the entire situation.
If it continues, I quit. You call this a serious political discussion forum, but you haven't, and you won't begin, to take this seriously, so let me ask you; why should I give you my talents if I can't get decent responses from one of the people who is supposed to set the tempo? If you're not going to take it seriously, nobody else will either, and the traffic we get here will be doomed to the curse of the Think Tank.

[Hostile]

My opinion is my opinion based on how I currently feel. I currently feel a democrat president in office will be a great sign for terrorists to up the anty and force the withdrawl of American forces from hotspots, where they are most needed ATM. Which if the democrats are telling the truth, is exactly what they would do. This will embolden the enemy further. (unless democrats are lying about pulling out of Iraq)

I know you're an angry person and will reply with lots of yelling and screaming, but I still find no problem with waterboarding. I simply don't. We train our own CIA and FBI people by "waterboarding them."

I also don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'll go easy on you. Your scientific posts are boring. I don't understand them, neither does anyone else and that is why few people reply. Which is fine. It's your space and you can do with it what you will. Where as mine is politics smothered in a good healthy dose of cynicism. I use comedy to make points some people are afraid to talk about.

And we both know who's section gets more views and replies per article.

If you quit, it's your choice. Yet you said the same of narbozza when he said he was gonna pick up his toys and go home as well. Do what you want dude, it's your choice.

And don't forget, I take my comedy as seriously as I take my politics. Well thought out, and with a deep undertone in order to properly stimulate the neurons.

One mans point of view is another mans sarcasm
one mans sarcasm is another mans joke
and another mans joke is another mans point of view.

Sometimes I do use exaggeration to convey my point of view and then some.

Remember my joke, if you don't get it, you're the scientist.

Lighten up dude. Life doesn't need to be taken that serious despite how serious the topic. We're all allowed to warm up now and then, even if the scientist doesn't get the joke.

[Cossack]

A few days ago the Canadian Foreign affairs ministry accidentaly released a list of countries they believe may be practicing torture. Among China, Iran, and Syria and others, Isreal and the United States were on that list.

Unfortunately the conservative bafoons we have in power immediately stated that the list mistakingly "contains a list that wrongly includes some of our closest allies." And are now in the process of re-writing it.

Who gives a shit whether they are our allies or not....doesn't change the fact that they torture people.

Im pissed at the fact that two countries who claim to fight for freedom and justice constantly disobey the Geneva convention and other international laws.

But what I'm more pissed at is the fact US allies are too afraid call them out for it. The only people who ever call out the US are people dubbed "radicals". Its about time a respectable government seriously critisizes US foreign policy...and just as I though it was going to be Canada, those U.S. pandering conservative bastards bow into pressure and prove once again that they are America's little bitches.

[Blodo]

Its about time a respectable government seriously critisizes US foreign policy...and just as I though it was going to be Canada, those U.S. pandering conservative bastards bow into pressure and prove once again that they are America's little bitches.

The moment they do they will be dubbed radicals and terrorist states as well by the american media, and consequently most of the world. It's unbelievable how single sided everything is nowadays.